13,520 Garden Web Discussions | Perennials
Ah well, I am with Ken to a point, having also moved to 5 acres.....but, I have gone into a strangely experimental mode where I am inclined to forgive myself all failures since I have been cut entirely adrift from all prevailing trends, whims, visions and proven methods. I really haven't a clue where I am going with this but at the same time, I am insanely excited to be completely free from any demands, ideals, aspirations......all stuff which has dogged me in the past, often rendering gardening quite demoralising and upsetting when I have failed to live up to my exacting standards (always difficult when battling an innate idleness). Being on a public allotment brought out a previously hidden (family disagree) competitive streak in me and I had very clear ideas of what I wanted to achieve....and some years I did (but the work, the effort, the stress!). However, 5 acres of neglected plantation and no money......well, all bets are off, I can do as I like and no-one expects anything much. I do....but a lot of it will be out of my hands - I am just introducing some variety and standing back to watch the battle for world domination. Welsh poppies, hesperis matronalis, lunaria redivia....what can possibly go wrong?
I would have to say that death and attrition were never very far away in my gardens anyway .....I have killed many, many more plants than I care to recount, some mourned (briefly) while others departed on the end of a fork.....or trodden to death....or froze, shrivelled, starved, beheaded by hoe, died of a broken heart. I became callous and hard-hearted years ago when I had teenagers.
Like you I have come to take a "tough love" approach
===>>> those that have answered are not newbs in any sense ... and i was trying to talk at peeps who worry.. and fret..
and i am not equating it with tough love..
what i am trying to express ... is emotional reaction ...
its all about.. why worry about it ... or as doris day once said:
Que Sera Sera === whatever will be.. will ... the future is not ours to see ...
you plant things.. you nurture them.. and if they die.. so be it.. they can burn in hell for eternity ... lol ...
but i am not going to waste good energy.. 'worrying' about them... oh.. i will contemplate such ... thats what we do in winter.... otherwise we would all be suicidal in the great white north in winter ... lol ...
but i am not going to WORRY ... as per the title... it IS... truly is.. an attitude ....
am i making any sense ...????
ken
ps: mom used to walk around the house humming this song when i was a kid.. but not in the A line dresses .. lol .... and i apparently still know the words by heart .... i presume.. we probably had watched her sitcom of which it was the theme ... back when kids could actually watch TV without ... oh never mind ....
Here is a link that might be useful: link
I'm hoping for holes in my beds because I have sown so many milk jugs (Winter Sowing) this winter that I will have to be moving lots of things around. I will probably just make a whole new bed for the new seedlings to grow in until they need transplanting to a permanent space. I plan to tear out LOTS of purple and white cone flowers ---- they are taking over several beds. I will relegate them all to one hill where I have those and black-eyed susans. It is a steep hill and is hard for me to weed.
So now JUST GO AWAY, SNOW.
I am a zone pusher, so I figure I will lose many things that have/would have survived in past winters. This winter up is much colder than past years. I am watching ground temps at a local university farm, and January's was 6 or so degrees colder than last year. The only zone pusher I would be devastated at losing are my black and blue salvias. One is a few years old, so I hope it is ok. I have 5-6 new ones. Otherwise.....I have a lot of seeds for new flowers and am wintersowing a lot. I just need to know soon who survived. :)
My praecox is a thug with thickness to what sprawls. Bloom is not much to get excited about, but the width and rambling is good. It'll go for the sun (run out or up whichever way it can get it's tips to the sun). It'll also do a decent job of overtaking whatever it's in it's way. Large leaves with lots of side branching.
My rooguchi does have the 'cute' little blooms. It's not near as sturdy of a vine though. It's my first one up in the spring and grows fast up I'm not sure it'd handle roaming around on it's own and bet it's competition. (I have mine on an upright support structure).
My durandii is a sweetheart. But I have it going both up and also rambling in a bed setting. It's not near the length, width nor fighter the praecox is though. I'm not sure it would do well and what you wanting in the setting you're thinking it for.
I will surely be letting C.flammula free and, having seen C.cirrhosa running wild in Greece, I might let that loose on the sunnier south-facing bank into the dry ditch (apart from when the Yare overtops).
Interesting responses.....would say the jury was still out so should be worth a punt.
Keep in mind that your climate is much more pleasant than mine, but 'Crystal Lake' is one of the few geraniums I have been unhappy with. It is a very slow, weak grower and seems to sulk in "heat" (here defined as anything other than idyllic springtime temperatures). Blooms are tiny, about one-third the size of 'Rozanne'. For me, it starts flowering late August-early September and never seems to have more than one flower open at a time. Not exactly a high impact plant, lol!
I bought 'Crystal Lake' for its color, but I should have spent my money on more Geranium himalayense 'Derrick Cook' instead. This one is more of a groundcover/border geranium rather than a scrambler/weaver, but the color is almost the same as 'Crystal Lake' in flowers about 5x larger. The plants are vigorous and it flowers heavily from late May through July here. If it were available on this side of the pond, I would plant 'Lilac Ice' in a heartbeat. This is a tissue culture mutation of 'Rozanne' with pale silvery lilac blooms. 'Rozanne' might now be ubiquitous, but for me it is still one of the most perfect and vigorous and floriferous and adaptable.
Let us know how 'Crystal Lake' does for you. My experiences could just be a fluke! :-)
mmmmm Lilac Ice.....I have that one lined up too (to go underneath a fabulous hulthemia rose, Eyes for You) but the CL was a bargain on another order.
I think it was an earlier report of yours Isphahan, which prompted me to query this cultivar.
G.himalayense.....I have none of these (nor any G.maculatum either) but now I have more space........
The Trollius ledebouri I grew from seed via winter sowing 4+ years ago appears happy where it's planted in part sun at the northwest corner of my garden. The soil is sandy loam; the plants get no supplemental water. I mulch heavily over corrugated cardboard so my plants don't compete with weeds or encroaching brambles.
According to Larry Hodgson's book 'Perennials for Every Purpose:' "Cool and wet. Those are the conditions you need if you want to succeed with globeflowers." Included under that heading is Trollius x cultorum although 'Alabaster' is not mentioned specifically by cultivar name.
Mulch may explain why I've had no issues with self-seeding. I do enjoy the cheerful blooms early in the season, more particularly because they attract pollinators and don't appear to be bothered by pests.
For me, Trollius x cultorum (mine is 'Cheddar'...I think) has been very slow. Even in a shady area that is almost always moist it has been weak. The foliage looks terrible after blooming, which is why it is planted amongst other things, used almost like a spring ephemeral.
It's a bit of a toss-up. Your T. cultorum would probably prefer the damp/shady area to its current home if it is that dry. BUT I'm not sure if it could stand up to more rampant neighbors. I wouldn't chance it myself, but in your situation it may prove more vigorous.
I know it's not what you asked about but...Trollius chinensis ('Golden Queen') is extremely stout and could easily contend with your wild plants. For years I stayed away from Globeflowers because the tag and book blurbs of their requirements always made them seem fussy. This guy isn't at all. It's even braved a root-y area that dries out easily. It seeds around a bit, which I am more than fine with.
CMK
Actually, there is a really mannerly and charming white vinca minor 'Gertrude Jekyll' which has the virtue of being both floriferous and reticent....not a lawn smotherer......but not totally without some attempts at takeover. A nifty lawnmower usually puts paid to world domination attempts.
Yours are probably 2's or 3's which are the more common types in cold zones. Type 2's are large flowered and bloom in mid-May to mid-June here. In areas where they are less likely to die down to the ground, they bloom in the spring on the previous year's vines and in the fall on the current season's growth, but my growing season doesn't seem to be long enough, as none of mine have ever bloomed a second time. Type 3 bloom after that on new growth only, so cutting them back hard every year helps to encourage flowering lower on the plant. I have various ones that bloom mid-June through mid-August, and there are some that bloom later than that. I prune both my type 2's and 3's the same way since the cold kills my vines to the snow line every year, but folks in warmer areas mostly prune type 2's lightly after the spring bloom. The type 1's that are cold hardy here have a different bloom shape, and since they only bloom on last year's growth, I only prune if needed and only right after they are done blooming. All varieties will bloom unpruned, but proper pruning will make for better blooming for some.
Type 1 Clematis Stolwijk Gold
From May 25, 2011
Type 2: Guernsey Cream and HF Young
From clematis
From clematis
Type 3 Betty Corning are the lighter bells and Viola is the deep purple
From June 22, 2013
Hi Ginnier, So glad you've been enjoying it! I love my mom's easy writing style. It's A Heron's Garden.
Here is a link that might be useful: Heron's Garden Blog
thats not very warm ... especially on a plant that comes up pretty late.. after the soil warms in my z5 garden ....
but more importantly ... are they under supplemental light..
or are you playing near an ice cold window [in a cold house].. hoping for sun on a regular basis in mid winter???
also... i dont understand your media replacement system ... i would probably near bare root them ... not just a bigger pot.. with more media in the bottom ... that is how i avoided salt build up ...
also.. the flushing may have saturated them too much ... and cold air.. plus cold wet roots isnt great either ....
so long story short.. i think you have temp/heat and light issues ...
you started them awful early,.. did you save any seed, in case of failure.. if so.. why not start a few more ....???
finally .. as a perennial.. i probably would have winter sowed them outdoors ... or straight into the soil in fall ... rather than trying to mess with growing perennials from seed indoors .... have you done such before????
ken
Thank you for your response Ken.
Sorry I wasn't clear about what I did when I shifted them. I lifted the original root "balls" (not tightly packed) out of the old pots and put them into new pots filled with Pro-Mix, then flushed the new pots in hopes of removing the remaining salts or whatever. When I was devising my plan, I did worry about too much moisture and too large of pots, so I downsized the new pots a bit. The old pots and media are sitting out in the hoop house while I debate whether it's safer to dump the potting mix in the garden or in the alley. I'm thinking the alley, lol.
It's interesting that Bleeding Hearts come up late in your area. One of the main causes of failure in Cheyenne (6,000'+) is they come up way too early (maybe April or so) and get hit with fairly hard frosts, often through the middle of May, sometimes through the first of June. Mine are on the north side of the house and don't wake up nearly as early as some people's do. Even so, they get flattened every few years. Our nighttime temps aren't reliably above 50 degrees until July or August (though the day temps do average 80-ish then), which is why I was wondering if I might need to give the seedlings a chilling.
I do like to winter sow many of the perennials I want for my own yard. Much less work! For our spring plant sale, though, I start a variety of perennials in the fall or winter. The foliage tends to stay pretty low. I'm supposing it doesn't get leggy in the short winter days (no supplemental light for these guys) because the temps are low, too. The roots, on the other hand, seem to grow really well. Potting things up as the roots start showing out the bottom (not on stuff like Mirabilis multiflora or Callirhoe involucrata - yeesh!) keeps me busy. If we get any warmth in April, the foliage usually catches up to the roots in time for the sale.
Oh, nope, no extra seed. I collected it in 2011 or 2012 and promptly forgot about it. I didn't have much hope they'd even come up, and figured I had nothing to lose :)
Depending on the weather, my projects are either in the east-facing patio we enclose in the winter (sun from the north, east and some south) or in the west-facing sun room (sun from the south, west and north). When it's 20-something below zero at night, the patio is 20-something below, too, lol. The coldest I've seen the sun room this year was 7 degrees above zero. I bring things like geranium and dahlia seedlings in pretty much every night. The hardier perennials may or may not come in if the weather is supposed to be mild.
So, long story short :), it sounds like if we ever get some warmer weather, the Bleeding Hearts might wake up and get back to growing :) Thanks again!
Lingholm are soundly perennial ( but fleeting in bloom) while a few of the sterile group are reliably perennial too (although expensive because they can only be vegetatively propagated). Even some of the monocarpic ones have such glorious evergreen (or gold, rather) foliage....and once they do flower, they set tons of seed.
Yes, I feel the madness coming on again.
Growing Meconopsis in a climate that is not suitable for them usually leads to disappointment. I succeeded in getting some in flower in my Dutch garden (climate reasonably similar to Cambridge, UK) but the colour wasn't the fantastic blue you see in many pictures but a wishy-washy blue with some purple-pink streaks. This colouring is caused by too high a temperature. Also the flowering period was very short. I think there are better garden plants.
I have a friend who couldn't get anything to grow under his mature arborvitae and I gave him some divisions of Epimedium rubrum which have not only taken hold under the trees, they have spread nicely. It is a groundcover that can take the drought in the summer and also deal with shade and tree roots. As a bonus is has early spring flowers that bloom around daffodil time. Ken is right about planting under trees, don't try cutting out the tree's roots to plant something - it only stimulates the roots to grow back quickly. If you hit an extra thick 'rooty' spot while digging, don't chop at the spot to plant something, just try another spot to dig a hole to plant in.
Epimedium is sometimes called 'Barrenwort" probably because it can grow in fairly barren looking areas where not much else grows.
Ken is right about planting under trees, don't try cutting out the tree's roots to plant something - it only stimulates the roots to grow back quickly.
Merely for comparison/contrast purposes, I designed a gardenbed that curved along the edges of my driveway and a granite walkway, under the branches of a mature crabapple tree. I struggled to dig planting holes for the perennials I envisioned adding a softening effect to contrast with the hardscaping. I got frustrated whenever I encountered a tree root blocking a planting hole...until my senior/mature gardening neighbor pointed out that the tree wasn't dependent upon that one root for its survival. Judging by the health of my garden many years later, he apparently knew what he was talking about.
The bed is nearly 100% filled in since the above photo was taken a half dozen years ago.