13,520 Garden Web Discussions | Perennials
So where you infected plants on your site for more then a year?
The impatien issue is amazing. I had the most lush impatiens last year ( i was never a fan before that)... then over a few days they all lost their leaves as if it had frosted during the night. Might try the new g types next year to see what happens.
A small number of Echinacea were held over from the previous year, but those are kept in a different location and weren't brought to the retail bench until aster yellows was already present on the current season's batch. (I should clarify I'm talking my day job here, as my own nursery currently doesn't sell Echinacea)
IDM is devastating. I noticed it at work this year, it's a problem that is just appearing in WI. Indeed, from a distance before you got close enough to see the characteristics, it looked like we had a frost in August.
The Plant Geek
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-plant geek, wonderful info. Thanks much for sharing.
-Eric, Good question. Hope someone comes along with more experience that can help sort that out.
My thoughts on it...I worked at a nursery last year and the manager said some things did very poorly (arbs for one, go figure!) at over wintering because they were from CA. Not sure if there were other circumstances involved for their poor ability to overwinter (like late planting, etc).
I'm not sure how long it takes a plant to evolve enough change the hardiness and genetic makeup of it. Evolution like that takes time, but I would think awhile? Like hundreds/thousands of years, each generation passing the traits onto the next?
I would think the nursery source is something like growing hardy plants in a hothouse. Hardy plants grown in a hothouse need hardening off, but once they are they can be planted outside and survive. The cold hardines is still hardwired into them, so once they get over the initial change of temperature shock they are okay. I would imagine it would theoretically take hundreds/thousands of years of growing in that hothouse to end up REQUIRING those conditions? Just thinking out loud here I guess, lol.
I think the case of the Cercis is relating to "disjunct" plants. Populations of plants had a wider range some thousands of years ago because of warmer temps, then when things began to cool some groups developed a greater cold tolerance than those of the main populations we see today. These separate groups are known as "disjunct". Think it can also happen the other way too, some isolated groups can develop a greater heat tolerance over the years.
Guess it really all depends on where the original source it came from, if it was one of the colder or warmer groups! There was a great article about this in the Jan/Feb 2012 issue of Horticulture magazine...
CMK
Provenence is one of those misunderstood factors. Provenence is important if talking about wild collected material. It can make a big difference if a plant is collected at 2000' elevation and say again at 10000' elevation. The plant at the higher elevation is likely to be more tolerant of cold. Same with a wide ranging species. Collect one in Florida and one in Minnesota. Which one will (probably) be more cold hardy? Now make a selection based on that one collected in MN and grow it in FL, CA, GA, WI, or wherever. Besides acclimating to the current season (you wouldn't bring a plant from CA to WI in March and expect it to survive without protection for example) it will have the hardiness of its original provenance. So Oregon grown nursery stock of Cercis canadensis MN strain will be just as hardy in MN as nursery stock grown in MN.
Easiest thing to remember is provenance is the plants origin, not where it was grown. They're 2 completely different things.
The Plant Geek
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It is really pretty and looks beautiful mixed with the daisies. It sure looks mildew free, that is my complaint of the flocks, have tried different things, some work and some dont. I keep them because they are so tall and look great with the other shorter flowers. thank-you for the pic. Tricia
I've been lucky, I guess...mine have done really well. They got really bad rust their 2nd year, and the other poster is right, they don't grow back lushly when cut back hard (well, maybe they do if you give them water and fertilizer at the time...but I didn't). Last year, however, they were fabulous...and HUGE. I think they are really variable, depending on what the weather is like that year. She definitely likes to be well-watered. Stress from drying out seems to trigger rust
Here's one plant to from my garden last summer...Geranium 'Rozanne' is just to the left of 'Ann Folkard'.
-patty, lol! Same here. Year 2007 was "The Year of the Tulip" for me!! Never again...
-Scotty, so interesting you also found her rusty. Thought it was just because mine was in too much shade. Thanks for sharing you findings. Ps. love your blog! Go there for picture-pick-me-ups when I'm in a funk ;-)
CMK
While they definitely need lots of water...they aren't as prone to crisping up as Rodgersias are...at least for me. I'd definitely put them in shade and water generously until you get a feel for how they like it in your conditions. I've had mine for 2 years...and the leaves aren't huge yet...about the size of dinner plates last year. Still...the shape is really nice. The biggest problem I've had with them is protecting them from slugs when they are emerging.
C. obliqua 'Alba' and C. glabra are 2 different plants. Obliqua 'Alba' is a white form of C. obliqua and very prone to mildew. C. glabra is taller, has narrower leaves, likes slightly more moisture, and I haven't ever seen mildew on mine. I grow and sell C. glabra 'Black Ace' and it's a wonderful variety with somewhat darker foliage. Supposedly emerges with black stems. Black may be an overstatement of color. It's more smoky green. C. glabra isn't as dense as C. lyonii 'Hot Lips'. 'Hot Lips' (which I have grown for more than 10 years and also sell) isn't aggressive or invasive, but give it room. Clumps can reach 5' wide. All of them likek partial shade and plenty of moisture. They tend to grow in wet woodland edges or stream banks. C. glabra is more sun tolerant, and I often find it growing wild along streams amongst grasses and blue lobelia. All turtle heads are definitely under-used. 'Hot Lips' was in the running for PPA Perennial of the year, but lost out.
The Plant Geek
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I use local fences 5' high around garden areas or even welded wire circles around individual roses or plants. The fences are not attractive but at least let me enjoy my plants. I have deer constantly but they don't bother my one Phlox paniculata, which is in an area not near any edible plants they visit, and by the driveway. I'm actually buying some new Phlox paniculata plants this year, but they would be inside fenced areas. I am also planning on growing some P. divaricata and pilosa from seed, and was also hoping to add some annual Phlox drummondii as a ground covering carpet near my apple trees, would deer bother these if unfenced? I know deer in different parts of the country bother different plants, on the east coast I understand they eat daylilies but have never bothered mine. I also have them eat my regular roses but they don't bother my rugosa roses.
I think poppies are not generally eaten by deer, but they are probably not fragrant. I'm getting a plant of Stylophorum diphyllum which has a low clumping form and is covered with yellow flowers in spring. Oriental poppies have large but not fragrant blooms.
There are some oreganos that have nice flowers, not on par with Phlox paniculata, but attractive anyway. I haven't had deer eat any of them. I think Nepeta and Calamintha also are not eaten by deer. I had some Agastache rugosa I started from seed last year that bloomed well by fall, some were 4+ feet tall, and Agastaches are supposed to be deer resistant, but I left my wire fence open by mistake and deer got in and ate the flowers off some, see blog photos. You can see some of my fences in the photos.
Here is a link that might be useful: Agastache rugosa
CMK wrote: I would very much love to see your stealth garden if you have pics.
"My" guerrilla garden in the public park is larger in area than any garden I tend on my own property!
(I will post a picture or two in the near future...thanks for your interest).
We don't stay young forever and if you're the one doing all your own gardening one can't expand forever without up keep getting rather difficult. As for myself It's always been about that coveted plant for a special spot. Building a back bone of long living plants. Adding fillers to complement add grace and movement. As their all beginning to grow and fill in I've asked myself the same question. Will I be just as pleased when the challenge of getting that spot that just isn't working to become pleasing to the eye. Will I enjoy the beauty and be happy pulling weeds, adding compost, deadheading, ect. There will always be a plant to add and a death in the plant family here and there. How much will I miss the challenge? A spot that needs height and softening. Fun
You could always give them a call to see if you could still get the discount. Last year i ordered a bunch under a nice discount... then a few days later after the sale was over... called them back and asked if i could add more to the order under the same discount. They were more to happy to do so. They are a great company and i have received nice plants the couple of times i have ordered from them.
It won't hurt to ask! Especially since they send out the sale emails a lot.
I'm in northern Illinois, In a normal year it's up and ready to flower in May If cut back by half to 1/3 rd you'll get much stronger stems or she'll be flat on the ground when it rains later on. Then I'll let it flower away for awhile. May be once a month trim another couple inches to keep tidy. Only takes a couplle of minutes. Few years ago I got a nice Blacken Decker Cordless Trimmer for Chirstmas. Yeah! It's the only way I can keep up with the clems and kalimeris Devided mine imto 40 plants three years ago. This is just what I do with them.It's the only plant that I shape this way. My expirence with kalimeris, while it dosn't need to much water, it's NOT drought tolerant. I let 10 go mostly unwatered in the drought this year. Their dead! Easy to start new ones. So not a problem. Here's a nother pic with some to the side. Should have mentioned I also trim trim to control size by year three can get kind of large if happy. Hope you enjoy yours.
OK, I got curious and did some Googling as to where these hybrids originated and found this:
"Though several Caryopteris species are grown in botanical gardens, as ornamental plants the species have largely been superseded in gardens by the hybrid Caryopteris ÃÂ clandonensis (C. incana ÃÂ C. mongholica). The accidental cross that produced it occurred in the garden of Arthur Simmonds at Clandon, near Guildford, Surrey.[5] In 1930, wishing to propagate C. mongholica, he gathered seeds from a plant that was growing near C. mastacanthus. When the seedlings eventually flowered in their second year, hybrids appeared. The final selection, however, was made of a self-sown volunteer that appeared under C. mastacanthus, and eventually smothered it. It began winning Royal Horticultural Society medals in 1933."
I find this stuff fascinating and it proves once again - you have to have at least a basic understanding of botanical names.
Kevin
Those delosperma look great. I hope mine come up strong this spring, they seem to be a favorite of the rabbits and struggling as a result.
There are some great ideas in this post, but I can't get past the image in my head of a nice perennial edging that's got a ton of weeds and grass sprouts growing in all over the place. Must be the scars from a childhood spent weeding bluegrass out of creeping phlox.... and that was just a 3 foot patch, not 700 feet of driveway edging. Sure you don't want to just line the drive with a couple dozen crapemyrtles or some other shrub that can be easily mown around?
Shockwave has so far been a fantastic performer and very mildew resistant.
The flames and pixies have performed very well for me, no mildew. Great short plants.
David is a classic and a PPA winner. Nothing else needs to be said.
Minnie Pearl is one of the most mildew resistant phlox in existence. Yet most retailers don't seem to carry it despite being readily available.
I'm intrigued by 'Tiara' as it's the first double flowered phlox. Mine unfortunately didn't make it. I need to get another one.
I'm sure you all mainly want to hear about paniculata types, but 2 others I wouldn't be without:
Phlox stolonifera 'Home Fires' is a fantastic bright pink groundcover phlox for part shade.
Phlox bifida is similar to the typical creeping phlox (P. subulata) types but more clump-forming and substantial looking. GREAT plant.
I also really dig P. pilosa and P. glaberrima 'Triple Play'. 'Triple Play' has yet to bloom for me, but the variegated foliage and short habit are great. P. pilosa is the native sand phlox and a butterfly magnet (and a host for some lepidoptera... though which ones I can't remember).
The Plant Geek
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ispahan- you don't happen to have any pictures of your new phlox, do you? I'd love to see the new ones from PP nursery in Vermont. They seem to have a great selection but I think I'm too cheap to place an order myself.
I transplanted most of my phlox together into a new bed last fall. I'm hoping they put on a great show now that they are all together and in better soil. I only have a few named ones, the rest are either seedlings or no ID ones so I can't really offer any 'best phlox' comments, but Darwin's choice is starting to grow on me, mostly for the leaves, but also the flowers.
The reds just aren't happy with me and I can't seem to get a good show out of any of them..... and I also haven't found a dwarf one that I like. I understand the theory of them being better suited to smaller gardens, but really? They take up just as much square footage yet don't seem to bloom as vigorously. Plus they just look dumpy to me.