22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
Pulled out Shrub Roses and Climbing Roses ('93) to check on Austin's definitions from the included Glossary.
BUSH. I use this word to describe closely pruned bedding roses, as for example a Hybrid Tea.
BUSHY SHRUB. A rose of dense, rounded growth.
SHRUB. A rose that is normally pruned lightly and allowed to grow in a more natural form, as opposed to a bush which is pruned close to the ground.
SPREADING SHRUB. A shrub on which the branches tend to extend outwards rather than vertically.
UPRIGHT SHRUB. A rose in which the growth tends to be vertical.
ARCHING SHRUB. A shrub in which the long main branches bend down towards the soil, usually in a graceful manner.
In my head a border is usually a narrower strip backed by something else. It "borders" a fence or wall of a house or even a walk/drive way. But it's not too wide and is usually longer in length than depth. Usually the taller plants are to the rear of the viewing angle with shorter ones in front. If it's free standing along a walk or drive way where it can be viewed from both sides you can put taller in the center with shorter on either side.
A bed can be anything else, square, round, free form, big or small, whatever shape or size you need or want. It can be free standing in the middle of a lawn or against a house, building or wall but it's deeper than a border. It can be uniform in height or it can also have taller focal points in the center or a key area surrounded or filled in with shorter plants. Whatever allows the plants to be seen unobstructed and at their best from the viewing point, i.e. good curb appeal!
I think either one can be formal or not depending on what you put in them and how you arrange it. I don't particularly like a too formal look to my garden so mine are pretty much a riot of different colors, textures and shapes. I tend to over fill them (because there;s always something else I want, lol) so they look a bit big and blowsy. That's the look I like though. Nothing too neat or rigid for me. I like a more relaxed and natural looking arrangement of plants. Only humans plant in neat little rows. Mother Nature never does!
Early on (before I knew about the virused rose situation) many of my commercial roses had a life time of about 5 years. Later on, I did not keep roses with virus symptoms. I am a hybridizer and did not want to take the chance of producing a virused offspring and / or infecting my valuable seedlings..
The latest tool for virus identification seems to next generation sequencing.
The research paper below reports finding PNRSV in wild multiflora by what they call "deep sequencing"..
"A bizarre virus-like symptom of a leaf rosette formed by dense small leaves on branches of wild roses (Rosa multifloraâÂÂThunb.), designated as âÂÂwild rose leaf rosette diseaseâ (WRLRD), was observed in China."
"The assembly of siRNAs led to the reconstruction of the complete genomes of three known viruses, namely Apple stem grooving virus (ASGV), Blackberry chlorotic ringspot virus (BCRV) and Prunus necrotic ringspot virus (PNRSV), and of a novel virus provisionally named âÂÂrose leaf rosette-associated virusâ (RLRaV)."
H. Kuska comment: Although they call their procedure "Deep sequencing" it appears to be similar to "next generation sequencing" see below.
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In the U.S. Professor Tzanetakis (whose research group was the first to identify Rose Rosette Virus) has recently published a paper on next generation sequencing.
Title: "Development of a virus detection and discovery pipeline using next generation sequencing."
Authors : Thien Ho , Ioannis E. Tzanetakis
"The pipeline was used to process more than 30 samples resulting in the detection of all viruses known to infect the processed samples, the extension of the genomic sequences of others, and the discovery of several novel viruses. VirFind was tested by four external users with datasets from plants or insects, demonstrating its potential as a universal virus detection and discovery tool."
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682214004437
Here is a link that might be useful: link to Chinese paper and PNRSV
seil, seeing your lovely bouquet is bittersweet because I know this is the end of the rose season for you, and I'd like it to last longer. Still, they gave you a splendid send-off.
ratdogheads, that's a gorgeous display and I love how you've staged the roses in term of color grouping and choice of vases. The only one I have is Marie Pavie which looks so sweet in its little vase. Mine is white and I love the pink color of yours.
Ingrid
The reason I'm able to cut my floribundas to the ground before spring is that there is never live healthy cane at winters end. Even those which do not appear dead have discolored centers when trimmed if I allow them to grow they will not have healthy leaves. They go down to the crown every year. The unhealthy canes don't provide food to the rose. So they are safe to remove in the middle of our ice cold winters. In spring feeder roots that have died will begin to grow. Canes will sprout again. Healthy leaves will feed the roots. The beautiful roses will be back.
I've never had any luck with "tender" (many floribundas, most hybrid teas, some shrubs, etc.) roses in the ground; whether against a south wall exposed, or mounded after freezing weather with free-draining mulch, they always die back to the crown. Come spring, it's always prune down to those last few inches!
My 'Papa Meilland' was a fantastic example of this, but came back very well each season I had it and was always around four feet tall by the end of July.
Interestingly to me, nickjoseph, is what a different type of Zone 5 climate you experience there in Wisconsin.
Here in my south-central Michigan (southern most county very near Interstate 69) I had NO blackspot on my two roses I would suspect to have it the most ('Angel Face' and 'Mirandy'), and I have NEVER seen rust in my location (nor 15 miles southeast at my father's). Generally blackspot is the most prevalent fungal presence in my humid climate.
This year's scourge for me was powdery mildew. 'Therese Bugnet' seemed to be heavily infected this season, beginning shortly after the new season's growth began (but after my main spring flush) and 'Mirandy' started showing signs and touches of it through September only.
I did not spray this year except for washing down of plants with copious fresh water spray.
My AF and Mirandy are my first-time pot experiments, and I love trying new things.
I suppose the best option, of course, is to select those wonderful, cane hardy varieties for us here in the Great North.
I have found Rugosas and gallicas to be exceptionally impressive in this regard, and look forward to trying more classes of these roses.
Interestingly, Westerland, which I often seen rated as hardy, always died near the ground for me in a southern, sheltered site. I ended up SP'ing this one.
The once-bloomers are more than worth their place (especially if one has the room) in the garden during their one, extended, intense, and bountiful display of blousy beauty.
Steven
I am also thinking of having a sprinkler system with drip in the beds for my front yard. how does that work, zone wise. Are the drips different zones than the sprinklers for the lawns? If I have the sprinkler system installed by professionals, could I do the drip on my own (to save money) or is that not advised? I do have a rather large (wide) front yard with beds all over the place so I would probably need a few different zones. And obviously I don't want the sprinklers to spray on my roses.
buford,
One 1/4 inch hose can handle about 10 drippers without a loss in volume. So, you could run a 1/4" hose out to a bed and using Tee's water 10 roses. At the water source you would attach a timer, back-flow preventor, a pressure reducer, and a piece of 1/2 inch hose. The end of that hose is either capped or bent backwards to close it off. They sell units just for that, looks like a figure-8.
Along that 1/2" hose you insert plugs that the 1/4 inch hoses are attached to. They can be just inches apart.
Don't bury the 1/4 inch hose, just pin it down on top of the grass. In a few weeks you won't see it so run straight lines to the beds. At the end of each 1/4" hose attach a dripper of the correct volume (ie. 1/2 gal, 1 gal, etc)
hope that helps.....
Bellarosa - whether Red Cascade climbs or sprawls depends on how you grow her. If you tie her up to a support, she climbs. If not, she covers ground. What makes it work as a ground cover is that it doesn't just bloom at the end like most climbers (which would make them poor as ground covers). Instead, it puts out a lot of short laterals at regular intervals, so blooms pop up all over the place. As I recall, mine had about 4 or 5 main canes, each of which spread in a different direction with scattered blooms along the length.
I agree - hmf is the best website for roses! Everyone should support it if possible with a premium membership so it stays around!
Cynthia
Cynthia, I looked into the two Fairy Tale roses you mentioned and OMG! They are absolutely beautiful. Thank you so much for suggesting them.
Iris_gal I totally agree with you on Molineux. It's color is a hard yellow. Not a bad rose or color at all, but I wouldn't add it to a bed of pastels.
It's funny, like you I have picked up a perennial or shrub before and marched around a nursery holding it against other plants I consider as possible combinations. One time a fellow gardener and I got kinda carried away and had a whole perennial grouping worked out with gallon size potted plants before we realized we had an audience of the amused nursery owner and several other customers. The owner told me later that she sold two complete sets of our little layout exercise...lol So yes, she didn't mind at all!
Meredith, thank you for suggesting Anne Hathaway and Sans Souci... I want them both!!! Sans Souci for its incredible color and shape, not to mention the name. Anne Hathaway has a great "presence" from the pics I saw online... I am not sure how healthy she will be though. Much as I like Harkness roses, they tend to not be the healthiest or hardiest roses in my corner of the country. It would be great if she were an exception. Maybe being planted close to the house would help in the hardiness department. Sigh... so many great choices... I fear for the evergreen yew shrubs further down the line of my foundation planting...at this rate I will have the foundation beds all along my house filled before we hit Christmas...lol
You are all so wonderful generously recommending roses that could fit my dream bed... how cool is that?!
Hi Marc
Glad you have more rose ideas than you can use - now you need to make more rose beds to put them in (smile)! You've gotten some great suggestions as well from other folks, and I thought I'd add my two cents about height or hardiness in my zone.
Ambridge Rose is rock solid hardy and a nice bloomer, but gets at least 4-5' for me, and that's true in two different spots in my yard
Sans Souci sounds like it would be worth a try - I don't have that one but I have plenty of Barni roses in my yard that come through the winters fine. You might want to look at Antico Amore, that a friend in Omaha swears by (it's a nice medium pink, and not too tall). Anna Fendi is a nice apricot that fades to cream, and Stile 800 is an apricot that mostly stays apricot and it's in the 3-4' range (of the two, I prefer the latter)
Paul Bocuse is lovely and an intriguing mix of apricot and yellow, but I think it'll get too tall. It's a survivor in my zone 4 pocket in front of my house, but tends to be at least 5' even after being trimmed to the ground last spring
Of course we want pictures when you're done!
Cynthia
In my zone 5, Cecile Brunner can grow reasonably well, but it depends on which version of Cecile Brunner, cl. you are talking about. There are several bush forms that pop up on the sales lists, and at least two climbing forms that I have. Cecile Brunner cl. that's the Hosp polyantha climber is pretty reliable at surviving most winters for me, though it bit the dust in the polar vortex and was replaced last year. It doesn't bloom as often as I would wish, but it's a healthy and hardy rose. Cecile Brunner Everblooming cl., the Siskiyou climber I got from Heirloom, is new this spring and I think I planted and lost it several years ago. This one seems to be a little less hardy for me, but I didn't have it in a particularly protected area, as it's next to the rest of my hybrid musks.
In response to bboy's comments, I think hybrid musks are much more hardy than they are typically rated. Most of them are rated zone 6, but I have around 10 of them happily on their 4th or 5th year in a relatively exposed area of my yard. A few seems to live down to their z6 rating - Moonlight and Renae come to mind for me - but most of them are bullet proof and generally tip hardy for me.
The bottom line is that both Cecile Brunner cl. are rated to z5, but you won't know if it likes your conditions until you try it. If your zone is indeed stretching into z4, that can make a big difference for many climbers, so it might be safer to try it in a protected spot. A way that I create a "protected spot" where there isn't one already is to stand leaf bags around the wimpy rose once the temperatures are around a high of 20's. I've already done that for my teas this year, and they're going on 5 or 6 years in my yard and none of them are rated any lower than zone 7. They've been pretty happy, even tip hardy under these circumstances, and are among my more reliable bloomers in heat.
Cynthia
Depending on how cold it got during this time, 4 or 5 years isn't a very long trial. Hardiness zones are frequently misapplied, somebody could easily list a rose as Zone 6 because it freezes at 0F or Zone 7 because it freezes at 10F. And I have found that when I do a literature review of a particular rose there can be a multiple zone variation in hardiness assignments. So apparently hardiness ratings are given rather often that are just plain wrong. I have noticed for years roses I am interested in and have personal exposure to being given highly optimistic zone designations. Statements in commercial literature in particular should always be considered subject to verification.
That's all I use. I soak my bare roots for a few hours (or overnight if I forget), and then pot them up and keep them out of the wind. No special soil recipe for me. No fertilizer either, just water.
Exciting that its shipping time. Yay!
lilfinch, Yes she is own root. All of my roses are own root. Got her when they were called Flower Circus roses so she's been hear a long time. Own root seems to be the only roses that have grown well here. I've had dr. huey multiflora and a third one can't recall the name. When shovel pruning they all had roots not much larger than when they were planted. Pomponella could not be found own root back then. She put down her own roots a long time ago and abandoned the multiflora. Had to move one and the graft was just laying there unused. For me least own root gives me good strong roses that seems to better handle what mother nature can dish out. Years with to much rain, no rain, frigid weather and so on. Sorry for being long winded.
This post was edited by pattyw5 on Fri, Nov 14, 14 at 10:25
Healthy and fragrant there's Polar Express. It's creamy white fading to white. Can't wait to get the new Ice Cap Rose. It's from Radler in conjunction with Meilland Int. Unfortunately my guess is it's going to be scentless as it sounds like a double flowered White Out. While WO is totally disease free here In high humidity in the corn belt. Don't know how she does in the gulf coast states.Just a couple more beauties to consider. As they grow like Margaret Merrill did for me.She had horrible black spot here if not sprayed.
I'm sorry that I neglected to tell you about Margaret Merrill. When I sprayed She was glorious to my eye. Bringing to mind pure sweet innocents. One of the hardest shovel prunes ever. I'm scent challenged and don't remember her being smelly. She formed nice round even growth. Knee high I think. Don't recall continuous bloom but bloomed in flushes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
This post was edited by pattyw5 on Sat, Nov 15, 14 at 16:55
If one of the wild roses has an immunity against the virus, it may be possible that grafting ornamental roses to that wild rose (used as understock) may transfer the immunity.
"if silenced rootstock can efficiently transmit the silencing signal to non-transformed scions, as has already been demonstrated in herbaceous plants."
This article is talking about adding genetically modified RNAi-eliciting constructs to normal rootstocks, but it should also work if a wild rose already has the proper RNAi.
See the review below.
Here is a link that might be useful: link to scientific article
People, including myself, love roses and roses will continue to be an important element in the garden. A way forward for the people, for the general public and science to work together to find a more effective control options for this disease growing problem. "
Here is a link that might be useful: http://alldiseasessheets.org/
they are not houseplants...
you will do more harm.. leaving them indoors.. with insufficient light..
than you will .. exposing to what you might think is cold ...
you are on the verge of loving them to death ...
in a pot that big.. see if you cant get someone to come by.. once a week ... to water ... and if you cant... just water real heavy for a few days prior.. to get the media nice an moist.. and hope for the best ...
ken
And, in Z9, 1\3 barrel isn' big enough long-term, for Grandiflora Roses.