22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

Sorry don't know why I double posted.

Looked up Zaide at Newflora this morning as I was also considering this rose. Unfortunately it is not very disease resistant. I don't spray. Newflora gives Information on most of the Kordes roses sold in the US. Balinda's Dream mildewed badly for me. I'm still searching also.

This post was edited by pattyw5 on Thu, Nov 13, 14 at 11:59

There are few roses, in my opinion, that can compete with Gertrude Jekyll for fragrance, and also for vigorous growth. We grow this rose in an environment that gets quite a few hot days, and it just keeps on going. Since we live in semi-desert, we don't see any disease issues. Our GJ is own root, and does not seem to lose any growth through the winter. The thorns are quite signficant: you should wear good protection when pruning. GJ will easily spread out into a large bush with many canes coming from below ground. The fragrance is noticable 40 feets away when it is in bloom, which is most of the growing season for us. In order to avoid pruning parts of the top growth, I am now just taking whole canes off at ground level, and letting new ones replace them.
Renais

I am in the Nevada desert. Galloping Gertie does well, but does not bloom much, except for a spring and fall flush. It does smell great. I have Barone Prevost too, and it smells about the same. But my Barone Prvost balls for some reason in the spring. I have Belinda`s dream too, and for some reason, it has never had much fragrance. It is about 5 years old.

I think Buford's got it. It is the Ebola VIRUS. ;-)

Jeri

Since several have brought up the subject of Ebola Virus, the following may be of interest.

Around 1990 scientists started realizing that plants utilized the production of RNAi (RNA interference) to fight plant viruses.

"The discovery of RNAi was preceded first by observations of transcriptional inhibition by antisense RNA expressed in transgenic plants,[145] and more directly by reports of unexpected outcomes in experiments performed by plant scientists in the United States and the Netherlands in the early 1990s.[146] In an attempt to alter flower colors in petunias, researchers introduced additional copies of a gene encoding chalcone synthase, a key enzyme for flower pigmentation into petunia plants of normally pink or violet flower color. The overexpressed gene was expected to result in darker flowers, but instead produced less pigmented, fully or partially white flowers, indicating that the activity of chalcone synthase had been substantially decreased; in fact, both the endogenous genes and the transgenes were downregulated in the white flowers. Soon after, a related event termed quelling was noted in the fungus Neurospora crassa,[147] although it was not immediately recognized as related. Further investigation of the phenomenon in plants indicated that the downregulation was due to post-transcriptional inhibition of gene expression via an increased rate of mRNA degradation.[148] This phenomenon was called co-suppression of gene expression, but the molecular mechanism remained unknown.[149]

Not long after, plant virologists working on improving plant resistance to viral diseases observed a similar unexpected phenomenon. While it was known that plants expressing virus-specific proteins showed enhanced tolerance or resistance to viral infection, it was not expected that plants carrying only short, non-coding regions of viral RNA sequences would show similar levels of protection. Researchers believed that viral RNA produced by transgenes could also inhibit viral replication.[150] The reverse experiment, in which short sequences of plant genes were introduced into viruses, showed that the targeted gene was suppressed in an infected plant. This phenomenon was labeled "virus-induced gene silencing" (VIGS), and the set of such phenomena were collectively called post transcriptional gene silencing.[151]"

The above quote is from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_interference

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It did not take long to recognize that the same mechanism(s) take place in other virus infected forms of life.

Here is a very recent paper concerning RNAi and Ebola (plus other human infecting virus).

Title: "Postexposure Protection of Guinea Pigs against a Lethal Ebola Virus Challenge Is Conferred by RNA Interference"

"RNA interference (RNAi) represents a powerful, naturally occurring biological strategy for inhibiting gene expression. RNAi has been used in cell-culture systems to inhibit the replication of a number of viruses that cause disease in humans, including HIV, hepatitis B virus (HBV), hepatitis C virus, influenza virus, herpesviruses, poliovirus, human papillomavirus, respiratory syncytial virus, and coxsackievirus (reviewed in [4, 5]); more recently, it has been used to inhibit some emerging and reemerging viruses, including Marburg virus [6], lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus [7], and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus [8]. "

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/193/12/1650.full

Here is a link that might be useful: RNA interference (RNAi) and Ebola Virus

Interesting results, Cynthia. I think by nature and growth habit HTs are not generally known for being prolific bloomers. They bloom in flushes and those take time to generate and in order to come up with those nice longer stems for cutting we associate with HTs sometimes that's a long time. They also bloom singly to a stem for the most part. So they don't have the more full, covered in blooms look of the classes that bloom in clusters.

As for grafted or own root you have to remember that all of the older HTs were never, ever tested own root. Own root wasn't really a commercial option until recently so breeders never tested them that way. They were bred to BE grafted. So a lot of those roses are very weak growers on their own roots. Of course not all of them, because just by the odds some of them would be good growers, but a lot of them are weaklings. There's probably a good chance that a lot of the floribundas and grandifloras from that time are weak on their own roots too but they have different growing habits that make it less noticeable. If those roses were coming out today they'd be tested under some very different criteria and probably would never make it to market. Think of all the lovely roses we'd never have if that were the case. Roses like Double Delight and Peace may never have been marketed and that would indeed be a sad thing. Grafting isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Seil - I agree that HTs aren't known for being prolific bloomers, which is why I gave many of them the benefit of the doubt. My own root Madame Delbard is every bit as good (bad?) a bloomer as grafted Veteran's Honor in the same bed, and both are stiff upright narrow roses with a few blooms at the ends of the canes every few weeks. On the other hand, at least two of my top most impressive, well-branched prolific bloomers are grafted HTs - Anne Henderson and Savoy Hotel. I don't know what they'd be like on their own roots, but it's enough to make me rethink my hesitations about grafted plants. I just feel so bad for the poor things as I tend to lose a good fourth of my grafted plants in their first summer from what I'm presuming is verticilium wilt, much less those that don't survive the winters. Still, there are plenty of lovely shrubs and OGRs that I still want own-root to leave choices for the HTs in the grafted plants.

And yes, if we didn't have grafting many wonderful roses would be sadly missing from our world. There are already too many roses that have disappeared, so having a variety of ways to keep them alive over time is always a good thing. Let's hope we still keep experts able to graft roses commercially for the foreseeable future!

Cynthia

You're welcome, Jackie. If it is as over cast and chilly there now as it is here, you won't have much, if any, bleeding. Let the sun shine ON the cane and the air temp rise into the high seventies or above and the bleeding should start like a hose. That is what I have seen on every root stock I've budded to here once I've severed the top growth from above the inserted buds. "Pruned" cane ends work the same way, except for possibly the rate and quantity of flow which should be determined by the gauge of the cane and the genetics of the variety. Thicker canes flow more sap. IXL, Pink Clouds and Fortuniana flow much more sap than the modern rose seedlings I have pressed into use for later budding needs. The more vigorous a grower the plant is, the higher the sap flow rate it has as that is what drives growth. Kim

OK - at best the cut cane about which I am speaking gets only filtered sunlight, and as you said right now it is not getting any. WIth winter finally showing up here (they are predicting 3 storms with possible rain in the next week here), I am hoping that it will not bleed at all, and next Spring will put out new growth. I will keep an eye on it. Thanks so much for the explanation - I am so happy that it is apparently alive.

Jackie

We planted a grafted (Pickering/R. multiflora rootstock) SdBB in our garden around 2 years ago. I am 6 ft 5 and it is taller than I am, perhaps 7 feet. When we deadhead, we take off 2-3 ft of rose cane,hoping it will produce flowers at a lower height, but it wants to throw up 3 feet of new cane before producting a flower-therefore, it cycles more slowly than most of our roses. The flowers are 4-6 inches across and do have a nice scent. This variety is extremely vigorous here with healthy foliage. We are planning on moving it to a less prominent location on our propert and replace it with 2 smaller rose plants.

I put this one in as well this spring, and since I pinch off blooms in the first year all I can comment on is the foliage, but of course that's the relevant part for BS questions. I can't tell cercospora and BS apart, but we get both of them to some extent I think, and I agree with the other posters that Pink Enchantment stayed nicely clean while others nearby faltered. Our BS pressure isn't nearly as bad as the East Coast, but I'd give this one two thumbs up for disease resistance, at least as far as these two conditions go.

Cynthia

Got another surprise today walking through the garden. R. borissovae is blooming. Again. What a neat little rose! Flowers have a sweet scent overlayed with linseed oil.

Melissa

Trospero:
"I have a R. arkansana grown from seed that flowers in 3 or 4 flushes per growing season; the final one usually in early October. In breeding, this trait vanishes when crossed with modern roses of any kind. I never did find a mate for it that passed on this reblooming trait. It would likely require several generations of careful selection, but I gave up breeding before I could pursue that idea."

My readings have led me to the conclusion that one can't get juvenile rebloom out of a native without multiple generations, as you say, and that if one wants to exceed 50% native (and thus have a good shot at rose rosette resistance, among other things), it would balloon into a huge project. I was thinking about it differently. Rather than trying to mix some native into garden roses, I was wondering how good of a garden rose could be made out of natives. Though your White Rabbit arkansana (or my reblooming californica or palustris) would be incompatible with chinensis rebloom, they might not be with each others', or with that of other sorts of extended bloomers and adult rebloomers (spithamea, pomifera/borissovae, damascena, musk, banksia, etc.) Palustris x virginiana blooms twice, as does setigera x gallica, if Baltimore Belle's ancestry is to be believed, so it doesn't seem like an impossible goal.

Basically I'm just chewing on the problem of how to breed out the suckering without losing what they already have going for them, including rebloom. Your arkansana might not be too bad that way, but californica can eat a yard pretty quickly. I could just graft native rebloomers onto setigera rootstock and be done with it -- I admit I have some setigera seeds in the fridge, and am considering trying it -- but that seems more like a workaround than an ideal solution. The non-chinensis rebloom/extended bloom mechanisms are just so poorly explored it's hard to guess what breeding approach might solve the suckering without killing the blooming season.

In a way, it's similar to the question I face using Nightmoss as breeding stock. Neither of its parents rebloom, and it doesn't rebloom, but a seedling of it does, and a cross of it with a flush-blooming found rose does. Those two comprise all of its known progeny. Nuits de Young and Tuscany Superb have produced one reblooming offspring each, but their single blooming progeny are far more common. So what's lurking in Nightmoss, is it damascena rebloom, chinensis rebloom, the rare but undeniable gallica rebloom? Two or more of the above?

Mama Luymans (Gruss an Teplitz x Aimable Rouge) reblooms, though Aimable Rouge doesn't look chinensis, and seems too old to contain any. Baltimore Belle, Stanwell Perpetual, Paula Vapelle, and a number of other chinensis-free rebloomers, shouldn't. If the Portland Rose is really an F1 of gallica x damask, it shouldn't. For that matter, musk x gallica shouldn't, nor should its offspring R. damascena. More to the point, my palustris has stipules that are a little wide for the species, and its prickles aren't too hooked, but I still have no clue why it's in bloom in middle of November.

I guess there's nothing more that I can do, than to place my bets on certain combinations, and see what happens. Like, if I tried Souvenir de Brod x Nightmoss, I suspect I might get some rebloomers in the batch, but I couldn't tell you what kind(s) of rebloom it would be, why it had it/them, or how to extend the result to other crosses. Maybe that's as good as it gets when you're out of the chinensis mainstream.

Tell me about this rose- Do you have other reds and how is it different?

VH has excellent size and exhibition form--great for rose shows.

Marilyn Wellan is another excellent red, but it blooms very early in the season, while VH blooms late. This is very important for rose exhibitors bringing roses to Spring shows.

Grande Amore has plenty of blooms and excellent disease resistance, but the blooms are small and young plants have blooms with a color fault (white line).

Chrysler Imperial and Mister Lincoln have great fragrance.

Opening Night is the red to get if you like open blooms.

This post was edited by zack_lau on Tue, Nov 11, 14 at 11:01

Some slug damage as Michael said but I agree with Kim too, looks like wear and tear. Don't pull off anything with green on it even if it's damaged. Those are still feeding the rose. If a leaf has stopped feeding the rose it will turn yellow and fall off on it's own. You need to keep as much green leaf as possible to keep the rose healthy.

Very glad to hear that you guys think it is not in danger. As my sole surviving rose from this summer, it is all the more dear to me. Will check for slugs tomorrow. Thank you all for your help and helping my peace of mind.

The weather is mild and the bloom and bud will probably stay that way for a while. The HT are all planted very close to deck/slab off our living room that we spend a lot of time at.

That's a beautiful bloom. I love my St. Patrick HT, although it's only the first year. The last time I cut a bloom to enjoy in the house, it lasted so long, the stem formed a callus.

Thank you! Kim

Kousa -- It has only been in the ground for maybe 3.5 weeks. I might be able to answer that question in 3.5 YEARS.

We have to grow everything in large squat pots, in the ground (with extra holes) to prevent plants from becoming Gopher Chow. That slows them down, until they can get their roots out into the ground.

Jeri

I heard the Rose Show was a little "rinky dink". A lot of exhibitors were not really to happy with the way thing came down.

Hi Henry, several members of my Rose Society were at the meeting. Here is a report from our newsletter about the RRD Roundtable:

Then we heard a great panel discussion on Rose Rosette Disease, including Drs. Mark Windham, Byrnes, Ong, and Tzanetakis, all of whom have been studying RRD. The RRD virus has been identified, and research recently has fulfilled all three of KochâÂÂs postulates to prove that it is the causative agent. The disease has been observed in the US since the 1930s. ItâÂÂs transmitted from bush to bush by the âÂÂrose leaf curlâ eriophyid mite. It moves through the plant slowly at first, from cell to cell, but then rapidly moves through the plant to the roots and to other branches. So what else did we learn? The disease may exist in plants and plant parts that arenâÂÂt showing symptoms, so if we have any suspicion of RRD we should act quickly to remove the entire plant from our gardens. After removal of an infected plant (and ALL its roots), we can safely replant in that space in a couple of weeks, since the mite doesnâÂÂt seem to survive in the ground. Early studies have been inconclusive about controlling the mite with common miticides, though research continues. Different herbicides (Round-Up vs 2,4d) may produce different symptoms on roses, but unless those symptoms appear in several plants/places, damage is probably not due to herbicide drift. Meanwhile, we may also see different symptoms of RRD on different cultivars, and different symptoms when there are multiple viruses infecting a plant. We donâÂÂt need to worry about transmitting the virus from plant to plant with pruners (unlike rose mosaic). We learned that Lysol is inadequate as a disinfectant for our pruners �" the professionals recommend non-fat milk!