22,151 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

âÂÂAt the September ARS National in St. Louis, one of the speakers was a breeder from Kordes. He pointed out that 1990 was the year that they quit spraying in the fields. That is when disease resistance truly became a criteria for selection.â -- Posted by flower2sew z6 Indep MO on Thu, Oct 4, 07

It takes about 10 years to bring a rose into commerce.

Doing a little math:

1990 - stopped spraying.

Add a year for the observation of those results yields

Add ten years yields

This is why I specify the 21st century Kordes roses.

I have 5 Tantau roses and one Kordes on trial for the third year now. They are not entirely new but new for Sweden which is why they sent them here for trialling. Three Tantaus are quite healthy, Baronesse, Mariatheresia and Pastella are absolutely BS free. The fourth in the same bed is Alabaster and this year it is very spotted, probably because of our strange summer with cold alternating with heat and rain. The single Tantau climber Uetersener Klosterrose did very well the first two years but has been a disaster this summer. The only Kordes rose, Rotkäppchen is perfectly healthy.

I had St. Patrick. It was one of my favorites. I never had a balling problem, the blooms would open, but not fully. But as Ken said, you could have 2 dozen or more long stem blooms on one bush at a time. I once was able to cut a very nice dozen and bring them in the house. Mine had gall and I had to dig it up. I would like to replace it.

Ok, after these mixed reviews, I have decided to keep mine for a while longer and give them a chance. I actually have a few blooms now that did not ball. They are small but the form is perfect. I think they are liking the milder temps we are finally starting to have. I am going to see what October brings. Jim, you can tell the grim reaper to go away. :-)Thanks everyone!

That said, many of the older Hybrid Tea Roses do NOT grow well on their own roots. They were bred and released to be grown as budded to a vigorous rootstock.

As the trend will be, more and more, to own-root production, some of those roses will probably be grown only by collectors, or as custom-budded, by nurseries such as Burlington Rose Nursery.

In the case of your 'Black Magic,' there are a good many sources listed on HelpMeFind. If I wanted a rose badly, I'd go right down the list, and check with all of them.

If that didn't pay off, I'd get one from Heirloom, on its own roots. Then, I'd contact Burlington, about custom budding.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sources for Rosa Black Magic

Thank you for all the responses. I will try them out. I looked up through HelpMeFind many times for vendors before but I don't think their list is up-to-date. I checked out their listed vendors but they don't carry the roses that they were listed under.

A lot of these older HTs were bred to be grafted and were never tested as own root roses so there is really no way to know now how they might preform as such. The only thing you can do is give it a try and see how it does in your garden.

If you can find a better quality grafted plant at a nursery, whether local or on line, you may find it will do much better for you. The big box stores like Walmart do not get in the best quality plants to begin with and that may be why you're having difficulties. Some times a rose is just a dud from the get go. It might have a weak root system or have been grafted poorly or whatever. It's just never going to do well no matter what you do. That doesn't mean that that variety is a bad rose. It just means you got a bad plant of it.

Thank you everyone. I liked Kate's suggestion about trying the multiflora so I decided to go ahead and order one from Palatine, I've already done it. I am still a little curious about the own-root from ARE, I have been wanting to try them, because of the high praise they receive. It could be that since lizardacres lives in zone 9 that makes a big difference in the way CI would perform. Years ago I had a Chrysler Imperial planted on the south side of my house. Seems like it got fairly large and was covered with blooms. Perhaps planting it in a different location would help.

Love Song has her moments.

So pretty!

"Girdle" just means the bark dies all the way around the cane, so the cane dies above that spot. If the bark is killed only halfway around, the cane will survive and support some growth and bloom.

There are borers that tunnel way down the cane, but these do not start with drilling the fresh-cut pith at a priming cut. Google "raspberry horntail." Nests of the pith-drillers ("small carpenter bee") are usually 2" deep, although once in 35 years I found a deep tunnel.

Canker is a fungal infection and there are several kinds. Dormant sprays of sulfur or lime sulfur can help with one kind, but its not worth the trouble IMO.

Thanks Michael. I have a better understanding now.

I did live in the burbs in Houston for almost a decade, and if I see your gardening area correctly, the rose is planted right next to a cement slab. (And the weepholes in the brick wall in back of the rose?)

The problem is, or at least may be, that the slab may be affecting the pH of the soil. And that pH may be affecting nutrient uptake by your roses. (Also there may be some chemical treatments done to the perimeter of your house before you moved in.

First, call the Texas County extension agent and ask him or her about getting a soil test for that specific soil (forget about any suggestions that you should take samples from all over your yard, that's for grass growers). Also ask that the test check for nutrients in the soil.

As Ann says, iron deficiency chlorosis commonly occurs next to slabs and foundations because of high pH. However, this looks like mild RoundUp or other herbicide damage to me. It commonly shows up in new growth when there was enough of a dose to throw the development process off but not enough to kill the extant leaves. A tiny amount can cause symptoms on roses.

Thanks,mendocino_rose; you encourage me. Good as HMF is, you really DO have to take it-like everything else, I guess-with the proverbial grain of salt. The rose Madame Solvay is only rated as "good", I believe,but I am totally in love with it; I'd call it excellent ...just to give an example...bart

I have no personal experience of them but a friend of mine had one of her HMF photos stolen and added to their homepage. She tried several times to get at least a rose in compensation but had no reply.

I have Heathcliff. So far this year it has had just two flowers. It has basically sulked. That may not be a total surprise. The flowers are a light to medium red in color and open quite quickly. Perhaps with time it will improve. It may not care for our heat. I will have to see if it does anything now in the fall when it cools off.

My Heathcliff did nothing all summer and I was convinced that it was a dud. Then the cool nights came along and it has exploded with many big, luscious, well formed, long lasting blooms. Now that it's blooming it tolerates high daytime temps well. It's a neat, compact, healthy plant so far, not especially bushy, good clean foliage. The color is much pinker than I hoped, though it's a rich color and complements Boscobel quite nicely. I should note that reds in my garden tend toward pink and I've also experienced that many of my red/crimson roses are decidedly pink in their first year and darker up as they mature. This has been particularly true of the DA reds.

One season, I did try using a hand sprayer with Wilt Pruf as an experiment on a few of my roses. But otherwise it was a no spray garden as was my parents garden (my dad graduated in 1920 from the agriculture school of The University of Nebraska (World War I service delayed). He then became the equivalent of an agriculture extension agent, then a high school teacher of agriculture. My mother's parent's farm was a Wisconsin dairy farm. Their main crops were milk, hay and glacier rocks. They both came from the same area of southern Bohemia where rose growing was in their ancestor's blood. I do not recall any dangerous chemical spraying in my grandparents' farms / my parents' gardens. (The 100 acre Nebraska farm was run like the farms in Bohemian.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to my father, Univ of Nebraska

Interesting history Henry!

Hey Kim! Thank you for your reply!
The buds are normal sized, by that I mean medium, so they're not bigger than the trunk, so no worries there! ^_^
How can I do this without the bud drying out? I got florist tape for the procedure but how do I know that the bud wont dru out before knitting? It is always a fear I have :(

About the mini, there will be some of the root stock with it, the root stock it is attached to for that matter, so I will try getting the rootstock to re-root in some florist foam and I will try my best to keep it alive till then :)
Or I might try layering before cutting off the top to get some roots.. always an option!
I live in Nottingham in England, so I am either a zone 8a or 8b.

You're welcome! Before doing anything, you may want to take some canes you were going to prune off anyway, and use your budding knife or single edged razor blade to practice lifting the bark to expose the cambium layer. You can also practice slicing out the buds so you will have a bit of experience removing them from the rose you wish to replicate. You need cambium tissue on the back of the scion (bud you wish to insert into the stock) and on the surface of the stock for the scion to grow to. Once you see what it takes to have cambium tissue on both pieces, you are ready to move on.

Preventing the bud from drying out is so easy, you'll probably wonder why you didn't think of it. Do you have any jar lids you're about to throw into the trash? How about small, shallow saucers you can put some water in so you have something to keep the buds wet until they are inserted? Yup, that's all it takes. Mel Hulse, who was the Volunteer Coordinator for the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden in San Jose, CA, used to keep them on his tongue until he inserted them. It works, but isn't something I would suggest for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is, do you really KNOW what chemicals may have been used on the rose you are putting pieces of into your mouth? A jar lid or saucer works just fine and doesn't potentially expose you to any harmful products.

I also like wetting the exposed cambium on the stock before inserting the bud, but I also live in a very hot, arid climate (inland valley, just north of Los Angeles, where it is to be between 100 and 107 F for the next five days). I've found by wetting the exposed cambium and the bud, they stick together quite well while I fumble with the tape I'm wrapping them with.

As long as you have good cambium to cambium contact; you don't let the bud dry out prior to inserting it; it's tied in tightly to prevent movement and water loss before it knits; you don't let the stock dry out while it is knitting, you should see success in the three or so week period. The only caveat I can think of outside of this is, September may be a bit late for budding in your climate and particularly with your stock. I don't know which stock was used to create your standard, nor how long it remains suitable for budding in your climate. If the sap isn't flowing sufficiently in the stock, it may affect how well, how quickly, or even IF the pieces will knit together. Anything you can do to keep the standard actively pushing new growth during this period should help.

If you can get the buds to knit to the stock, you might want to wait until next spring to sever the budded mini. I don't know whether the buds will push between now and winter on the stock you're using, nor whether you will be easily able to root the budded mini this time of year. The buds will successfully hold until next spring as long as they are knitted to the stock. Next spring, you can sever them from each other, the buds should begin pushing as the weather warms and the budded mini may be easier to root in the warming weather. Just some thoughts. Not that it can't work. I'm just not sufficiently familiar with attempting what you want to do in your climate. Good luck with them! It will be an interesting experiment. Kim

kousa--

Generally the midges do not go away but rather build up over the season and return the following year. If you are outside the hot zone for midge, it's possible there is some environmental factor or predator that limits them. In that case you might have an intermittent problem some seasons but not every year.

An approach that has not been mentioned (nor tested in a controlled experiment) is using an impervious mulch to keep the pupae from burrowing in the soil or keep overwintering pupae from emerging from the soil. This could be plastic or a thick layer of newspaper applied freshly each spring before any leaves open.. You would have to cover every square inch of soil inside the drip line and a little wider. Don't mulch heavily over this layer, as deep mulch creates soil-like conditions where the pupae could survive. We used to have a competent poster here who believed she had successfully controlled midge with a newspaper mulch.

We are in the process of rebuilding our rose garden... (On a mission to find better blackspot resistant roses for my area in a no spray situation.)

So right now we only have 9 roses and 5 of those are Double Knockouts...

But I ordered two Carefree Sunshines a couple years ago and that's when our rose midge problem started. But only those two roses showed signs of rose midge.
SO I shovel pruned both CS roses and carefully bagged them and called our local Ag office which later confirmed they both had Rose Midge.

I took up the mulch, loosened the soil then put plastic over the area. So far so good this year as all other roses are still blooming good.

I will have to wait and see what happens next year though...

I was just telling my hubby my roses have never looked so good this time of year. Granted they don't look as good as they did in the spring but usually half mine by now are completely defoliated. Boooooo! I've fertilized more and kept them watered better this yr so maybe that's helped. I agree with boncrow and could never imagine your roses looking tacky!! They always look so beautiful and healthy!! I've already received 2 small orders and really don't need more. Lol. Noooooo room!! Judy

Seil - I always enjoy your sense of humor. Boncrow and Judy, yes my roses do look tacky sometimes! I do appreciate the kind words. Kentucky_rose sounds like you've had some great weather for roses! Our weather is just now beginning to be more fall like. I do hope I'll have some pretty fall blooms. A few of my roses are setting on buds. If I have the blooms I'll definitely take pictures!