22,152 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
There are probably a couple of reason that could explain it. The older ones have been growing in different conditions than the newer ones, such as soil and weather, that could explain the difference. It's also possible that the earlier ones were a different Morden rose. There are several different ones and a few of them are a brighter solid pink, Morden Belle, Morden Centennial and Morden Ruby.
I've grown Secret (first year bare root) and I grow Secret's Out, the white sport of Secret. Neither have ever demonstrated any symptoms of RMV, though I know that doesn't mean they aren't infected, they just haven't shown symptoms. Both have been great roses in high heat with not terribly hard winters. I understand from friends who tried growing it in Ohio that it is not terribly winter hardy for harsher climates. I can verify this rose LOVES water! It flourishes where it can be drowned regularly. When Secret's Out hesitates flowering, I bump up the water and it responds with many buds. It demands much more water than any of the surrounding roses. You'll have best form and color if you can protect it from the harshest afternoon sun. Keep it far away from hardscape, no side walks or walls/fences. Increased heat increases its thirst for even MORE water. Kim
Kim -- Back when 'Secret' was new, we had 3 of it.
One came from J&P, one from Weeks, and the third, I think, was Coiner-grown.
ALL of them at one time or another, demonstrated minor evidence of virus. The Coiner rose, in some years, broke out so it looked like a very lively paisley scarf.
And YET . . . The Coiner plant, despite that, was by far the more vigorous of the 3, and so remained here for years after removal of HTs began.
FWIW . . .
Soak them in buckets several hours or days before planting. Then soak them in with a lot of water, over 5 gallons, to settle the soil. Don't tamp clay soil or even step on it when it is wet. Then mound the plants or spray with an anti-transpirant to prevent dehydration. Remove any white shoots that are exposed above the mound, as they will not survive in the sun.
The initial watering with last for 2-3 weeks in winter. When new growth appears through the mound (about a month), reduce the mound with a flow of water from the hose, or very carefully remove it by hand--new shoots are very fragile.
Young plants will use 2-3 gallons of water per week in spring, or twice that when they are 3 feet wide in hot weather. You can fertilize very lightly once they are leafed out.
As to soil preparation, best practice is to prepare the bed uniformly rather than deep holes with special soil. I dig 12" deep with a few inches of manure or finished compost (compost in the US sense, not UK sense). Alkaline soil may need a pH adjustment. Maintain a mulch of organic material 2-3 inches deep at all times. This will improve the soil over the years. Take great care never to compact the soil when it is wet.
This post was edited by michaelg on Tue, Jul 1, 14 at 9:55
Dublinbay - Thanks for the pruning advice. I did the progressive pruning method earlier in the spring. Some of the ones that are gray still showed a bit of life in them, so I left them. Now I think it's pretty clear they can get cut.
I've had these roses for about 6 years (but they've been in that spot for 70+ years!) and had never seen this before. They've always done beautifully with almost NO care from me (I just prune dead branches and occasionally deadhead - no fungicides or fertilizer and no problems). But we also had an unprecedented long, hard winter followed by a very hot spring. Hopefully it bounces back after I prune it - it will look rather silly with just one branch sticking out of the ground!
I knew that RRD is unrelated to the other rose diseases I mentioned, I was just wondering if those problems weakened a plant to make it more susceptible to RRD infection (or vice versa). From all I've read in my paranoia this week, RRD isn't very well understood. I just wanted to see if there was any anectodal evidence to suggest a correlation.
Diane - I'd read that RU overspray can produce similar symptoms (red, stunted growth and feathery ends) so I wanted to acknowledge that as a possibility.
Thanks again to everybody. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.
if your RU .. or any spray is drifting.. its because you are using too much pressure.. and too fine a spray ... do not treat it as french perfume...
fill your tank with water ... and learn how to create big drops .. which gravity will make fall to earth ...
its a function of how many pumps ... tip nozzle adjustment ... and trigger pressure ...
if you learn how to use the tool ... the tank ... then you can avoid all kinds of problems... not unlike any other tool ...
and i just dont know what to tell you.. if you are using the manufacturer type tank ...
less pressure is best ...
ken
Do what Michael says. He's good and knows his stuff.
Don't blame yourself for losing this rose. It probably never stood much of a chance in the first place. When you buy these cheapie roses they're almost always of very inferior quality and poor health to begin with. That's why they're cheap. In the future pay a little more and buy good quality plants from reputable vendors and you'll end up spending less in the long run trying to keep them alive.
Make sure roses are hardy enough for zone 5a. Some of mine died last winter. Look for hardy Buck and David Austin roses. Also consider knock out and Easy Elegance. The Crocus rose came back the best from the harsh winter. I just use 13-13-13 fertilizer from Blain's Farm and Fleet. Weed, water, fertilize and mulch. I don't use any chemicals at all.
And thanks for the compliments on the picture! I'll pass them on. My daughter is 7 and definitely an artiste! She doesn't always limit herself to pen and paper, but utilizes anything and everything around the house! I think I'll be keeping the squirrel picture for posterity. :)
Moodyblue.
In response to your 'unfragrant' Princess Of Wales rose which incidentally looks gorgeous, there is another similar one that does have a wonderful fragrance. That is A Whiter Shade Of Pale. Although it opens with a blush center that fades to pure white within 2 days.It withstands rain very well without any sign of spoiling. Unfortunately it's only available in the UK at present. This is a photo I took recently after planting in March.
This post was edited by bendipa on Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 14:19
Kosmos, or sometimes known as Kosmos Fairy Tale. It doesn't bloom as prolifically as Iceberg, but it also doesn't BS and defoliate like Iceberg will in most seasons. It is an incredibly charming rose and incredibly disease resistant. Best white I grow.
Escimo is another very good one.
Most of the Rugosa roses do very well with morning sun and afternoon shade. For white, Rosa Rugosa Alba can't be beat. Rosa Rugosa is a beautiful mauve pink. They are almost indestructible. You NEVER have to spray them for anything. Beautiful deep green foliage. The blooms smell great. No animals mess with them. That means no deer, rabbit or anyone else who chew on roses for a meal.The trick is your planting hole. If you have decent drainage, dig a hole 18" deep, 36" around. Get rid of most of that soil. Several bags of sand and a couple of bags of Garden Soil. Not top soil. It comes out to a 3 to 1 ratio. 3 or 4 shovels full of the soil you took out tossed in. Mix it all up real good. Water it down and let it settle. Throw some more sand and Garden Soil on top of everything and let it sit for a couple of days then plant your Rugosa's. I feed mine twice a year. Once in early spring right after pruning and once in August. All I feed them with is fish emulsion. The only drawback is the stems are solid thorns. But I can live with that.
For a white, I'd recommend Marie Pavie and/or Marie Bugnet. Both will tolerate less than ideal sun conditions. Hiedsommer is also another to consider.
For a Lavender, I wouldn't even bother with any other variety than Poseidon (Novalis).
I used new soil because I thought I was giving them the best opportunity for growth by buying something - apparently not. It looks like I could have saved a lot of money by not buying dirt - good advertising on the dirt makers part I guess!
I live in zone 8A (lower Alabama on the Gulf Coast) and I have heard of blackspot disease which got me worried. There is no stand still water. I had no idea they needed that little of water. I was way over doing the watering!
I had a part of our yard sink from when I buried our pet dog this winter.
I purchased garden soil from our hardware store in which I filled in the sinking areas. You know I'm having a hard time getting grass to grow in that location...
Anyhow that's my situation and not yours...
Kate and Michaelg advice sounds good to me...
Best wishes and I hope things work out! Post a pic of your blooms someday! Thanks...
Thanks Sammy - as it happened, I put one in the bed and one in a pot in the shed. Both seemed to survive the winter (amazingly) but three weeks after transplanting it to the bed, the potted AF upped and quit. The other one is doing fine, if a little slow to get started. In the future I'll post this sort of thing on Discussions. :)
I planted a potted grafted Bull's Eye this year. Compared with other roses planted at the same time, BE is quite short. So, not very vigorous growth so far. Healthy though, and I really like the flowers. The yellow does fade to white but the eye is prominent and maintains its color.
Seil, have you noticed on yours, that the flowers close up at night and reopen in the day?
I got this one this year too and love it. I like how it fades to white, and how the eye goes from cranberry to violet - I like the effect of different colours of blooms in the same spray.
Can't really comment on the vigour as almost all of my roses are new this year, but I've been pleased with the growth so far. It's not super tall but it is green, bushy, and healthy looking.
Ratdogheads, I do notice that the blooms close up at night and reopen in the day.
Karen
Where are you? Add your locale too.
I wouldn't do anything. Surely not add anything else to the mix except to keep them well watered. Don't stress them out further. Water and time maybe...
This post was edited by kentstar on Tue, Jul 1, 14 at 17:07
Right, don't fertilize until they have recovered and have put out plenty of leaves. Bloom Buster is the wrong kind of fertilizer--regular Miracle Gro or Miracle Gro for Roses is fine, or any reasonably balanced fertilizer such as 10-10-10 or 18-6-12.
Watering correctly is the most important thing. Keep a 2" mulch of leaves or bark around the roses. When the soil under the mulch feels dry-ish, water thoroughly with 2-3 gallons for small plants or 5 gallons for larger, plus or minus for extremely hot or very mild, cloudy weather. Usually once a week is fine. For new plants, I divide the ration in half and water twice a week.