21,401 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

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roseseek

You're welcome! Exogenous seed, those formed outside the hip itself, stand as good a chance of being viable as those inside the hip. Often, it simply means there wasn't enough room inside for them. I'd plant them anyway. You never know what will come up. Good luck with them! Kim

This post was edited by roseseek on Thu, Mar 27, 14 at 13:17

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 1:15PM
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Ronn Bonites

Thanks again for the helpful information Kim! I can't wait to see my first rose seedlings. :D

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 9:02AM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens, Greece)

Most of the references I can find discuss root application (hydroponics or soil drenching). I wonder if foliar applications can be effective and if they might have some negative effect by limiting the ability of the leaf to perform its functions.

Will do a little testing and report back although a minimally scientific test will have to wait until next year when I will be able to obtain from the same source multiple copies of a rose known to mildew badly in my garden (Duchesse de Brabant springs to mind).

The concoction I have in hand is very alkaline (pH > 9) even when diluted at the recommended rate and I wonder if this property might just have some effect regardless of the silica content. The same might apply to the potassium carbonate that is bound with the silicon oxide.
Nik

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 12:10PM
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henry_kuska

This is a research leaf application paper.

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/35/4/773.full.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 8:34PM
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RickButcher

Dyson LOL! I will add my vote for Miele for making the best canister vacuum out there! Truly Mercedes-Benz quality if you appreciate German engineering and can afford the stiff price tag. Do you know they test their vacs to last for 20 years??

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 5:36AM
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buford(7 NE GA)

I love my Dyson.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 5:13PM
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Krista_5NY

Rosa Eglanteria has apple scented foliage.

Pink Promise Hybrid Tea has blooms with a fragrance of apple and a hint of Tea Rose.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 3:01PM
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buford(7 NE GA)

I have Greenmantle, which is a Eglanteria and a lovely rose. I'm not sure if it's the flowers or foliage that smells like apples. I also have Lady Penzance and she has a strong apple fragrance. Both are once bloomers and rambly climbers. The flowers are small and singles.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 5:01PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Looking good, mailshadow!

Kate

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 1:46PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

I remember that sea of orange livin easy roses you had before pappu . Best of luck with your new garden! :)

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 4:11PM
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jjstatz

Let me expand further on the topic...

I use neem oil from Ahimsa alternative - http://www.neemresource.com/
I buy my fish/seaweed hydrolysate from neptune's harvest
http://www.neptunesharvest.com/fs-191.html

or I buy from brown's for just straight fish hydrolysate
http://brownsfishfertilizer.com/products-page/

Some notes about using...

Neem - you have to keep it cold, I split the gallon container into smaller bottles (it hardens when cold, so you'll have to either dunk the gallon container in a sink of hot water or leave it sitting out on a warm day) - Shake it thoroughly and divide into very tightly closing smaller bottles.

When you plan on spraying - take the bottle out, put it in a sink of hot water until it returns to liquid state. I usually pour the portion I need (.5 fl oz per gallon - a tablespoon) into a bucket and then return the bottle to the fridge, add my 1 ounce (1/8th cup per gallon of water) fish hydrolysate (be sure to thoroughly shake the container before measuring it out - be warned - this stuff is smelly), and scant tablespoon of biodegradable soap - I get 7th generation - it's cheap & readily available.

Then I add about half the water I need and stir it several times in one direction and then switch directions with a dedicated whisk. Pour into sprayer add remaining amount of water needed, close your sprayer, shake thoroughly and start spraying (make sure their are no oil droplets at the top of the solution - neem has to be thoroughly mixed to be effective - think like salad dressing - who likes separated salad dressing? yuck.

I prefer spraying right before sundown or even at night (with a flashlight... my neighbors naturally think I'm nuts) and to the point of runoff. Be sure to get undersides of leaves.

Why near or at night? This is when the stomata are opening up on the plant - in other words, the pores of the plant are open. You'll get the maximum uptake and benefit from spraying at this time and it gives the maximum time for the plant to avoid sunburn. I do this about once a week during times of high disease pressure and then back off to bi-weekly when disease pressure goes down - if it rains, I spray the next day or as soon as possible (assuming it isn't just going to rain the next day... then I wait)

As always - be sure to test an inconspicuous area of the plant and allow a week to make sure their aren't burn issues.

If you, after a few weeks, aren't seeing an improvement in plant health - up your spray concentration by half a percent. Per gallon, for example, if you started at .5% dilution - go up to 1% (1 fl ounces per gallon, 2 tablespoons).

Few other pieces of advice - this stuff is smelly. Neem has a very strong garlic-nutty smell and fish hydrolysate... well it smells like rotten fish (trust me the cold process hydrolysate smells A WHOLE lot better than the cheaper, less effective hot processed stuff... ugh). Be assured it dissipates quickly - if the scent really is bothersome you can add a drop or two of a fragrance oil - peppermint is particularly effective.

Neem and fish hydrolysate once mixed - have to be used immediately upon mixing - they break down rapidly in solution - if you sprayed everything and have some left, use it as a soil drench or spray it on something you don't normally spray. It'll be glad for it. Thoroughly rinse your sprayer after every use - I fill mine with water and just use it to water plants, silly to waste the good stuff. I try to think of it as being like licking the brownie batter off the spoon.

This should go without saying, but don't spray it on the blooms. Buds are absolutely fine - but blooms and less so buds are much more prone to phytotoxicity (burn). Do not spray during foraging times for beneficials - (shouldn't be too much of a problem at night).

DO NOT spray on host plants for butterflies/native endagered insects - Azadirachtin (the main active compound in Neem) interrupts the molting process of insects that consume it. Butterfly caterpillars, that eat and live on their respective host plants that are treated with neem (or any other spray for that matter) will die. If you don't know what that includes, I'd contact your local extension office.

You should see improvement in just about any plant you use this on. I pretty much use it on everything that isn't a host plant in my garden and this is also the same basic formulation I spray on my orchard. Also, the fish hydrolysate is more than just a sticker/carrier - it's also a fantastic fertilizer - I use the same spray formulation (1/2 fl oz neem, 1 fl oz fish per gallon) as a soil drench aka fertilizer.

Hope that answers some questions

Jordan - Organic/Holistic Orchardist and Gardener

This post was edited by jjstatz29 on Wed, Mar 26, 14 at 10:18

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 10:13AM
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jjstatz

Michaelg - There doesn't seem to be any research on azadirachtin and blackspot.

Well, that's because azadirachtin (the primary active compound in neem oil) isn't the anti-fungal agent working within neem oil.

Neem works as a fungicide

by 1. Coating as an oil like any oil coating spray and boosting cuticle defense on the leaf surface - this can also be boosted by applying fermented compost tea of horsetail/nettles which boost silica content in leaves.

2. Secondary plant metabolites stimulate an immune response from the plants neem oil is applied to.

3. by repelling insects that spread and open wounds for disease entry

4. The fatty acids in liquid fish and neem fuel the beneficial fungal/bacterial presence that out competes the harmful types.

I should say too - Fungal defense has to start with healthy plants. Your soil needs to be supportive of beneficial mycorrhizal and saprophytic fungi so that your rose is actually able to feed properly. There are a lot of fungal/bacterial innoculants available and good mulching and regular fish/neem applications keep them fed and happy and thereby keeps your roses fed and happy.

It's surprisingly not far off from how pro-biotics benefit people when consumed and/or how proper diet can keep them in balance in people. Therein lies the problem with systemics/chemical means that indiscriminately wipe out fungal presence and/or bacterial and makes it harder for your rose to do what it wants to do - grow healthy. You're killing off the most basic part of the supply chain and creating a blank slate where disease pressure can actually be worsened and becomes dependent on regular killing applications instead of developing a culture that out competes disease pressure.

Another good example is how a sourdough starter doesn't go bad when fed regularly. The fungal presence (yeast), bacteria (lactobacillus), and enzymes (amylase,maltase, etc) stabilize the pH and overall culture and outcompete/create a hostile environment to other forms within the starter as long as they are fed regularly.

^That's the basic idea of what you want going on in your soil but (obviously) with different fungal/bacterial/enzymatic types (because I hope you aren't baking bread with your soil) and if you kill one of them off with a indiscriminate fungicide you're opening yourself up to bigger problems.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 2:43PM
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henry_kuska

Fortunately, one of the mite experts, Marjorie Hoy is in Florida. She is: "eminent scholar and Davies, Fischer and Eckes Professor of Biological Control, Department of Entomology and Nematology, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611". See her article at the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: link to Hoy's article

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 12:21AM
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Maryl zone 7a

Thanks for the clarification Henry on the update to RRV from RRD. I was still under the impression that it was a phytoplasma that was the cause. The disease is pretty devastating, and in windy areas such as the state of Oklahoma, the mites are particularly mobile. I have saved about 15% of infected roses by catching it early and cutting off the affected cane down to the crown. However
last year it was horrible here and I managed to save none of my infected roses. Unfortunately, I don't see any easy nor desirable solution in the near future. ........Maryl

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 2:16PM
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henryinct

Hard to tell from the picture but here's something it could be.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oriental Beetle

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 1:02PM
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henryinct

Oriental beetles are voracious feeders on roses.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 1:06PM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens, Greece)

Yes, manure, especially if it is not fully composted, can be a problem if dogs roam around in the garden. Many dogs find it irresistible.
Nik

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 11:27AM
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twinkletoad(7B)

I add some composted manure (Black Kow) around my roses throughout the season and I think it's made a huge difference in their overall health and vigor.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 11:30AM
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view1ny NY 6-7

Beth, I've never noticed white specks in the Hyponex. I wonder if there are different formulas for the west coast vs the east coast.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 9:08PM
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bethnorcal9

Actually the water-holding granules swell and disappear into the soil when mixed in. You won't even see them once they're in there. The soil will be moist-er than regular potting soil. I don't know that Hyponex has them in their soil, but if someone is reviewing the soil and saying it's a "thick goopy mess" it just made me think maybe they have a soil version like MIracle-Gro's Moisture Control one that does have it. I'm sure some people will find using those crystals work for them, as mad_gallica mentions. I personally don't like using that kind of soil mix. Simple potting soil with a little perlite for drainage works best for my potted roses. I might also mention I used to add an organic compost to my soil mixes; there again a blend made for our regional Ace Hardwares; and I found after a time, it also settled to the bottom of the pots and got all rotten (wet and smelly) when I'd get around to pulling them out to plant in the ground. Some of those roses were in the big plastic pots for 6-8yrs. Now I only add organic compost to the surface of roses in the ground to break up my hard clay soil. But potted ones... not any more!

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 12:27AM
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henryinct

I have Fragrant Plum. It is a very vigorous spreading purple of medium height not unlike Heirloom or Royal Amethyst (which I also have). It is a heavy bloomer and extremely fragrant. Back in CT it was very prone to BS but not here in SoCal although it does mildew a bit.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 8:57PM
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vmr423(Zone 8b, SC)

Hi Jennie-

This link might be helpful for you. Some of the folks who have grown roses from seed may be able to advise you better about whether bleach is necessary, although I believe the instructions at the link below just advise hydrogen peroxide.

As mentioned, roses don't "come true" from seed, so your seedlings may or may not look much like 'Fragrant Plum'. Since you already have the seeds, why not plant them to see what you get? Maybe you'll like it even better- who knows?

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Link on growing rose seeds

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 9:17PM
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momtoollie

Thank you so much for all of your recommendations. I researched every single one and there are some great choices. Even though these trellises are well anchored, I'm afraid that in years to come, the weight of most any rose is going to present problems. So - I'm headed over to the clematis forum for suggestions. Really appreciate your advice. Thanks!

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 4:29AM
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alameda/zone 8

A rose AND a clematis would look wonderful. All you need do is dig 3 holes, sink 3 landscape timbers in with cement and anchor your trellis to those then paint same color as trellis. Any larger trellis should be anchored thusly. Moderate climbing roses are not like wisteria in that they don't destroy the structures they are on so if your trellis is strongly anchored with posts cemented in the ground, you should have no worry. If canes become larger than you want, prune them. I am in Texas, so cant comment on what would be hardy in your area. A red rose would be striking on that trellis, with a lavender Elsa Spath clematis - there are so many clematis varieties.....a large white Candida would look great with a red rose. Do keep in mind that clematis, depending on what variety you choose, will only bloom certain times of the year - a rose will bloom in flushes. Depending on how far your home is from the trellis, you will need something eyecatching - small clematis blooms might not be seen well. With a rose and a clematis, you could double your bloom times. Lovely border.......a large spot of color would really make it pop.
Judith

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 1:46PM
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New bloomsRoses from OSH planted in February: Just Joey PJPII
Posted by deervssteve(9) March 21, 2014
14 Comments
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andreark

Your babies look healthy and happy. My PJP has 2 dozen buds
that are ready to pop...

Have a lovely spring,

andreark

    Bookmark   March 25, 2014 at 7:39PM
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sunflowersrus222(7a Pa)

wow beautiful! where are all of you that you're getting blooms now? We're still getting snow :(

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 1:25PM
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buford(7 NE GA)

So sorry about that sub. But if they are own root, they may come back. We also had a hard frost last night. I brought in what I could, and tried to cover the ones that has very tender new growth with leaves and mondo grass clippings I had. I checked a few this morning and they looked ok. But I'm with you, this winter has to END now!

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 11:43AM
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lookin4you2xist(9b)

We even got chilly in St. Pete Fl this morning. Well, chilly for us at this time of year! I Hope you do not have as many causalities as you think.
Regards,
Andrew

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 12:02PM
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