22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
You might wanna show this to Paul zimmerman. LOL
He shown that own root roses establish quicker than budded/grafted roses, but it always occurred to me, "What if the root stock and scion are not compatible?" which might of been why his Grafted/budded rose did so poorly?
But this is awesome :P I my self am preparing root stocks for some budding and grafting of my own :)
Thank you! Paul and I saw when walking the Ashdown fields in Wasco, the year Arena budded his plants there, some varieties simply didn't require budding. In particular, Mme. Alfred Carriere generated inch and thicker canes on those budded plants the first summer after budding. Others pushed begrudging inches of thin growth. It all depends upon the genetics of the rose, how suitable it is for where it's being grown and under what conditions. For every variety you give me that doesn't require it, I can probably give you one which does.
Here, and in many other less cold severe, longer season areas, many own root plants are going to do wonderfully. Put the same roses in shorter, harsher season areas and they fail. We've all read the posts from forum responders here about how they won't bother with own root plants because they don't flourish in their climates and conditions. Just as we've read those which won't touch budded plants for their stated reasons. But, you have to take your cues from the rose. Most WILL root, but not all will grow well own root. If you want to be sure to get what you're trying to propagate, you're best off trying several methods of propagation. Not all are going to succeed in every situation with every rose, everywhere. I received material from two of this series from the same person at that time. I struck both and budded both. The second variety failed as cuttings, but buds on another piece of Pink Clouds remained green and have only begun pushing growth this year. It's now starting to flower. It's also mildewing up a storm, which might well mean it isn't something I really want to use for breeding, but we'll see. As with the other, I inserted multiple buds on the same, longer whip of Pink Clouds. My goal wasn't to create a garden ready plant of either, but to establish them in my garden so I could begin playing with them. Once you have one plant, you're set! Then, you can generate virtually as many as you want. Also, as with the other Ruffle variety, I intend to cut up the budded pieces of this one to root individually this winter. I know I'll have one budded low, and very possibly other budded plants if I can successfully pull off rooting them. I don't put multiple varieties on the same stock. If one is virused, then all the others are likely then to be also. But, I will put multiples of the same variety on the same stock.
Yes, incompatibility between scion and stock might result in issues with the rose settling in. So could how the budded plant was held prior to planting. If it's held too dry and experiences desiccation prior to planting, there will be issues. We've all experienced where the plant sat there, dying back, drying out instead of breaking into growth. If the rose is one with strongly Foetida genetics, it's a kiss of death. Think Peace, Grey Pearl, Angel Face, Sterling Silver and all other lavenders, yellows and Pernetiana types. Foetida genes hate cold, dry storage. It's been strongly suggested for years this could well be why bare roots of those types are often seen as "devitalized" and often never regain their original vigor.
There are simply too many variables involved to accurately state own roots will establish faster and better than budded, OR vice versa. You can demonstrate that very often, MANY roses will establish and provide you with more propagation and garden use material faster if budded, compared to own root. (I don't blame you for grafting your own!) Kim
Possible causes are verticillium wilt (a soil-borne disease that clogs the plumbing) or something wrong with the cane stub that underlies the dying cane (canker or insect damage). In eastern zone 7 and colder there was a lot of winter damage this year, but unlikely in zone 8.
V-wilt sounds like a real possibility. I have had it in two roses, which developed resistance (immune reaction) and survived. Canes die back separately to the crown or graft. You can look up images.
You're probably right seil - being mean but this stuff takes soporific to a whole new level. I struggle to find any relevance to a gardener. This is after all a garden forum. These are dull, university papers posted continuously. Can you hand on heart say you've ploughed through any of this stuff and come out the other end having gained anything?
There are rose diseases out there that are important to those of us in North America. What is in the scientific papers (Yes, I do read them) is important to many of us for the continued health and survival of our gardens.
Do a search about Downey Mildew. Then do a search about Chili Thrips. Then look to Rose Rosette.
Then thank your lucky stars that so far, these pestilences aren't being propagated in your part of the rose world by people who can't be bothered to learn about both the good and bad sides of rose growing.
I would guess that the remaining cane was injured by cold and will not support much if any bloom. I would take it out to encourage healthy new growth. Recovery from this treatment depends on how much root mass the rose has. Just this morning I pruned a rose nearly to the ground that I thought had come through winter OK, but was damaged. This was an established plant, so I'm sure it will be fine. I'm not sure about yours.
IME, a lot of Austins aren't really suitable for being grown own-root. They just sit there, don't get much bigger, then die back. Since most people growing them in the northeast, get them budded from Canada, there doesn't seem to be a lot of info in how they do around here without a rootstock to push them. Organic fertilizer will help, as will HEAT.
My recollection is that Mary Rose has a heavily damask scent. It also was a blackspot magnet.
Thank you, Charleney, for your comments. Though there is more than one trunk (is "trunk" the proper term?), this trunk in the tallest and most rose-filled of my Golden Showers climbing rose. The slice out of the trunk is within a foot of ground level, so I hate to think it might need to be cut back. I must rely on you kind folks with more knowledge than I on caring for roses and will remain patience to see what happens.
I started like you. Please look around this forum... Not sure where you purchased it from but some retailers are notorious for mislabeling and not great quality. I was discouraged the first year after all three expensive roses died, and then found these forums...including which roses do well in my area, which ones need spraying for disease, etc...
Here it is.
Here is a link that might be useful: Antique forum link
Great to know that GC is vigorous. I planted it in the back of the border behind so it should feel free to spot away. I have a Blaze Improved that spots like there is no tomorrow each year, but the spotting does not seem to affect its health all that much. It is in the middle of Laguna and Cinderela Fairy Tale (which I am training as a small climber). Both Laguna and CFT basically get no spot at all, and they help to hide BI's naked limbs.
Yes, Crocus Rose has been a carefree rose for me. I have a 3-year (or 4-year) old ownroot that is doing great. Very blackspot resistant. It is tip hardy here as well. Both the bloom and fragrance is so so, but no one is perfect. I like it a lot.
Thanks
The thing about growing roses in our area is that some blackspot is inevitable, even if you spray, for many roses. As a result, my expectations are more lax than those of someone who exhibits, or who wants roses to be "on" all-season. Personally, I'm fine if a rose is growing and blooming despite getting spotty leaves during "that time of year." It's when a rose starts losing the battle and dying back, or simply "never looking good" that I would consider getting rid of it.
'Golden Celebration' did get blackspot back on Long Island, but it continued growing bigger each year, and had beautiful flowers, so I kept it. Yes, it looked a little sad for a few weeks in late July and early August, but those leaves were soon replaced, and it was fresh and clean again in time for the last flush of flowers. I bought it again this time because with so many antiques, I was aching for a bit of yellow to throw in. Are there healthier yellows out there? Probably. But I wanted GC again, so I got it. If you need to have your roses spot-free all season in NJ, be prepared to spray, and be willing to have a limited set of choices.
:-)
~Christopher
All of my roses in Green Bay WI died back to the ground or almost to the ground this year. Most are now growing robust shoots up from the base. I just cut back the dead wood to make room for the new growth on Carefree Wonder, Bonica, Nearly Wild, Seven Sisters, Double Red Knockout, and a few others. It was a really tough winter for us.
The single stem, "high center" roses you saw at the florist are hybrid teas, although I think there are high centered floribundas too. I am novice who grows very few hybrid teas. Assuming that hardiness is not an issue, here are one red, one peach/apricot HTs get limited blackspot in my Northeast NJ garden.
Red
Firefighter (Mine died back to the ground this winter, and is slow to come back.)
Peach/Apricot
Valencia (Mine was in a pot and overwintered in my garage)
Both are borderline here in zone 6b in terms of hardiness. Zone 5 might be a bit challenge for HTs, but it seems that quite a few people on this forum grow HTs successfully in colder climate than mine.
Good luck.
The following was stated: "If they can prove the therory to be correct in which your articles speak then no doubt they will ban those types of sprays from the market someday... "
H.Kuska comment. It would be nice if we lived in a perfect world. The following statement appears in a very recent published, reviewed scientific paper. "This inconsistency between scientific fact and industrial claim may be attributed to huge economic interests, which have been found to falsify health risk assessments and delay health policy decisions [41]."
H.Kuska comment. Reference 41 is: "41. European Environment Agency. EEA Report. Copenhagen, Denmark: European Environment Agency; 2013. Late lessons from early warnings: science, precaution, innovation."
Regarding tebuconazole they state: "In fact, 8 formulations out of 9 were clearly on average several hundred times more toxic than their APs, ranging from 2-3 times more toxic for pirimicarb or prochloraz to 1056 times more toxic for tebuconazole. Results were similar for all cell types."
Here is a link that might be useful: link to recent scientific paper
I recently bought one and I greatly regret it. The flower is lovely but doesn't last a day before it drops all its petals. You can't use it as a cut flower because it drops all it's petals once it opens. It looks messy with all the petals underneath and the wilts if the temps get over 80. I am going to pull it out because I can't stand looking at the mess.
I have my Claire Austin pillared on a 4x4, and I'm very pleased with this rose. The blooms start out facing up, but when heavy with petals they turn downward; a beautiful effect for the way I'm using it. The canes are pliable and easy to work with, but the thorns make me pay attention when I'm pillaring.
I keep hearing that the blooms shatter quickly, but I have yet to get an answer from anyone what "quickly" means -- mine seem to last for close to a week, and I've never seen one shatter after only one day. That it eventually shatters is a plus for me, since it saves me the work of deadheading. I have not cut this rose for a vase, so I can't comment on vase life, but the roses on this very young shrub have weak necks. Alnwick, with it's upright habit and heavenly raspberry fragrance might be a better choice for a cut rose.
This is a new rose for me, so I don't know how it will perform over time. I haven't seen Claire with a major flush yet, but it always has a few lovely blooms. The climate here is hot and dry, and our weather has been erratic since I've planted this rose, jumping from 50's to 102F soon after planting it; 70's to high 90's since. I planted it in well amended peaty/composty soil (not a planting hole -- I amended the whole bed), and it gets drip irrigation with a good hosing off about once a week. Has not been fed or fertilized yet. Picture is below.
jannike