22,151 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

Like the copper plant markers in their various forms & find the legged & angled ones that can be embossed with a pen or scribe most useful. Sometimes add the long twist-on labels to the legged one if wanting to note more info. These last many years for me even in acidic soil - the galvanized legs are eventually vulnerable, but the copper strips endure. Easily repositioned toward the edge as plants mature or are shifted, or (sigh) removed if they fail. The zinc ones apparently work the same but worried they might toxify the soil, never tried them.

Map plants, too - pen & pad tucked in the tool bucket for rough sketch notes & updates made to penciled diagrams afterwards. But out in the garden, find it easier to find & read a marker than sidetrack inside to the map notebook.

Didn't know they made metal tape for the marker machines - thanks for the tip, cold_weather_is_evil! Will look into that option when my shoebox stash of copper labels empties. Miss the metal tags that used to come with roses, too...

Here is a link that might be useful: copper plant markers variety

This post was edited by vasue on Mon, May 19, 14 at 12:42

Thanks, cold_weather_is_evil, I was not aware of metal tape. That might be something I use in the future. And vasue, I had also considered copper markers. I do like the looks of them, but my handwriting is no so neat.

Diane, I was not aware that Frank Benardella was the founder of Harlane. Did he develop these markers? I've admired his mini roses for many years, and owned more than a few. I had forgotten he was from NJ. I was deeply saddened to hear of his passing, it seemed the end of an era for rose lovers. And your suggestion of painted name rocks is a good one. This could be really neat if done right. Another idea to consider.

Right now I've decided on the dark green Harlanes with white letters, should both blend in the garden but be easily readable. I've placed an order for 25 engraved labels for my definite "keepers", will see how I like them before ordering more. I'd still love to see your pics of them in the garden, if you get a chance.

Thank you Seil for your experienced advice, I appreciate it.

The rose looks good to me.

If you want climbers to be their fullest, you need to train the shoots to go horizontally, not vertically. It's a pattern called espalier. Not sure how you would do that with your setup. You need some more lattice off to the sides. What happens is the new growth will go up vertically from the thick horizontal branches and those will produce blooms. You can then train the new growth on the ends to extend even further horizontally if you want. Trim off the old shoots when they stop growing this year.

Thanks all for your input!!! I should have mentioned that I have only a little boarder garden, so the GC will definitely not be in front or behind anything that it could swallow up. The only things in front of it are low growing companion plants, and if they get covered a little, that is just ok with me because it means more roses! My plans for the garden have changed so much since I posted the above thread, thanks to all your advice, and to much more research into these species.
I decided to plant the GC on the side that receives some afternoon shade, not because I am afraid of color loss, but because there is more space & there will be more room between plants on that side, AND because of the elevation of the porch from the ground is slightly higher on that side due to a slope in my yard, so when the GC inevitably grows huge and tall, it will actually be beneficial because I will be able to see the flowers from the porch, instead of having to look down at them.
I only have small concern that GC may expand width wise more than I expect, she is planted in between an Ebb Tide and a very young Lady of Shalott. GC is slightly downhill from the ET (hopefully this helps ET not get eaten), and then even further down the slope is the young lady of shalott. I want to get some kind of support for GC and LOS so that they can grow vertically more than horizontally, and maybe eventually provide somewhat of a lovely privacy barrier for the porch. All I hear about these two roses is that they are both strong growers & can get quite enormous-so maybe this is possible? I am having trouble finding a support that looks strong but doesn't break the bank, & that could possibly also eventually support bot GC and LOS, or maybe some style that I could get a second one of for LOS, but still want to avoid looking overly cluttered..... hmm....

Here is the side garden, again the GC is the big one in the middle, Ebb Tide is on the left, and the young Lady of shalott is on the right. Please ignore the mess, I literally JUST planted these when this was taken, I still need to move some small things around and add mulch, but here is what I've got so far:

Jessica, you've done a great job for a very promising beginning! Like your approach & the way you've arranged the bed. Saw your post last night before shuttintg down. Came back today & first stopped at your "have you used a support like this for a rose?" thread. Should have landed here first - to check the actual height of the wall. Somehow had the impression it was much higher. Please forgive my blathering about tall trellises on the other thread - duh!

Looks like the porch ledge with the pot & planter is around 6-8' long? Lattice panels, with the "boxes" set overlapping either horizontally or diagonally, come in 4x8 standard sizes. You could set uprights to frame the porch opening & support the lattice, stacked vertically if appropriate to the area you decide to cover. You could cut a porthole or diamond "window" in the center of the lattice that extends above the ledge & edge it with flexible molding. If the wall to the right of the Lady would accommodate it, you could extend the lattice on that, too, needing a third upright at the far end downslope. That would give you the uniform, uncluttered custom look you may be after. Not a difficult job for the handy homeowner, especially if you use the twist or pound-in fittings to set the uprights.

Another option that comes to mind is to use a garden arch spanning the side of the porch (or wider) parallel to the porch & house, spaced so it sits in the bed a bit away from the wall. The climbers could be guided to the arch supports as well as fanning through the empty space, and the whole would provide an "awning" effect along the top of the porch opening. The top could be arched or squared. That could be made with uprights & crosspieces, lattice or crossbars or both could be incorporated into the design on the sides, top and/or wall & opening, using the same type of components as in the link. If you don't feel up to building such a structure, you could look into metal pipe fit-together arch kits & modify to fit your space.

Ran into (another) irresistible sale some years back for this type of metal tubing garden arch. They're often used for wedding arches as well & easy to come by this time of year in crafts stores, among others. Come boxed as kits to assemble, with straight & curved pieces that join together with holes drilled for screws to hold rigid. J&P & other gardening sites sell them for $80 & upwards, but they can be found for a fraction of that in white or green. With two sets, the pieces can be combined to make one set of legs longer (which you'd need for the slope) or widen the top span. You can use half an arch placed so it bends backwards toward the house wall or other support. Originally picked up 10 of these at $5 a pop to use as 3-D design models for arch tunnels & rings, sort of a giant erector set. One's been up a few years now, meant to support a vine temporarily while the porch arches were painted, and surprisingly has no signs of weathering as yet.

Might want to keep an eye on the downslope end of your new bed, to see if heavy rain tends to wash away the mulch & erode the soil there. If so, those build-by-block garden wall stones might be installed to prevent that & the end of the bed leveled a bit more. May be unnecessary, but keep an eye out.

When faced with a design challenge, often print multiple copies of pictures & draw on them to visualize the options & compare. What do you envision there?

Here is a link that might be useful: lattice panels & fittings

It'll be fine. Some rose producers ship out roses called bare roots and those are just the thicker roots with none of the small feeder roots attached. The roses still survive. As mzstitch said, it will just take it a while to regrow any roots it lost so it may not show much growth up top for a bit. But they catch up quick and I'm sure your's will be growing again in no time!

Keep an eye on the rose. If it starts wilting, make sure the soil is drenched and consider chopping off much of the top growth. Better to lose some growth than the entire rose.

It would be helpful to know where you are because some places have a higher black spot pressure than others. There are also different strains of black spot. Also knowing what roses they are, at least the type, helps too because some roses are more susceptible than others as well. Otherwise follow the advice above and it should get it under control.

I see it here consistently in the spring, and it's just the location, weather, and the rose's disease tolerance. I try to choose resistant varieties and still always see some when the weather is right for it.

I spray with the Bayer mentioned above, because you really don't have to spray it as a preventative like most rose fungicides. I spray after I see enough symptoms, which is a nice change from the older fungicides :) I usually only have to spray several roses in the spring, then maybe one or two roses a year when it's hotter and drier here. I don't spray for a minor case, myself, unless the rose is quite young and needs every leaf it can get.

Good luck!

I've read that one of the reasons wildlife likes our gardens is the lushness of the plantings - the water in them. One lady put a bucket under a drippy tap, which pretty much stayed full from then on, and the wildlife starting drinking from the bucket and predated a lot less on her flowers and veg.

Deer love roses, particularly HT. New rose growth is put in gourmet salads. The deer get it for free. The new growth is the precursor to blooms.

Other than roses, the deer's favorite food in my yard is scrub oak and Buckeye, both native plants. After 25 years the deer took a liking to my agapanthus and have continued to gnaw on what is left of it. Not much water there. They occasionally pull a leaf of a loquat tree.
They won't even think about touching my lemons. I also have a very large grouping of abelias that they won't touch. The agapanthus was a real shocker.

I don't think that first support is big enough for Golden Celebration. To keep life simple, I would probably just purchase a wire-type garden "fence" (I don't know what HD and those places actually call them)--one that was about 2.5-3 ft tall and circle it around the plant, letting it grow naturally upward in the middle.

My Munstead Wood is one year old and a bit "floppy" (though not real bad). So far, I use the single bloom supports and position them strategically under a couple of the blooms that are too top-heavy for the slender canes. Obviously I have to move them around later as different blooms start weighing down different canes. I'm hoping MW's canes will toughen up in a year or two, or, as it gets bigger, I may have to get one of those wire-type garden "fences" about 1.5 ft tall to circle around MW and keep those canes from totally falling over.

Since MW is a smaller rose, you can also just take a v-shaped twiglet from a fallen tree limb and insert under the top-heavy cane. Makes a great "natural" support, very inconspicuous. I often do that also.

Kate

Agree this won't work - rather a glorified peony ring, the sort you put up when the stems of a perennial are still short so they can grow through the grid. You can find a large diameter ring without the grid for about $5 at Walmart & other box store garden centers. Look for the kind that has a hook at each end of the ring itself, so the circle can be opened to place around the plant without trying to thread branches through a solid ring. The legs just hang from the ring, so you fit the ring higher than needed, slide the legs to position (splayed works well), push in & then close the hooks to complete the ring. These come with various circumference & leg lengths & perhaps you could use 2 or 3 on Munstead Wood at staggered heights, relieving any pressure from the ring against the canes by giving it supports at several points. Never tried it with roses, but they work fine with tall phlox, monarda, any plant that tends to flop open at the center. May be worth a try, since they're so inexpensive. Have tried the half-round stake-in supports you show from that company & have them in different widths & leg lengths. Find them quick props for whoopsy situations but not great for longer use. Having only 2 legs, they need to be pushed in on angle toward the plant since the branches bow them outwards. More than one becomes necessary & twist-ties to stabilize them relative to each other. Find the rings more useful, though the leg positioning can take some fiddling. Another stake slightly smaller than the legs can be helpful for making the initial soil groove the legs can then be set in firmly. Mark the stake with a piece of masking tape for the depth you want the legs to penetrate the soil so you end up with the support horizontal rather than crazy angles, same as you'd set an obelisk or arbor. Lowes & others also carry leafy or curvy 2-5' double-pronged stakes for $10-15 that might work to support MW's branches. Foldable rabbit-fencing type garden edging with ground spikes & looped tops comes in low & knee-high versions & could be fitted around MW. Have even used croquet wickets in a pinch...

I've used tomato cages, often snipping them vertically & stretching them out to form semicircles for support. Usually place them upside down - the legs sticking up & soil staples securing the ring at the bottom - with the now topside legs gathered into a finial like the terracotta balls sold for bamboo cane toppers. If they've been snipped lengthwise to fit around a plant, green zipties hold them together again & are easily cut for removal. (Also fits well in pots & looks classical. Good for vines & topiary frames, too, as well as cones planted like "living wreaths".)

For Golden Celebration, you might try a curved trellis such as the one in the link. Even two of these would be no more pricey than the support you've shown, and may actually prove useful. You've got the wall behind GC, so you could support the naturally arching canes with one of these to the front, one at either side, 2 side-by-side to form a semicircle around the front, or placed at the rear with the arms curving toward the rose. I've seen these in person - they're hefty & made well for the price. Considering one myself, imagining sliding seashells or Christmas balls over the arrow points to make them less formal in this country garden, though they are classically traditional as they are. You could also do a modified espalier using the suction-cup anchors sold for vines on the wall with monofilament line, making the support invisible.

Dura-Trel makes some good-looking & reasonably priced trellises in gray & mocha as well as white, some broad & tall enough to cover a wall, with a 6-footer running around $50. The wall one can be found for $120 & free ship, and might be used to run up the wall behind your rose & continue past the wall to form a "railing" to that end of your porch. Tall trellises can be hard to find - Plow & Hearth carries a couple metal ones reasonably priced. Many use the livestock panels available at farm supply stores. A length of modular garden fence set in front of the bed might keep GC in bounds for a while. There are so many options out there.

Left the GC here to grow unbound the first couple of years while considering how to provide support. Unlike yours, that one's in the center of a wide bed, so in no danger of sprawling to snag passersby. Wound up assembling a copper pipe obelisk 2' square by 9' high around the rose, the kind with ogee curves at the top held by a ball finial. GC's corraled within the structure rather than tied in & arches gracefully along the cross-bars as a tall fountain. Copper obelisks can be pricey to buy, but they're simple to construct with pipe fittings & a pipe cutter with no soldering required. Found mine some years back as a garden store display irresistibly discounted & stored it knocked-down till it, finally, came to mind when pondering how to support Golden Celebration after perusing many possibilities. Seems your GC's in no immediate need, so maybe keep exploring the possibilites...

This post was edited by vasue on Mon, May 19, 14 at 12:51

Oooh! Or more frugally, the leftover iris leaves.

For mulch, buy a bag from HD or Wal-Mart (or such place) of pine-bark mulch--or other type if you want a different color. Just costs a couple dollars.

Kate

Ooooh!!! That is electric!!!
Looks like a great shrub with lots of flowers. I can see why you keep it!
Carol

Thank you ladies. Seil - I think that would be a good name for it too! Carol - it is an unusual rose, sometimes the blooms are quite lovely, in the fall especially.



I just bought this little 'greenhouse' of peat pelletts. I am going to use it to start some cuttings. It's small, so I will have to cut the canes shorter than usual. But worth a shot.

Thanks a lot Buford, for the detailed information. I followed your instruction and let's see what will happen.
There is an interesting finding today, when I was transferring one of my bare root roses, I found one cane which is in "check" shape got new root on the lowest part. Because I buried the rose too deep, the lowest part of the cane and bud joint were buried inside the soil. I guess if I separate the cane from the plant, I will get a new rose. This cane is a new sprout that started after I planted the whole thing in a pot. Therefore, I thought a new way to propagate rose. Burying part of a sprout into the soil without cutting it off and let it root underneath. This way, there is no need for covers and peat pellets.

If you like damask scent arizsun, you might like to try something I bought at Target, Botanic's Rosewater Toning Spritz, 100% Organic. It was developed with plant extracts from Kew Royal Botanic Gardens. It smells heavenly!!! Very strong damask fragrance. Ingredients: Aqua (water), Alcohol denat, Glycerin, Rosa damascena flower oil, Citronellol.

I grow both Rose de Rescht and Pickering Four Seasons. Both have wonderful scent, but both are also smallish plants and don't climb. RdR has the better rebloom.

I have a magnificent damask with a powerful fragrance called York and Lancaster which I've grown for over 20 years in partial shade (bottom of plant in full shade, top of plant in full sun most of the day). It is now up on my roof but would only be able to climb with lots of support (wants to be floppy). However there is zero rebloom.

You might want to try Portland from Glendora. Wonderful, strong scent. This rose has fairly good rebloom and is quite willing to climb. If you want a headstart in getting it to a large size, I would suggest buying from Antique Rose Emporium in Texas. The shipping can be expensive but that is because they send out such big plants. One of my favorite vendors.

Comtesse O'Gorman is a hybrid perpetual that has a heavy, dreamy scent and climbing tendencies. I don't think it is in commerce at present unfortunately. It is red though, not pink.

Cl. Chrysler Imperial is another worth considering, if you can find it. It's a climbing hybrid tea with powerful fragrance and a liking for heat. Very good rebloom. I had 2 that perished in a wildfire in 2003. I have been unable to find replacements. :(

Another suggestion that you can look up on HelpMeFind is Yolande d'Aragon (I've seen it grow much taller than HMF indicates),

Or check out the damask/portland roses at Greenmantle Nursery and give Marissa a call there. She is very knowledgeable.

Melissa

Here is a link that might be useful: Damask and Portland Roses at Greenmantle

I forgot one, Stanwell Perpetual, I guess because I think of it more of as a spinosissima since it has the tiny leaves typical of the class. Flowers are all damask in looks and perfume to me. HMF says it is only moderately fragrant. Not in my garden. Here, the fragrance is quite strong. I have 2 plants of it. One is over 5 feet tall at around 3 years old and showing signs now of getting much bigger. This one is from Heirloom Roses in Oregon and has been blooming almost continuously since January. Blooms are a pale pink that fades to white in intense sun. I have another one of the same age from Rogue Valley Roses. This one is only maybe one foot tall and rarely blooms. A dud.

Melissa

Here is a link that might be useful: Stanwell Perpetual on HMF

The thing you have to remember is that a lot of the things we've traditionally been taught for decades about growing roses are changing as new technology and research has developed. Like a lot of aspects of our lives times change with new knowledge. So much scientific research has been done now on exactly how the plants grow and react to pathogens that many of the old ways are now being updated. But some people are quicker to accept new things than others so the old methods persist in being put out there. It doesn't mean that one way is all wrong or another is all right. It just means there is more than one way to do any of it. Like I said before, experiment and do what works best for you and your roses.

Water on the foliage will cause blackspot to germinate if it stays wet for around 8 hours. So don't wet the foliage in the evenings.

Hosing down the foliage does help control mildew, but mildew is not usually a problem in the East except for maritime New England. I don't do it because it wastes water.