22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

I dug around it. The big fat leaves are growing from above the soil where it was dormant. The tiny leaves are growing from way deep beneath the earth! So I broke off all the tiny leaf pieces

You need to dig down on the side where the cane with the tiny leaves was and find the bottom of that cane where it is growing out of the trunk under the ground and cut it off flush with the side of the trunk and then put the dirt you dug back. Just breaking off the cane or leaves does nothing except make it grow more.

Jackie

"...that was hardy down only to zone 6 rarely made it here."

There is either a typo or confusion in that statement (disregarding potential misrepresentation on labels).

Needing a heat zone map or guide is, of course, a matter of opinion: however, well written reports of USDA hardiness zones EXCLUDE zones where COLD isn't an issue but the plant would not thrive or survive because of the heat. For example: Zones 6-8 (not 1 -5 nor 9 or warmer).

IF more people would study, research, and learn in order to be better gardeners, there would be fewer complaints about such things. No amount of guidance will provide success like knowledge, skill, and experience. Ultimately the onus is upon the person planting.

Fortunately, heat is mostly not an issue for ROSES grown with good cultural practices (zones 10+ excluded).

There is a Heat Zone Map done by the American Horticultural Society - link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: American Horticultural Society Gardening Maps

The USDA Hardiness zones are based on average lows over a set period of time and the temperature spreads used to indicate what is typical for each zone show those average ranges. They do not show the coldest temperatures recorded in each zone - statements like "we had a Zone _ winter" are meaningless when based on one or a few low temperatures, there is no individual temperature associated with any one zone specifically.

I have had temperatures below 10 degrees F. at least a few times here. That does not put me in Zone 7, or mean that I "had a Zone 7 winter".

Zip code based zone finders always put me in the wrong zone (7), catalogs frequently say Zone 8 plants are hardy to Zone 7 - this no doubt again based on the idea that if a plant survives something between 0 and 10 degrees F. that means it is hardy to "Zone 7 temperatures". Nevermind that some day it will have to come through -5 degrees F., -10 degrees F. or worse to persist in Zone 7.

And I think anyway many items are being rated by venders as hardy to Zone 7 because they start to kill back or die outright at around 10 degrees F. - an obvious fudging from the start, apart from the other factors involved.

Kate
Thanks about the David Austins; i have always loved them. Wedgwood looks divine and has a small as well. How does it do in terms of repeat?

And I used to buy bare rooted, but it is too late now . So I will have to buy plants. This might limit my choices somewhat. I have decided I will have room for 4 climbers!
Diane_NJ- how does Caramel Fairy Tale do in terms of repeat? any fragrance? Again I might have trouble finding this year, but for a spectacular rose I suppose I could wait until fall.

Kate, where have you seen these in the New York area? There aren't a lot of places around here where the public has access to roses grown no spray, and I'm always on the lookout for visiting possibilities.

Along the same lines, Sailgranny, if you do decide to plant some Easy Elegance roses, do post an update on how they do for you. I've also been interested in them for a while, but put off by the total lack of local, no spray input. I'm not currently planting at home, but at a public garden. So instead of planting onesies and twosies, I'm dealing with twentyies and thirtyies. It makes it hard to stray from the beaten path.

I've seen some pretty horrific pruning jobs that sprang back better than ever. It's like Kim said, if it has the strength it will find a way to grow. I'm seeing many of mine out there that will probably need to be pruned to the graft but I'm not worried yet. Once they're pruned and things really warm up I'm betting most of them will rebound.

That's what I've seen repeatedly for over thirty years, Seil. As long as they're not eaten into or past the bud union, roses attacked by deer and rabbits usually come back too. Add to it Syl Arena's laughing comment years ago about customers wanting long canes with long roots, and he'd go out to the fields, rip a budded plant from the ground, whack it back to the nubs on both top and bottom and it would always explode into growth when planted in his gardens. As long as the plant isn't dried out, frozen beyond resurrection or otherwise too awfully stressed, it will do all it can to make a liar out of you. Just like dogs and kids! Kim

Take them out of the pots they're in and plant them in the ground now. They are not too small. They will have a better chance of growing and establishing a large root ball to carry them through their first winter if you plant them now. If you wait until fall there's always a chance that they won't be established enough before the cold sets in. If it's anything like this last winter it came early and was relentless.

thank you for the responses. I will plant them this weekend.

You are welcome. I realized that I have bought bareroots from Hortico and S&W Greenhouse (on-line) and Weeks (in a local nursery) as well. I think mid and lower twenty is the norm (or at least for the nurserise I have bought from).

seil, hoovb, farmerduck - thanks for your input

farmerduck - thanks for the link and I certainly hope my DB will be breathtaking too! The link was nice although I don't bury my grafts because I want the biggest bloom production possible and I can always cover with leaves during a rare cold blast

I remember an earlier conversation about some gardeners with alkaline soil having Munstead Woods that were more pinkish than dark purple/dark wine red like it grows in my garden. They concluded the alkaline soil accounted for the difference in colors. I don't really know. I'm not even sure what kind of soil I have--except that I assume it is "average" since my macro hydrangea tends to bloom lavender or part pink and part bluish.

I am curious to see if anyone has any scientific information to prove/disprove the alkaline-color theory.

Kate

I was cleaning the birdbath and testing to see if it would clear up the leaves of choriotic growth on reine des violettes, it gets too much gray water. It was just a splash and the leaves greened up and it was well watered in. But I decided that since I use vinegar as a weed killer on the street. I should skip using it in the garden

This year we just used the eb stone fertilizer for acid loving plants and a top coat of their acid lovers potting soil

The blooms are the same hot pink, same with Munstead Wood, I think the weather has more to do with bloom color.

A better test would be to try it on one of a pair of plants in the same potting mix in the same conditions and see if it makes a difference over time and how the plant grows

No.

Kate

Many years I cut off dead canes right down to ground level ( I bury my bud union 3-4" below ground) & I rarely lose a rose to winter kill. Be patient with HT's & Gr's as they are slow to wake up. I have both mf & Dr. Huey rootstock & don't see a big difference in either one in my z4 garden.

My guess would be that bands are more successful in warmer areas where there is a much longer growing season and the winters are mild. I plant mine straight into the ground after about ten days and they've all done well, but even for me that first year is somewhat excruciating. It also depends on the variety; some roses are just inherently more vigorous than others on their own roots.

Ingrid

VERY true on the fact that many modern roses particularly HT's and Floribundas grow SLOWLY on their own roots. Some of the newest ht's and floribundas grow better on their own roots because in recent years the hybridizers have been growing the seedlings up on their own roots and so they know which new rose varieties can be grown own root.

Pretty much any rose that was introduced back in the stone ages of rose growing, 1800-1925 will grow very well on it's own roots and even a band size bush will grow quickly into the size that you desire. Polyantha's which started to be introduced in the early 1900's all do fantastic on their own roots. Floribundas which are a combination of polyanthas and hybrid teas by breeding in some cases grow very well and in other cases not so well.