21,402 Garden Web Discussions | Roses



No need to wait until they bloom... You can post clear closeup pics of any spotted leaves etc.
So the problem can be positively ID-ed...
If you want to know the name of your rose bushes then you would need clear pics of the entire rose bush, blooms, leaves, branching, etc.

Of the four roses I planted, DD is doing the poorest. It was a young plant and got sprayed with a lot of deer repellant when it was young. If it doesn't shape up by the end of the season, I will replace it with another DD next winter. I've had excellent luck with DD in the past in the same garden.

There are many reasons a bloom may pancake. It's just that at this time of year, heat is the most likely suspect. The growth and nourishment normally required for the bloom is short-circuited by the tremendous pressure on the bud to open. Lack of water can excerbate this, too.
St. Patrick is known for being hugely heat-tolerant, but under the right conditions during high-heat, its blooms will pancake with consistency. Double Delight is another one I've seen do this. Mister Lincoln will do it, too.
Some roses get smaller under heat stress, some pancake, some do both.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts it's Fragrant Lavender Simplicity. Kim
Here is a link that might be useful: Fragrant Lavender Simplicity

Nickl's advice is a good rule of thumb for gauging your preferences for how your garden looks. Another thing to consider is competition for water resources, and how much water your rose and companion plants want. A well-established rose might be able to share water with a perennial where a new planting might be happier with more space around it. If water is a low commodity (as in California), I'd think folks would keep the perennials farther away and save the water for the roses. In VT, you probably have enough water to go around.
You also want to consider the water conditions each plant wants, which is why lavender may be a poor companion for roses in some places, since they want it drier than roses do. Coreopsis is pretty adaptable so it should be fine if the rose is fine. I'm definitely on the cottage garden side of things, so there are perennials or other plants bumping up against virtually all my roses, or at least within the drip lines, and they're usually fine with that. The only thing I have to watch is to make sure the mulch doesn't gather up too much around the woody base of the rose, or it'll encourage canker.
If you like the look of the coreopsis under the rose, and the threadlead variety should stay low enough not to compete for vertical space, then you could try letting it share the space for a while and watch the roses for signs of water stress (or canker). If they seem happy, then you can suit yourself as fits your style.
Cynthia

Thanks. Right now, in Vermont, we're drowning in rain, but even under normal conditions, water isn't an issue. I guess I was more concerned about the coreopsis shading the bottom of the rose and hurting it that way. It is certainly within the drip line of the rose. It's not really an esthetic issue, but canker might be a possibility with the rain we've had. Thanks for the responses.

I wish I knew! When I bought my first (and only) house in 1984, I inherited 9 roses in various parts of the yard. Some of them had been started from cuttings the previous owner had taken at his church. The only rose he knew the name of was Double Delight. I suspect one of the others is Queen Elizabeth and one might be Peace, but the other 6 I've never identified. The DD is gone as is a pink that was never very good, QE is on her last legs along with a hot pink one at the back of the property. However, I still have two yellow roses that never give up, the Peace is always scrawny but is hanging in there, and there are an unidentified red and a red/orange blend still going strong.
When I first moved in, I was so afraid of killing them all that I did a lot of research to learn to grow them properly. Over the years I've added more and more roses - I think I'm up near 50 now - and to my mind, the best thing I've learned is that they are champion survivors. Whether I care for them religiously or neglect them seriously, they just keep going, still blooming beautifully! I do try not to neglect them, but I have also begun to ease off and let them do their own thing. They seem happiest that way!


Hi Zaphod
First, to be perfectly honest, I'm an unrepentant zone pusher and I don't mind trying roses that aren't supposed to be hardy in my zone only to find that they are. There may be some roses that'll survive in MY zone 5 (but not other zone 5 areas) because we have really hot dry summers, which may give them a stronger start to survive the winters. Also, I do winter protect the roses with leaves around their bases, though I've been getting slacker about that in the past few years.
Having said that, I grow Peggy Rockefeller in the ground, an own root from Roses Unlimited. She's on the side of my house that's a zone 4 pocket, so that speaks well to her winter survival odds. As I recall, I think she's one of the roses that appreciates having the winter protection and I usually remove most of her cane that's above the protection (in that case, it's an intact bag of leaves rolled up against her side for the winter). Still, I think she's at least root hardy in my zone, and I'd definitely give her a try. She has a great dark red color and grows at least 3 feet for me, probably average on the blackspot resistance. By now, the BS sensitive roses have defoliated for a while, but she's OK (I'm also pretty tolerant of BS, though).
Cynthia

To check for water logging, you can stick a pry bar or something 8"-12" deep and sniff for the smell of sewage or anaerobic decay. The simplest treatment for poor drainage is to raise the soil level around the rose six inches above grade, in a couple of stages. The rose will adapt by sending feeder roots into the drainable soil. Most feeder roots are quite near the surface because they need oxygen.
However, if the rose has been waterlogged for months, I think the leaves would have died and dropped off long since. But then, necrotic (dead, brown) spots are not normally characteristic of RMV. Also RMV usually shows as soon as the leaves expand.
Cupping of leaves could result from deficiency of calcium or molybdenum, from powdery mildew, or just at random. I don't think the discoloration you have is characteristic of Ca or Mb deficiency.

Although the name RMV has been utilized in this discussion, one does not know which virus or group of viruses is/are giving these symptoms (if it is virus caused). Leaf cupping is often listed as a possible rose virus result. The link below is rather old (1998), but it appears (to me) to be years ahead of its time regarding the viruses of roses.
"In general, symptoms of virus and viruslike infections that are visible on the leaf may include overall chlorosis (yellowing) or chlorotic mottling; yellowing, or clearing of the veins; green or brown banding of veins (a dark green or brown color that parallels the veins); yellowish green to bright yellow spots and blotches; and various fine lines, some resembling an âÂÂoakleafâ pattern and others appearing as erratic, wavy âÂÂwatermarks,â or as definite rings (Figure 1). The leaves may also be misshapen, puckered, recurved, cupped, twisted, brittle, and smaller than normal. In some cases, the leaves are cast prematurely. Canes often have shorter than normal internodes, resulting in stunting or severe dwarfing of the plant, or a âÂÂballingâ (rosette growth) of the new terminal growth. In some cases, there is severe cane dieback. Only one or a few canes of a plant may exhibit symptoms, or the entire plant may be affected.
With some of these diseases, only the new leaves and canes develop symptoms; with others, it is the mature, older leaves and canes that are visibly affected. Usually, the higher temperatures and drier conditions of summer inhibit virus or virus like activity in the plant. As a result, rose plants that had symptoms of infection in the spring commonly resume normal or near-normal growth in summer. With a return of cooler temperatures in autumn, symptoms often reappear, depending on the variety of rose, the strain of the virus or other agent, and environmental conditions. Although rose plants may seemingly tolerate infection, with symptoms appearing and then disappearing during the year, the agent does exert an overall debilitating effect and may eventually kill the plant. Aside from the acute symptoms that develop on leaves and stems, the plant suffers a chronic decline in vigor that, in cooler climates, increases the chances of winter-kill. Infected plants also show a decline in flower production and quality. Flower petals may show mottling, distortion, and line
markings."
Here is a link that might be useful: link to 1988 article

If I take 8" (or 30") of stem with a spent flower, I call it "deep deadheading." If the rose is too small, I just snap and take no stem. If it is too tall or floppy, I take 1-3 feet of stem. That could also be called "summer pruning," but you would only do it when taking a spent flower off, so it is also deadheading. I think we all understand that, when taking stem off, you should cut just above a leaf. When snapping a peduncle, you don't have to worry about that.


Hi poorbutroserich
FYI, all yours are OGRs
Hippolyte - Gallica
Apothecary(?) [assuming it is R. gallica officinalis] - Species
Nuits de Young - Moss
Duc de Cambridge - Damask
Orpheline de Juliet - Hybrid Gallica
Complicata - Hybrid Gallica
'Own Root Damask' - a Damask I am assuming.
Gallicas as a class, and R. gallica itself, usually don't get black spot but do get mildew. Your others are generally susceptible to both.
Those are all once-bloomers, however, and are pretty much finished here before diseases show up. We don't see the point of applying a fungicide to a rose that's done for the season, so we don't use one on any of our once-blooming roses
However, on our repeating OGRs , we do use fungicides as needed for the specific rose.






Shoots go blind because they run short of water or chemical energy. Chemical energy is sugars and starches stored in the tissues below. Sugars and starches are manufactured by leaves in sunlight. The blind shoot now consists of leaves in sunlight, producing food energy for the plant.
A clump of blind shoots on an established plant usually means something is wrong with the underlying cane (canker or winter damage). These canes should be removed as they will never support strong growth and good flowering. Meanwhile they may be casting shade on healthier foliage.
However, blind shoots on a young or weak plant are normal. They are beneficial and should be left alone. The only thing that can build strength for growth in a plant is leaves in sunlight.
In greenhouse rose production, there is a technique called "bent canopy." They break the blind shoots over and let them hang in the aisle to catch sunlight and feed energy into the plant. This maximizes the amount of photosynthesis and increases cut rose production.
Michaelg--apologies to original poster for hijack--I've been on these rose forum boards for 10 + years and continue to learn so much from your posts. Thank you!