22,795 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

Yes, bluegirl, the varieties you asked about are not known for their own root vigor. I grew all the Ophelia, Columbia, Peace, Talisman and Charlotte Armstrong mutations own root in my old Newhall garden years ago and that was a very good environment for them, even own root. Very few had anything even remotely resembling "vigor" on their own roots. It took quite a few seasons for any of the Ophelia clan to generate nearly two by two feet, even with copious water, copious horse manure and regular bud pinching. Now, Radiance and her variants, will grow like weeds own root.

If you're serious about wanting to create your own seedlings, honestly, you will be significantly better off "standing on the shoulders" of more recent breeders, using their vastly improved results over museum pieces of the past. There really isn't anything to gain from the older types as far as vigor and health are concerned. Been there, done that, had fun, but all of those efforts resulted in nothing worth keeping long term. Kim

Well, okay--thanks for the helpful confirmations & advice.

It's just that when I type up my rose table of all the favorites I grow (Peace, Peace's many offspring, Chyrsler Imperial & its descendents...) Ophelia & Charlotte Armstrong figure pretty heavily in their genetics.

And, yeah, museum pieces (great description) appeal to me, for their very history, like any other antique.
Though I will admit that the Radiance clan have all that AND good vigor.

No it's not JAMES BIDDLE. Could be PINK PEACE. Could be a lot of other deep pinks too.

I thought Pink Peace too; especially due to the white edges on it. Beth makes a great point and I believe she has more roses than I have seen, however, if you are looking for a rose that has the appearance of the image you submitted, Pink Peace would be a great place to start looking. If you are trying to find out exactly what that rose is, you may want to take more pictures, including full bush shots, and gather up as much information as possible about the rose, then go from there.

Good luck!

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Sun, Mar 2, 14 at 19:13

For zone 5, two good vendors of own root roses are Northland Rosarium in Spokane, Washington and High Country Roses in Denver. Both have carefully selected roses which can with stand the rigors of zone 5 winters, and both send out large plants which are ready to start growing when they arrive.

Two good sources of grafted roses for cold zoners are Palatine and Pickering in Canada. Again, huge, healthy plants which are ready to plant and grow.

I have not ordered from Wisconsin Roses, which does also have a great reputation. I think there is also a company in Ohio called Rosefire.

If you want modern roses, the ones that look like florist roses, Hybrid Teas and Floribundas, you had probably best stick to grafted roses. Maybe call or email WR for suggestions.

Do any of the cities near you have nurseries with good selections?

The cheapest way to go is the body bagged roses which are showing up now in the big box stores. Those are a gamble, they might or might not grow, be true to name, be virus free.

For zone 5, I have experience with Pickering nurseries, Palatine nurseries, David Austin Roses, and for own root: Chamblees nurseries. ALL are good vendors.

After all the years and all the roses you have grown, I'm happy to hear that you still get excited when you get even more. Have fun with them.....And btw, that is a complete surprise to me too about the size and quality of Breck's roses. Do you think it's a one time deal? Thanks for posting a picture of the bare roots. I never would have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own two eyes....Maryl

heheh -- Yep Sugar Moon and Neil Diamond are both going to be what I call "growers." I saw the size of the Neil Diamonds that got delivered to the Pacific Auction, and just looking at the bareroots gives you a basic idea of the vigor. These plants, which were just grafted two years back were all monster bareroots. Queen Liz, watch out. (Queen Liz was always a big lusty bare root in its time too). The size of that bare root was not a fluke. Neil the rose is going to be way bigger than Neil the person.

Eyes for You, on the other hand, needs a lot of coddling here. And despite it's initial size, I don't think Chipmunk will get much taller -- but will fill out and get wider.

Have fun. I got a Neil Diamond from Breck's also, but most everything else I got this year came from the auctions. I think I ended up with 33 newbies, almost all of which were varieties I haven't grown before, except for a couple of old favorites that were somehow made available on Fortuniana rootstock through the Huntington -- don't know how that happened, but I grabbed 'em when I saw 'em (Touch of Class, Oregold, and Sutter's Gold).

The ants here can live under water for several weeks. Nasty things.

You can use a boric acid solution of water, boric acid, and a little sugar in a dish as an ant bait. It works on some species, not all. Putting a screen or something over the dish to keep out pets but not ants is a good idea. Boric acid is usually available at pharmacies, some grocery stores.

Here is a link that might be useful: boric acid and ants.

You could try food grade diatomaceous earth also, especially if pets are around. It won't hurt them if they do ingest a small amount, and it does a real number on any insect that has an exoskeleton.

Here is a link that might be useful: National Pesticide Center

I have pat Austin next to mine...beautiful :)

Thanks for the advice about size. I had estimated before, something I'm just terrible at, because I didn't want to go outside in the cold. The space is 40' long and the one (6-8 yr. old) Limelight I have is about 6.5'. I do prune it in the fall to keep it from encroaching on what is currently planted in the same bed. The space available between this one and the next hydrangea is a full 14.5', not 8' so nearly double.

I've been thinking I could put a single Munstead Wood before the mature hydrangea. This is a smaller space and I've heard MW grows lower (is this correct?) so I thought it would be a nice beginning. The next section would be LofS, a hydrangea and then another grouping of roses finished with a hydrangea. I am hoping to find a rose with a similar growth habit and complementary color to grow on he other side of LofS.

My ideas have been all over the place. Carding Mill, A Shropshire Lad, Abraham Darby, Jude the Obscure. Any you'd avoid outright? Any that won't be the right shape? I'm hoping they're bushier rather than tall and leggy. The Golden Celebration I have started out bushier but a cane was broken off early on and I've had trouble with 'octopus arms' every since.

Thanks everyone for your input! I'm interested to see for myself how this thing grows, and I'm really exited about the blooms. Gotta figure it out by trying!

Morden Man, I'm in southeast Toronto - walk a kilometre and you're overlooking Lake Ontario. I do get BS but my yard is a nice microclimate - I can stretch the zone quite a bit.

You'll love the colour and variability through the season. Most pictures just don't do it justice. That is how I fell in love with it originally. If only they could hyridize the same plant with better resistance to BS it would still be in my garden.

I'm up in Newmarket so we're a good 2-4 degrees colder than you on average and every garden is different. I hope it does much better for you in yours.

All of my David Austins are on Dr Huey and despite being Texas "natives", they thrive here. My soil is slightly acidic. In general, I have not noticed a difference between multiflora and Dr Huey rootstock. Both are fine for me. Bare roots are slow to establish (in my garden).

Pickering has a reasonable selection but many are sold out. I didn't see any sold by Palatine.

Hi Sue,

Pickering is the best source remaining here in Canada for Austin's reliably grafted on multiflora. Unfortunately, they have been scaling back their selection for many years now and have not carried any newer DA varities from about 2009 to present.

Personally, I would generally give Hortico a miss as they are terribly unreliable and also procure a large portion of their varieties from other growers (mainly in the U.S.), so it is not uncommon to see them ship plants on Dr. Huey understock, despite what they may claim to the contrary. Huey does not thrive in the majority of Ontario soils and in general, the Huey understock is not well suited to our climate. They will usually begin to noticeably decline after 2-3 years. Around the same time that most roses are just coming into their own.

You can order some DA varieties on own-root direct from DA of course, provided you are willing to pay the borderline criminal prices they charge for bare-root roses and shipping.

Vigorous varieties of own-root roses actually do pretty well here in Ontario, but do take a little longer to establish.

I found this rose a few days ago at a Big Lots store in Colorado for under $4. It says it is from Tyler Rose Nursery in Tyler, TX.

(I know this thread is a couple of years old, but thought I'd pass along the info.)

I just received a catalog from Burgess Seeds and they have a Cl. White American Beauty rose listed in there. They also have a whole collection of roses you can get that only have colors for names, Yellow Rose, Pink, Crimson, etc Who knows what these roses really are. It may be a white rose but what kind, climber or not, or what variety it is will all a guess.

I am also in Ontario and have grown 3 of the roses on your list. My own experiences are listed below:

Hot Cocoa- Beautiful and unique colour. Not very cane hardy and will die back to the snow line, or a few inches above the soil line in an average winter. Very good mildew resistance, but only average blackspot resistance. Removed from garden.

Julia Child- Heavy blooming rose with fast repeat. The blooms fade quickly in the heat to a light pale yellow. Unfortunately, it was a blackspot magnet in my garden and I removed it last spring. Since it BS'd so bad, it wasn't very hardy for me either and the plant stayed small as well. It is a very charming rose and perhaps I had a dud of a plant.

Molineaux- One of the best yellow roses I have grown. It is not cane hardy though and will die back close to the ground in most winters, but it does have excellent vigour and will quickly regrow and bloom. One of the fastest and heaviest repeat blooming roses in my garden as well. Bloom colour is also very changeable pending location and temperatures. Blackspot resistance here is above average, but it will get some late season BS. Mildew resistance is also excellent.

I have or have had all of them except Mollineux.

Hot Cocoa has been in my garden since it came out in 2002 and it winters fine. ugly plant, black spotty but it winters. I keep it because it was one Mom bought and I can't part with it. Besides, I have this thing about roses that can hold up against our winters. If they can survive them who am I to kill them?

Julia Child, LOVE IT! Had her since 2010 and she has wintered green to the tips every year. Not sure about this year though...

Falling IN Love is THE thorniest rose on earth but lovely blooms and has wintered very well in the pot ghetto for 2 years.

Disneyland Rose was really pretty but, alas, did not winter it's first year.

Dream Come True is a very good survivor since 2008. Has been both potted and in the ground and grows like a horse. Really nice rose.

Touch of Class wasn't a good winterer. I bought it twice and both times it did not survive it's first winter.

All of mine are grafted, probably on Dr. Huey, and the grafts are not buried but are right at soil level whether in a pot or in the ground. I do always protect the potted ones. The ones in the ground got some protection some years but recent years have not gotten any protection at all. I'm getting very curious about how all my roses are going to do this arctic winter!?

Will do Cynthia. I was hoping I could find it at Pickering Roses but no luck. Will keep looking.

Susanne

Pickering used to carry it, but they cut back their selection of roses massively this year. They used to carry almost all of the Renaissance series and now they don't. Noticed also that they no longer carry any of the newer Kordes roses such as the Fairytale, Vigorosa or Climbing series either. Sad.

The new rose beds are next to the lawn where tables are set up for weddings and other events. There are new Austin roses in front of the Victorian house where people take pictures. The arboretum is having new lighting installed all over the gardens and it looks labor intensive. All of this should make it nicer for weddings. The rocks are odd. I would have gone with organic mulch or some low groundcover. I don't think it's because of rabbits because some roses have poultry netting cages for that.

I always keep a few rocks handy for the deer.

I heard of making your own traps but haven't tried it. You take blue plastic cups, coat the inside with STP automotive stuff, and invert the cup on a stake in your garden. I don't know why blue is recommended for the cup color, when thrips seem drawn to light colored roses. It might be worth experimenting with other substances to trap thrips such as perfumed hand cream or vaseline . Might be worth trying it with any old container also, or a pastel one. I would not do that where kids or animals might eat the stuff.
I heard of a fruit fly trap for indoors, wherein you use a container with lid and punch a small hole in it. Put wine or vinegar inside. The flies get in but drown and/or can't readily get out. That might also work with other bugs if you knew what attracted them. I think some people put a small funnel or make a funnel to insert into the hole on the lidded trap.

Erasmus -If you think about it, all those colored plastic cups are white on the inside. "When thrips seem drawn to light colored roses" actually thrips like anything light colored.
Here my list Daffodils, Iris, plum tree blooms, pear blooms, privets and of course light colored roses.
I can deal with them on the above except for the roses which they just destroy the blooms.

Thanks for all the comments. I'm leaning towards the copper idea. Anyone have some recommendations of products that are readily available and won't cost me an arm and a leg?

Since only 2 of your 30 roses are showing spots on their old leaves, seems easier and cost-free to just remove & trash those leaves. A pair of sewing snips or manicure scissors works well if you don't have flower shears. Usually hold a small paper bag to catch the snipped leaves as they fall. For leaves harder to reach, I use long metal kitchen/barbecue tongs to avoid any thorns. Wash those afterwards. Common practice to clean up & remove any fallen rose leaves on the ground & trash them, too. Two bushes done this way at a leisurely pace might take 20 minutes on bushes of average size

Environmentally friendly & free.

This post was edited by vasue on Fri, Feb 28, 14 at 10:16