22,795 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
If I'm not mistaken, High Country Rosarium used to tissue culture quite a few roses, too. In the late 80's, when Moet owned Armstrong Roses, they had the corporate connection with Delbard and offered Mr. Lincoln, Prima Donna and Double Delight as tissue cultured "Roselings". They were very small, band sized, own root plants which sold for about $19.95. I grew Mr. Lincoln and my best friend bought the Double Delight for his parents. That was the second most expensive rose I'd bought to that time. Kim
This post was edited by roseseek on Sun, Dec 15, 13 at 2:49
If you had planted them all in the garden soil last spring, I think you would find there is no hardiness difference due to grafted and own root--especially (for Zone 6 gardeners anyway) if the graft had been planted an inch or so under the soil line. (The graft is the more sensitive point.)
I don't think there would be anything to worry about unless the temps started regularly dropping down to 28 or lower degrees.
The other differences might just be due to the natural hardiness of each type of rose. Not all Austins are created equally cold hardy.
I'm not sure if how long they have been planted in pots makes a difference or not. I always plant in the spring, occasionally as late as mid-summer, but that gives my roses 4 months or more to settle in and develop good roots before the frigid winter temps. Some roses may need more than 2 months to develop a decent root system.
Since there are several factors that might affect roses in pots (how about drainage also?), I think it is mostly coincidence that your grafted plants turned yellow before the own root ones did. But let's see what others have to say on this also.
Kate
If a rose is budded on the laxa understock, there would be no problems with below zero cold. Roses will do fine if some sort of mulch is placed around the pots for protection. Own root roses won't survive any better than grafted ones if the rose is a tender type to start with. One gets the opinion that all say hybrid teas have the same hardiness but many are not hardy unless budded onto a hardy understock.
Susan, in zone 7 and colder you must insulate around the pots with something like a pile of leaves. The smaller the pot, the quicker it cools down at night. And rose roots are more winter tender than hardened rose canes, because in nature they are protected by the ground heat. Push the pots together to create thermal mass, leave them in contact with the soil, and put leaves all around the outside.
This post was edited by michaelg on Fri, Dec 13, 13 at 13:21
Damn. I think I've killed some of mine. They feel frozen solid and some of the soil has pulled away from the side of the pot. Have them in black nursery plastic pots.
Oh no. Will there be any change to foliage or stem if the roots are frozen but the plant still had leaves (IOW will I be able to tell if they are dead before spring?).
I went out and pushed them together and insulated them with leaves and pine straw. Some of them were on concrete dang it.
What a dunce I am...
Susan
You may be able to get a pretty good idea of how big some of your roses would get by visisting the two roses gardens in the city. Both have a good number of Austins. I know the one in Bronx should have a list of their roses on its website.
I cannot say anything from personal experience: all my ownroots are either 3 or 2 years old, and it is too early to tell. I doubt they will get anywhere nearly as big as those in Cali: we have a far shorter growing season and blackspot pressure might also slow things down quite a bit.
Hi Drew
So much depends on the genetics of the rose and the growing conditions that it is really difficult to predict eventual outcomes. Even within the Austin stable, there are huge variations in growth size. What I would suggest is to pay some careful attention to locally grown roses (and probably be more querying than a mere physical evaluation because water, soil types, nutrient factors all have a bearing on the eventual size and shape of a mature rose....which will, incidentally, take a few more years before yours have reached their full potential. Austins typically take around 4 years to really get going....and even then, the girth of the canes will alter, changing the overall shape, from a loose framework at the beginning, to a much sturdier rose after a few years. If you find you are unhappy with the placing, it is a simple task to move them around during their winter rest phase....so just enjoy the growing period and maybe fill in extra space with some direct sown annuals until your roses are nicely filled out. But do be aware, the smaller Austins (Mary Magdalene, Anne Boleyn) hover around 2.5 feet while monsters such as Graham Thomas, Constance Spry, The Generous Gardener etc. can all top 3metres, even in a cool zone 6.
Probably if you stake them up once winter is over, they will retain an upright stance and you can remove the supports later. Brrrr that ice looks cold. We had a little frost nip here and got silvery lawns and rooftops but that was all. I read about your ice storm on the Texas garden forum. I'm glad your plants were not broken.
I remember a lot of ice storms in Connecticut when everything was covered with ice and usually the power was out. The roses will be fine. The ice actually protects them. Any problems you have you will see next spring or where you are probably in February or March. Some years we had a lot of canker from freezing and thawing but not from ice.
I don't think Las Vegas is that much colder than Pasadena where I am and I planted my first roses here in December last year. The ground here never even gets that cold and they grow right from the start. I imagine your soil is as bad as mine is so I would work in as much organic material (compost) as you can and pile on mulch. And by all means fertilize with organics. I have two barrels of steer manure in water only because I haven't been able to find alfalfa. They love the steer manure. Also I would think that if there was ammonia you would smell it and if you do I wouldn't use it. I have never smelled it with any king of organic concoction I've used.
I'm a little disappointed that it won't develop into a fragrant rose, but where I planted it is at the back of a bed, against a fence, so that it is scentless won't be noticed. Most importantly, I wanted a thornless climber with pale flowers, so for that it works. I'm looking forward to watching mine grow, and will love how it looks with a purple clematis growing through it, as seen in one or two pics on its HelpMeFind page.
:-)
~Christopher
Andrea - what NORMALLY happens to roses in mild Northern California winters is that they get rained on relentlessly. I live in the North SF Bay Area. In a normal winter (which this one IS NOT), I do not water at all from when it starts raining in late October/mid November until when it stops sometime between March and June.
This winter we have had exactly .80 inches of rain so far (they start measuring on July 1), instead of our "normal to date" which for this date is about 15 inches. So, we have been turning our irrigation system back on every time it is dry for about 14 days. Not right now however, because everything is frozen (also NOT normal), and my DH noticed that I "blew up" one of our timers by turning it on the other day.
We are hoping that things, or at least the temperatures, will get back to normal soon (not freezing every night), at which time we will start irrigating again unless it rains.
Your question is a good one, but this year is so weird that I am not surprised that you are getting different answers...
Jackie
Oh thanks Jackie. That is exactly what I wanted.
I have sprinkler systems also, but since I only have about
30 roses, I water them by hand. And it's is cold out there to be playing with a hose.
Another place where I find conflicting info is the weather forecasts for California this winter. Some say we will get water some say another drought year.
So, as you suggest, I will water unless it is freezing.
Thanks again,
andrea
Yes, hard scape, topography, buildings and plantings can make a world of difference. The frost the other night didn't affect my bougainvillea and hibiscus on the hill, but the neighbor in the "hole" below me has significant freeze damage to his established bougainvilleas visible from my back yard. Same "zone", almost the same gardening space, but the cold "pooled" for him where it simply flowed through here. Thankfully! Kim
Hmmm, I am with Hoovb here - zone ratings are just one tool in a whole box. Microclimates in a particular garden can make a huge difference on a small scale whereas things such as latitude, daylight length, altitude, topology, geology (soils types), positioning aspects (facing north?, east?) and rainfall are all part of a way of describing your particular horticultural requirements. Observation and experimentation are, ultimately, the only reliable predictors.
I got it this spring. So it was either Hortico or Palantine. Not sure if they have it this year. :)
Alba Medilland.
I like all the Medilland series, and I think Alba is the best of all.
It is really a repeat blooming short rambler, or large shrub. It so far grew well for me in CA, hot and dry, and now is growing and blooming well in NY, cold and wet. Bloom was almost constant in CA, not quite as much bloom in NY, but still does repeat reliably all summer into fall. The small leaves are shiny and seem to resist most diseases; for me it had almost no BS, and no mildew in CA.
Canes are long and flexible and can be easily trained, or left to make a pretty, arching shrub. In my present 5a climate, it is the next best thing to growing Noisettes, having the the same graceful habit and appearance, but no fragrance. It is an excellent landscape shrub which I believe will grow most places where roses can be grown.