22,795 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
Sorry for not replying sooner, I think it ultimately ended up being a lack of water- it's been hot here in California and we've been trying to reduce water usage so it's putting a strain on the plants. I've been watering them a little more and there's been some healthy new growth with no sign of crispiness so they're doing better now. I did add some epsom salts for good measure though! Thank you!
Different. Fewer petals. Different coloration, still nice looking.
Likely these roses were infected during a "canning" operation in Texas or some other southern area where the disease is active. Or I guess some roses are still grown in Texas. Florida probably doesn't have enough wild roses to serve as a bridge for RRD, but the disease could take hold in any city in the country if nurseries carry infected stock.
I would like to know where the infected roses came from.
The following was stated:
" Reducing the severity of the symptoms....so we can keep sick plants around waiting for additional vectors to find them and spread it? Balderdash"
H.Kuska comment: It is my understanding that there are roses that are resistant to natural in field infection. What does this mean? Some observations may be due to the mites not recognizing the leaf surface as belonging to a rose. We do not have to worry about these spreading the infection as they were never bitten. However, what about the others that were bitten but were able to control the infection naturally? Are they going to be "Typhoid Marys" of the rose world? This appears to be a concern of the above quote.
My first thought is that the "surviving rose" may have a virus concentration below the amount necessary to overcome most clean roses' natural defense system.
The virus plant world is not black and white. There are plants that do not get infected by a particular virus (complete resistance). There are plants that exhibit partial resistance, and there are plants that exhibit so little resistance that the virus kills it.
If we add an external chemical that boosts the immune system of a plant so that the plant does not die from the infection, are we providing the plant the opportunity to "fine tune" its immune system naturally so that it will be able to fight the virus in the future without addition application of the external chemical? The literature supports this possibility. This is called systemic acquired resistance against plant viruses.
Can this plant that has acquired SAR pass it on to the next generation? Evidence is now being accumulated that supports the possibility of "next-generation systemic acquired resistance".
I had my poor new Oklahoma in the shade because the first blooms all burned up before they were even half open and that was in May. it was not happy. Once I moved it back out in the sun a couple weeks ago, boom! Lots of new growth and buds, but they are doing the same thing. I'm hoping for cooler weather so I can see what the blooms look like.
This is not just happening in Oklahoma. We had a very long, cool gray spring and the roses showed the same effects. We haven't really had any of the usual heat we have in summer and now they seem to be putting on a little more size. So what ever odd weather you're having I'm sure that the roses are blooming differently in relation to those conditions.
I suspect Henry is right, the severity and non-recovery of any normal growth looks like you won't be able to get back your rose (damage has been done to roots, not just top growth).
The Roundup damage I experienced was only due to drift onto the plant, and not the soil (since I'm in pots) so my roses were able to recover within the month.
Looks like you should probably pull those roses out and replace with other plants, ensuring that herbicides are not in contact at all with the soil and the plant. If you're treating the pavement, it might be seeping into the ground soil? Maybe consider building a raised bed or keeping plants in pots in that area.
You can try and see if they'll recover by moving them to pots, but that would disturb the roots again, and might effectively just kill all signs. Pulling them out will also give you an idea of root health, so if you do decide to do that, could you post pictures?
Good luck!
My roses grafted on multiflora do just fine in our alkaline desert soil. My most problematic roses, as far as chlorosis is concerned, are grafted on Dr Huey. I simply can't tell the difference in my roses' performance when it comes to rootstock. Diane
If you would like both roses on Dr Huey, check out the Edmunds catalog this coming year. They carried both last year and will more then likely carry them this coming year. Now if you want monster bush's, buy two of each and plant them 12' apart from each other, by variety. I like doing this. Makes huge looking bush's. If you're hesitant about this method, just try it with the Queen. I think you might like how they fill in for each other and the amount of flowers you get from a planting like this.
Dear Cynthia,
Thank you again! This is truly very, very helpful. Now that you have pointed it out, I can see that the canes in picture I posted must be coming from multiple roses next to each other, not a single rose plant. I'll have to think about whether to plant another rose or two next spring along my fence or wait and see how this one grows.
Thank you for explaining the difference between primary and lateral canes, too. I have a few primary canes that I plan to tie horizontally in the fall after the leaves fall off (I figure it will be easier to see them clearly without the leaves). Hopefully, the wood will still be pliable. Considering how even a single cane rose like the one in your bottom photo (beautiful!) can put out many blooms, I'm looking forward to seeing how my new dawn develops.
Again, thank you for taking the time to help me out. I really appreciate it.
Best,
Saki
A lot of the brown twiggy growth in your pictures is probably dead stems. IF you have the time to clear that out, treatment of PI will be a lot easier.
I have used several thicknesses of cardboard to protect me from thorns.
And I also sing praises of Tecnu and we go through several bottles of it each year.
Thanks Susan for the info. 'Sisters Fairytale' stays short in my garden about 3 feet. I have not been able to find a source for this one lately. I bought her about 5 years ago and managed to keep her alive in spite of my lack of rose gardening expertise, so yes she IS one rugged little rose. Not a super prolific bloomer but she puts out a nice display and has a very mild scent. Cinderella grows tall and has no scent. 'Caramella Fairytale' is the least hardy of the three but has such gorgeous blooms so the winter damage is worth it. I just bought 'Golden Fairytale' this year so she is still really tiny but I've read great things about her.
Peter Kukeilski is a huge fan of both Kordes and Easy Elegance roses. I used his book 'Roses without Chemicals' as a reference when choosing my later rose purchases. I wish I had had this info before I bought all of my roses since he is very strict and honest in his rose ratings. He gardens in Maine on the coast so a similar environment to mine except he's farther north and we're more inland (about 35 miles from the RI coast) but he has BS pressure and winter issues similar to ours.
My David Austins are not as disease free as I would like but his flowers are so "to die for" that I'm reluctant to part with them. Some that have been healthy though are 'Lady of Chalotte' 'Darcy Bussell' and 'Windermere' which is the most prolific of the 3. Sadly my favorite for scent, flower form and consistent bloom 'St. Cecelia' is a total mess this year. I just cut her almost to the ground to get rid of the BS. I love her scent so I might just have to coddle her some and try some organic preventatives. 'Heritage' thrives on no care and is still growing well in her overrun garden spot putting out 2-3 flushes a season. Our growing season is very erratic here. Some years spring comes in February others in May. This year I had 3 feet of snow in my garden till the 3rd week of April and had about 50 roses due to arrive the last week of April. It has been very cool this summer with temps hardly ever reaching 90 so I don't think I'll see 3 flushes this year unless we have a nice long fall.
Sharon
In Dallas, TX, it is getting quite large, also sideways >6 feet, blooms regularly and has fragrance. Very healthy with no spray, not much dieback with our relatively mild last winter/ice storms (its first). I'm hoping for a good fall bloom, once I actually get around to feeding it.
I didn't know Heritage had a climbing sport, but it sure does. After looking at some of the pics I think you've found your rose. Definitely looks like Heritage and it was a very popular rose at the time so even more evidence supporting that it is in fact Heritage. It's still available from David Austin. Good for you.
Thanks Michael. And Mad, no rocks here. Susan in Nashville
This is excellent advice. Especially since sometimes the water just doesn't go where it's needed. Sometimes very dry soil repels water and although you think it's soaking it, it may not be. I think I'll go get one today.