22,795 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
Thanks so much for the insights! Sounds so far like I should stick to sunny spots for the smoky reds.
How about Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale? It's described as shade tolerant.. Does that imply it will be happier in the shade? Based on colours, I was thinking of planting it near my Julia Child and About Face - which are squarely in the sun.
Thanks so much for the insights! Sounds so far like I should stick to sunny spots for the smoky reds.
How about Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale? It's described as shade tolerant.. Does that imply it will be happier in the shade? Based on colours, I was thinking of planting it near my Julia Child and About Face - which are squarely in the sun.
Brighton isn't too far from me. I'm in St. Clair Shores and my ground is just starting to freeze. You should be OK to dig. Bury them as deep as you can and make sure you put markers all around them so you can find them next spring when you want to dig them out. I buried some seedling pots one year and didn't mark them well enough. When I went to dig them out I sliced one in half with the shovel!
Kim, thanks for the heads up that it might not be easy to root. It puts out lots of cane, so at least I have plentiful material to work with.
As to whether it climbs or not, I don't mind which it does, I'm just curious about what happens. I would actually like to have a shorter shrubbier bush (which was what I thought I was getting when I ordered it) and if I could create one from my own plant I'd be happy, but I'd not mind having more of what I've got either. In fact I just ran into an article of yours on Iceberg that suggested its cane length was similarly variable, and wood rooted from the climber might decide to shrub, or the shrub might decide to climb, it happened both ways.
I also remember reading somewhere that Rouletti/ Highway 290 pink buttons is genetically identical to Old Blush, which, if true, means that the same genes can express themselves in very different forms. It makes sense to me that some plants should be more variable in this way than others.
This plant has been in two locations, one full sun, one mostly shade, in neither case supported, and in both places threw long, graceful canes in a dramatically airy way. It will be distinctively different if it stops at three or four feet in any location. At the same time it is so healthy it is hard to stop myself from trying to create more of it.
You're welcome Starmade. It isn't really the "same genes" expressing themselves differently. The "genetic fabric" is unstable, permitting it to partially "unravel", reshuffle itself into different variations, so one instance might be a more dwarf, shrubby type while others are much more elongated, "climbing". The variations can also encompass timing and density of flowering, particularly with the larger types, though some mini climbing sports have been once flowering. Sequoia promoted Cl. Cal Poly instead of Cl. Rise'n'Shine because the Cal Poly mutation was continuous flowering where the Rise'n'Shine mutant primarily flowered in spring to early summer.
There are actually quite a few sources of miniaturization, not just from Chinensis. Rouletii may be extremely similar to Old Blush, but not genetically "identical" because of the triggering of the genetic dwarfing factor. Peace sported to numerous color variations; climbing forms and even a miniature! If they were genetically "identical", they would look "identical" to one another. They can easily share virtually identical genetics with only one or two genes expressing themselves differently and appear virtually the same, or extremely different.
So far, I'm not aware of the flowering habit of Softee varying much depending upon the plant habit, but, given sufficient number of plants and mutations, it should be entirely possible for it to produce greater or lesser flowering examples.
I grew Softee in a fifteen gallon can for many years, where it quickly grew through the drain holes into the ground with extremely thick roots (one nearly two inches in diameter!). I used it for breeding and hadn't an appropriate place in the ground to grow it. The plant was easily three by three feet, though it frequently shot out taller, thicker canes which would eventually branch into huge inflorescences. Even stressed in a can which was rather quickly too small for it, in severely depleated soil and frequently water and food stressed, it was seldom without at least some bloom. When I gave it to a more "loving" home, it required a lot of digging to loosen it from the soil. Ants had colonized the remaining soil, so I completely bare rooted the plant and left it soaking in a large pail of water until it traveled to its new home. Those roots continue pushing new plants out of the ground, providing more to place in other deserving homes. I think you'll find it as durable and persistent as most of the other Moore creations as long as it really establishes itself first. Kim
Here is a link that might be useful: Baby Peace
Sara-Ann,
Hortico in Canada has Frederic Mistral grafted onto multiflora rootstock. I have a number of roses grafted on multiflora and I also have alkaline soil. Most of these roses do well for me, but I like to use soil acidifier on the soil around them, and once a year I use granular fertilizer for acid loving plants. I do this because multiflora roots supposedly prefer an acid soil. My Frederic Mistral was purchased from a very fine local nursery a number of years ago and is grafted on Dr Huey. FM is one of my favorite roses--huge plant, always in bloom with light pink, very fragrant blooms.
I would give Hortico a try; I've ordered several times from them and never had a problem. Diane
Well, this is a first year rose that I purchased from Hortico. Some of you know, when you get roses from Hortico and open the package, you say, "What are these twigs?" For whatever reason, these roses flourish in my awful desert soil. Old Fragrance (now 3 years old) was 7 feet tall this season. Back to CDG, it had 10 blossoms this season with good repeat and okay fragrance. I expect a better scent next season but, this being the desert, roses smell nothing like they did when I lived on the East Coast. On the plus side, no BS here as there is little humidity. I would heartily recommend this rose if you want a stunning lavender.
kstrong, great idea. I love it. It won't hurt as much if I know it went to a good home.
I'm already looking thru catalogs to figure out what to order to take the place of the discards. Of course if my cuttings all take, I'll have to leave room for them as well but probably have nothing to worry about since I've never successfully rooted a cutting.
This is definitely one of those Austins which take quite a few years to settle into a predictable growth pattern. Like a lot of Austins, in its juvenile stage of growth, it is very lax, tending to sprawl and droop but after 4-5 years, it stiffens its sinews into something more useful (I don't enjoy white roses flopping into the mud) although it will never be a strongly upright rose. I suspect some discreet supports would be a useful strategy with this one since it also has a slightly wayward tendency which will, I think, form a nicely fountaining spectacle.