21,402 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

I am SO glad I don't have to deal with deer. I had a similar, but to me, more horrifying experience with gophers. I walked out one day to see my absolutely stunning and gorgeous Angel Face laying on her side. I'm thinking - what the heck? Not a root to be found. She was a goner. I was so depressed.
Anyways - this is supposed to make you feel better, although I bet you feel awful. But, your rose will be fine - if you can keep the deer off it in the future!! I had to dig up and cage every root system. Do you guys with deer surround roses with cages above ground? How is it handled?

lmt77, I highly recommend that you visit the West Jersey Rose Society's rose show on Saturday, May 25th at Moorestown Mall. There will be a lot of rose growers from your area (I'm east, in Monmouth County, but I'll be there judging), and they will be happy to talk to you about the roses and rose growing in the area. The show opens 1:30 PM.
For books, "Roses for Dummies" (the latest edition) is a good starting point, as is Liz Druitt's "The Organic Rose Garden".
I recommend starting slowly. There is a lot of information given by a lot of people, some of it can be overwhelming, and not all of it will be applicable to your growing conditions or preferred practices. Welcome aboard!
Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Show at Moorestown Mall, Saturday May 25

Thanks so much Diane,
I live about 5 minutes from the Moorestown Mall so I'm hoping to make it over there for the rose show. Only problem is we are going to a party in the Poconos that day so I hope I can swing both the party and the rose show. I actually have my application to join the WJRS all filled out and ready to drop in the mail:)


That's a great point Lyn. In my first few years, all I bought was HTs, Floribundas and Grandifloras. All were bought in 2 to 5 gallon containers, and most already had at least one or two blooms. They took off so fast in the ground, that I had no concept of "slow to mature".
My Austins and Romantica's have been my first teachers that have made it obvious that some roses take years to establish, and even to bloom at all. Perhaps little Proud Land is an HT example as well.
I sure do know now to have "years" worth of patience for each rose. They are completely different 3 years after planting, and I can't wait to watch them further mature.


Last year, May was a little wet and Grandmother's Hat, Gruss an Coburg and Bengale Centefeuilles, in particular, each dropped every leaf due to black spot. This is Livermore (or, as the local kids call it, "Live-no-more"), for heaven's sakes. Hot and dry most of the time, BS practically a myth.
Last year, all three promptly re-foliated in June and were perfectly clean and blooming fools the rest of the season. What heroic actions did I take to bring about this miracle? Absolutely none.
This year, all three are as clean as can be. In fact, I have never seen Gruss an Coburg with such beautiful foliage as it has this year. Currently, Fred Howard has some BS spots on his lower leaves (young and exuberant, even on his own roots; I'm becoming very fond of Fred). Am I going to pull out a deadly arsenal to combat this blight? No. It will pass on its own, as it does every spring with every BS-magnet (the Pernetianas I have, in particular -- the worst) that turns up in my yard.
What I am trying to say is, I wouldn't panic. In many areas of the country, it's either Bayer or no roses, but around here, for this problem, we can generally afford to forego the risk of collateral damage that can be worse than the actual problem, as Jeri points out. Being lazy, too, that suits me fine.

I second the Bayer disease control. I was unable to find it locally, so I purchased it from amazon at the following link. I use 1 1/2 tablespoons per gallon and spray it on my roses every other week. Since I started, I haven't seen a trace of blackspot or anything else like it:)
Maude
Here is a link that might be useful: bayer disease control

My bed has mulch on them and the roses are surrounded by the mulch. I just went out and checked the retention of water in the soil and it's damp not dry. Again, i dont know what i'm doing, but i feel the wind might hv shocked the roses today. My hostas looked wilted and shocked by the wind today as well. On a different note, i transplanted the hostas at least weeks ago and they bounced back well. So, basically, i think the wind is playing a major role in the rose buds being droopy. However, if you guys feel i should water or cut back let me know. Thank you.

Transplant shock is not uncommon in new roses. It's not at all unusual for there to be some wilting at first. Do cut off most of the buds, keep them well watered but not soggy wet and give them some time to settle in and regroup. They should bounce back in a few days if they are not further stressed.


Generally, there is only one way to push foliage from a growth bud, increase the sap pressure behind that or those buds. That is what you do when you prune down to a bud. The only "outlets" for that sap pressure to be released are either from the pruning cut as sap loss, or to push the terminal buds into growth. This is apical dominance. The sap pressure is greatest at the terminal end of the cane, no matter where that end may be. It could be at the end of the length of growth if left unpruned, or it could be the cut end, where ever you have cut it. Either way, that heightened sap pressure pushes new growth of foliage, canes or flowers.
The other way of increasing the sap pressure behind a bud to force it into growth is by training the cane off the vertical. This is exactly what you do when you train a climbing cane or "peg" a rose as was suggested for the more "Dr Huey or English Rose" type growth Bourbons and HPs. By taking the growth off the vertical, bending or twisting it so it interrupts the sap flow, you increase the pressure behind buds ALONG the cane instead of at their ends. This is how you push laterals from their lengths to either generate flowering stems, or pushing flower buds from them.
If you take a plant which has bare knees and increase the food and water, you're very likely just going to make it get taller, fuller and flower more. That is going to result in an over all increase in height with a very probable increase in the size of the bare knees area.
So, unless you can bend the bare lengths of cane off the vertical to increase the sap pressure in that area to push lateral growths, or prune the plant down so that the bare areas ARE the terminal ends of the plant, so they are where the sap pressure is highest, your chances of pushing new foliage where the plant has determined it isn't wanted or needed are virtually nil. Kim


Yes. I think Michael's solution is a good one. Chop the thing to the ground after it blooms.
Because when we grew Gallicas and the like, and we pruned after the bloom, they began to rust and mildew as soon as they got new leaves. Chopping it to the ground might be better.
Remember that, in its day, 'Dr. Huey' was highly regarded. It was a real "break through" rose. It CAN be spectacular. (Go to Las Vegas in early spring, and drive through the '50's-era housing tracts just off the Strip. The Doc will take your breath away.)
I'm sure it is good SOMEWHERE, and rmv has not diminished its vigor measurably. But Southern California is not the place to grow it, unless you plan a rigid spray program.
Jeri

Kippy,
Concrete leaches lime or alkalinity into the soil, not acid. It is common to see roses planted next to concrete having pale foliage because the lime inhibits the uptake of iron. The common mineral deficiencies in roses are encouraged by high (limey) pH, not low (acid) pH.
Tammy,
I have no idea whether the tests you used are even in the ballpark, but if they are, the pH is OK. If it is 6.5, you should not add lime. You might consider getting a complete soil test via the county agent (ag extension or cooperative extension service under the county listings). But I don't know that you have a soil problem as opposed to a normal blackspot problem with a highly susceptible variety.

Hi Tammy: Western Australian Government site has a more accurate chart of nutritional deficiency than Cornell University.
At very acidic range, nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium, and molybdenum are deficient.
At very alkaline range, phosphorus, iron, manganese, copper and zinc are deficient.
I got my soil test via EarthCo. (google it, and you'll see). It's cheaper and more comprehensive my local county Extension. Karl Bapst recommended EarthCo. For $20, you get accurate pH, organic matter, potassium, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium level of your soil.
My soil pH is 7.7 ... roses are pale but very healthy ... although my soil test revealed most deficient in phosphorus, then a bit deficient in potassium, and barely adequate in calcium (Never mind that I have limestone clay!).
When I topdressed my plants with horse manure with iron and trace elements, they become dark green ... just like what Kim (Roseseek) said about horse manure. I haven't gotten manure for my roses since we have constant rain.
Check out the link below as to what's deficient in acid or alkaline range:
Here is a link that might be useful: Western Australian Nutrient deficiency chart
This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, May 12, 13 at 16:04

Hi again everyone...just an update on my arbor. ZD has leafed out nicely and has TONS of buds! She must be happy on her arbor. :) I cannot wait for the flush - last year when I had 2 blooms it scented the entire patio.

Now that I am no longer afraid of roses haha, I just bought an Aloha to plant on the other side. Hoping it will give me blooms longer than ZD.
So, looking at the picture there, I think there is plenty of coverage on the arbor. I have 4 canes trained back and forth horizontally. She is sending up 3 more canes (that I can see) - should I prune them now and let her put her energy into the ones that are already there?

Do you have any idea what cultivars they are? What their names are? How old they might be? Are photos possible?
There are, to be honest, some roses I wouldn't plant (climbers, in PARTICULAR) because they are not resistant to our common fungal disease, and would have to be sprayed regularly to remain free of disease.
Can the trees be pruned some -- to allow more light through? It sounds as though you have made them healthier. Now it remains to see what you can do with their environment.
You don't REALLY need a full 8 hours of sun -- but they will need SOME sun. So if making the tree canopy more open is possible, that could do the trick.
Likewise, you may find that NOTHING helps, and they require spraying. Spraying giant climbers is not on my list of Good Things To Do. In fact, if that were the case, I would remove them.
Jeri


If it has a white center it's healthy. You might try cutting the cane just above the node and see it that makes it wake up. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it just yet. If later on you have a nice bushy plant and this cane is still bare you can still cut the cane off.



Hi Marcie,
I don't know anything much about Diamond Eyes yet, but it's covered in buds and really blooming (some of the buds were courtesy of the nursery where DI was purchased). So it's wait and see, but I have a feeling this one's a winner. Twilight Zone repeated ok for a small bareroot planted last spring--nothing spectacular, but I was pleased at how well the purple color held in the heat and sun. It's not going to be a Julia Child in terms of vigor for me, at least, but I'd say it's on par with Ebb Tide. It's a grandiflora, so it's growth habit is different from Ebb Tide's. Diane
Thanks, Diane. Of course, your climate is very different than mine (Bay Area, Northern California), so it's always a bit of a gamble comparing notes...
Marcia