21,401 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

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Melekmi

My bed has mulch on them and the roses are surrounded by the mulch. I just went out and checked the retention of water in the soil and it's damp not dry. Again, i dont know what i'm doing, but i feel the wind might hv shocked the roses today. My hostas looked wilted and shocked by the wind today as well. On a different note, i transplanted the hostas at least weeks ago and they bounced back well. So, basically, i think the wind is playing a major role in the rose buds being droopy. However, if you guys feel i should water or cut back let me know. Thank you.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 6:18PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Transplant shock is not uncommon in new roses. It's not at all unusual for there to be some wilting at first. Do cut off most of the buds, keep them well watered but not soggy wet and give them some time to settle in and regroup. They should bounce back in a few days if they are not further stressed.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 6:27PM
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andreark

I (ignorantly) just pruned the bushes that were trying to be NBA stars. Sooooo, I hope what y'all said about pruning the tall tops is correct !!!. I will let you know subsequently.

ak

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 2:17PM
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roseseek

Generally, there is only one way to push foliage from a growth bud, increase the sap pressure behind that or those buds. That is what you do when you prune down to a bud. The only "outlets" for that sap pressure to be released are either from the pruning cut as sap loss, or to push the terminal buds into growth. This is apical dominance. The sap pressure is greatest at the terminal end of the cane, no matter where that end may be. It could be at the end of the length of growth if left unpruned, or it could be the cut end, where ever you have cut it. Either way, that heightened sap pressure pushes new growth of foliage, canes or flowers.

The other way of increasing the sap pressure behind a bud to force it into growth is by training the cane off the vertical. This is exactly what you do when you train a climbing cane or "peg" a rose as was suggested for the more "Dr Huey or English Rose" type growth Bourbons and HPs. By taking the growth off the vertical, bending or twisting it so it interrupts the sap flow, you increase the pressure behind buds ALONG the cane instead of at their ends. This is how you push laterals from their lengths to either generate flowering stems, or pushing flower buds from them.

If you take a plant which has bare knees and increase the food and water, you're very likely just going to make it get taller, fuller and flower more. That is going to result in an over all increase in height with a very probable increase in the size of the bare knees area.

So, unless you can bend the bare lengths of cane off the vertical to increase the sap pressure in that area to push lateral growths, or prune the plant down so that the bare areas ARE the terminal ends of the plant, so they are where the sap pressure is highest, your chances of pushing new foliage where the plant has determined it isn't wanted or needed are virtually nil. Kim

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 5:42PM
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jacqueline9CA

It might be a California issue here - the guess about the 12 month growing season might be a good one. I do not think it is planting depth, because we never lose roses from freezing, budded scion or own root.

Jackie

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 3:40PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Yes. I think Michael's solution is a good one. Chop the thing to the ground after it blooms.

Because when we grew Gallicas and the like, and we pruned after the bloom, they began to rust and mildew as soon as they got new leaves. Chopping it to the ground might be better.

Remember that, in its day, 'Dr. Huey' was highly regarded. It was a real "break through" rose. It CAN be spectacular. (Go to Las Vegas in early spring, and drive through the '50's-era housing tracts just off the Strip. The Doc will take your breath away.)

I'm sure it is good SOMEWHERE, and rmv has not diminished its vigor measurably. But Southern California is not the place to grow it, unless you plan a rigid spray program.

Jeri

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 4:37PM
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roseseek

From that photo, I would guess it to be some sort of David Austin rose. Is there any label or tag on it with any information? Kim

    Bookmark   May 3, 2013 at 2:50PM
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kutekaos

Maybe glamis castle?

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 4:19PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Kippy,

Concrete leaches lime or alkalinity into the soil, not acid. It is common to see roses planted next to concrete having pale foliage because the lime inhibits the uptake of iron. The common mineral deficiencies in roses are encouraged by high (limey) pH, not low (acid) pH.

Tammy,

I have no idea whether the tests you used are even in the ballpark, but if they are, the pH is OK. If it is 6.5, you should not add lime. You might consider getting a complete soil test via the county agent (ag extension or cooperative extension service under the county listings). But I don't know that you have a soil problem as opposed to a normal blackspot problem with a highly susceptible variety.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 3:16PM
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strawchicago(zone 5a)

Hi Tammy: Western Australian Government site has a more accurate chart of nutritional deficiency than Cornell University.

At very acidic range, nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium, and molybdenum are deficient.

At very alkaline range, phosphorus, iron, manganese, copper and zinc are deficient.

I got my soil test via EarthCo. (google it, and you'll see). It's cheaper and more comprehensive my local county Extension. Karl Bapst recommended EarthCo. For $20, you get accurate pH, organic matter, potassium, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium level of your soil.

My soil pH is 7.7 ... roses are pale but very healthy ... although my soil test revealed most deficient in phosphorus, then a bit deficient in potassium, and barely adequate in calcium (Never mind that I have limestone clay!).

When I topdressed my plants with horse manure with iron and trace elements, they become dark green ... just like what Kim (Roseseek) said about horse manure. I haven't gotten manure for my roses since we have constant rain.

Check out the link below as to what's deficient in acid or alkaline range:

Here is a link that might be useful: Western Australian Nutrient deficiency chart

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, May 12, 13 at 16:04

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 3:44PM
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kpaquette

Hi again everyone...just an update on my arbor. ZD has leafed out nicely and has TONS of buds! She must be happy on her arbor. :) I cannot wait for the flush - last year when I had 2 blooms it scented the entire patio.

Now that I am no longer afraid of roses haha, I just bought an Aloha to plant on the other side. Hoping it will give me blooms longer than ZD.

So, looking at the picture there, I think there is plenty of coverage on the arbor. I have 4 canes trained back and forth horizontally. She is sending up 3 more canes (that I can see) - should I prune them now and let her put her energy into the ones that are already there?

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 12:29PM
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lesmc

You`ve done a marvelous job! A real rose grower now!! I appreciate the update and photo. Happy 2013 Gardening! Lesley

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 2:34PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Do you have any idea what cultivars they are? What their names are? How old they might be? Are photos possible?

There are, to be honest, some roses I wouldn't plant (climbers, in PARTICULAR) because they are not resistant to our common fungal disease, and would have to be sprayed regularly to remain free of disease.

Can the trees be pruned some -- to allow more light through? It sounds as though you have made them healthier. Now it remains to see what you can do with their environment.

You don't REALLY need a full 8 hours of sun -- but they will need SOME sun. So if making the tree canopy more open is possible, that could do the trick.

Likewise, you may find that NOTHING helps, and they require spraying. Spraying giant climbers is not on my list of Good Things To Do. In fact, if that were the case, I would remove them.

Jeri

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 12:22PM
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buford(7 NE GA)

Looks normal to me. At one point this spring, all my roses had red growth on them. With the cool spring, they stayed like that for weeks. It looked kind of bizarre, but they all leafed out normally.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 7:00AM
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mzstitch(Zone 7b South Carolina)

Agreed, the rose looks quite healthy. This has been a very different spring

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 9:35AM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

If it has a white center it's healthy. You might try cutting the cane just above the node and see it that makes it wake up. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it just yet. If later on you have a nice bushy plant and this cane is still bare you can still cut the cane off.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 9:19PM
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caldonbeck(UK (8))

It will throw up a nice shoot from somewhere along that cane, when it does, cut just above it. It may only appear low down, but that is no problem.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 10:53PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Your plans sound great!
BUT be careful with granular fertilizer on the start up.
Less is more...

I planted 4 double knockouts May of last year. These were about the size of a Heirloom Roses baby band.
Over the winter rabbits pruned so I had to prune a bit more at the end of March this year.
Without thinking I threw a handful of granular fertilizer
around the knockouts after I pruned.
Big mistake as they got fertilizer burn and there growth has been stunted so far this year... :(
I had to water to get the excess salt out of the soil.
Luckily it rained for the last 4 days and the KO's are starting to show some life...

Just be careful....

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 9:29PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Another thought would be to plant roses other than hybrid teas which are rather difficult roses to grow. I also grow other plants between my roses, such as irises and daylilies, which not only looks pretty but helps to keep blackspot from spreading from one rose to another. When you grow only one kind of any plant the possibility of spreading disease is so much greater.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 9:30PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Hardy garden geraniums (perennials)--like Roxanne (bluish lavender)--are good spreaders and bloom a long time--but not all summer. However, the lacey, kinda ferny looking leaves look rather nice even when the plant is not blooming. I also have a white hardy garden geranium (Perennial) that looks very nice with my red roses.

Moss rose would probably work also--or a plain old-fashioned petunia will sprawl a lot.

I'd go to my local garden center, and any sun-loving annual that spreads and I liked, I'd go with it.

If it doesn't get too hot where you live, use some blue lobelia. Some of the newer kinds are fairly good in the sun--though by August here in Kansas when the whole world seems to have turned into one gigantic oven, lobelia often peters out.

Kate

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 5:28PM
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mountainrose(z7 Georgia)

Alyssum is an annual that will reseed. You can buy a pack of seeds or find some bedding plants. They smell like honey and will cascade.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 6:29PM
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anntn6b(z6b TN)

One of the recent papers out of Arkansas tested asymptomatic plants and found no RRD in them.

Can you prove a negative? NO, nobody can.

But I don't have any idea of where these folks got their several years dormancy idea.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 12:00PM
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henry_kuska

This is possibly/probably? where the 2 years comes from:

"Q: What was the correlation percentage found in non-symptomatic foliage on infected plants? Was the virus ever present without symptoms?
We have seen about 20 percent of marked multiflora roses lose all symptoms for as long as two years, then blow up with full symptoms and die in a short time. We do not know why this happens. Do not be surprised if you see symptoms disappear then reappear later. This happens even more often in ornamental roses; this phenomenon has resulted in sale of assumed healthy plants that were really infected and later developed symptoms in complete absence of mites. It would be interesting to test a plant known to be infected but later symptom free with the DNA tests for RRD. The question is: Can the virus be detected in these plants?"

Here is a link that might be useful: Q and A from webinar

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:59PM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

Mine never did much of anything, so I yanked it. Two feet, and about 2 flowers a year was its high point. When a rose is having a hard time getting above the creeping thyme, it isn't a good situation. It was an own-root plant, and Sam said it really wasn't meant to be grown that way, even in New Zealand.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 10:32AM
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seil zone 6b MI

I had one for many years and it was 12 feet tall even in partial shade. Bloomed in flushes all season and wintered very well too, right to the tips. Unfortunately I accidentally killed it, boo hoo.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:35PM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

Carol beat me to it, regular 7-Up or Sprite replacing gin in Jeri's step 6, I would say 4 tablespoons per quart of water. You can also use chlorine bleach, ~1 teaspoon per quart of water, mixed with 1/2 teaspoon of sugar.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 9:36AM
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mrlike2u(**)

Thanks for your responces

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:26PM
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seil zone 6b MI

That looks very much like freeze damage that I get here in the spring all the time. If those canes were freeze damaged last fall they may never produce normal growth and will eventually die back. Although from your pictures the canes themselves look green and healthy so I'd give them a chance. I'm sure you've probably already had some frosts this spring as well (and we're expecting one here this weekend, oh joy!) so any really tender new growth could still be damaged again. This is my least favorite time of year for that reason. Keep it on the porch so it's more protected and give it some time. I think it will be fine.

As for it not leafing out as quickly as the others, every variety has it's own time table for that. Some will pump out new growth at the first sign of any kind of sun or warmth and others will wait for it to get really warm, or hot even, before they budge a millimeter. Don't expect them all to react the same way to any weather conditions. Like children, they all have unique personalities!

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:04PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

Thank you all for calming my fears. But I'll keep this under watch for a few more weeks *just in case*.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:06PM
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