21,401 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

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kpaquette

Hi again everyone...just an update on my arbor. ZD has leafed out nicely and has TONS of buds! She must be happy on her arbor. :) I cannot wait for the flush - last year when I had 2 blooms it scented the entire patio.

Now that I am no longer afraid of roses haha, I just bought an Aloha to plant on the other side. Hoping it will give me blooms longer than ZD.

So, looking at the picture there, I think there is plenty of coverage on the arbor. I have 4 canes trained back and forth horizontally. She is sending up 3 more canes (that I can see) - should I prune them now and let her put her energy into the ones that are already there?

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 12:29PM
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lesmc

You`ve done a marvelous job! A real rose grower now!! I appreciate the update and photo. Happy 2013 Gardening! Lesley

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 2:34PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Do you have any idea what cultivars they are? What their names are? How old they might be? Are photos possible?

There are, to be honest, some roses I wouldn't plant (climbers, in PARTICULAR) because they are not resistant to our common fungal disease, and would have to be sprayed regularly to remain free of disease.

Can the trees be pruned some -- to allow more light through? It sounds as though you have made them healthier. Now it remains to see what you can do with their environment.

You don't REALLY need a full 8 hours of sun -- but they will need SOME sun. So if making the tree canopy more open is possible, that could do the trick.

Likewise, you may find that NOTHING helps, and they require spraying. Spraying giant climbers is not on my list of Good Things To Do. In fact, if that were the case, I would remove them.

Jeri

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 12:22PM
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buford(7 NE GA)

Looks normal to me. At one point this spring, all my roses had red growth on them. With the cool spring, they stayed like that for weeks. It looked kind of bizarre, but they all leafed out normally.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 7:00AM
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mzstitch(Zone 7b South Carolina)

Agreed, the rose looks quite healthy. This has been a very different spring

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 9:35AM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

If it has a white center it's healthy. You might try cutting the cane just above the node and see it that makes it wake up. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it just yet. If later on you have a nice bushy plant and this cane is still bare you can still cut the cane off.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 9:19PM
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caldonbeck(UK (8))

It will throw up a nice shoot from somewhere along that cane, when it does, cut just above it. It may only appear low down, but that is no problem.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 10:53PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Your plans sound great!
BUT be careful with granular fertilizer on the start up.
Less is more...

I planted 4 double knockouts May of last year. These were about the size of a Heirloom Roses baby band.
Over the winter rabbits pruned so I had to prune a bit more at the end of March this year.
Without thinking I threw a handful of granular fertilizer
around the knockouts after I pruned.
Big mistake as they got fertilizer burn and there growth has been stunted so far this year... :(
I had to water to get the excess salt out of the soil.
Luckily it rained for the last 4 days and the KO's are starting to show some life...

Just be careful....

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 9:29PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Another thought would be to plant roses other than hybrid teas which are rather difficult roses to grow. I also grow other plants between my roses, such as irises and daylilies, which not only looks pretty but helps to keep blackspot from spreading from one rose to another. When you grow only one kind of any plant the possibility of spreading disease is so much greater.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 9:30PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Hardy garden geraniums (perennials)--like Roxanne (bluish lavender)--are good spreaders and bloom a long time--but not all summer. However, the lacey, kinda ferny looking leaves look rather nice even when the plant is not blooming. I also have a white hardy garden geranium (Perennial) that looks very nice with my red roses.

Moss rose would probably work also--or a plain old-fashioned petunia will sprawl a lot.

I'd go to my local garden center, and any sun-loving annual that spreads and I liked, I'd go with it.

If it doesn't get too hot where you live, use some blue lobelia. Some of the newer kinds are fairly good in the sun--though by August here in Kansas when the whole world seems to have turned into one gigantic oven, lobelia often peters out.

Kate

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 5:28PM
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mountainrose(z7 Georgia)

Alyssum is an annual that will reseed. You can buy a pack of seeds or find some bedding plants. They smell like honey and will cascade.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 6:29PM
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anntn6b(z6b TN)

One of the recent papers out of Arkansas tested asymptomatic plants and found no RRD in them.

Can you prove a negative? NO, nobody can.

But I don't have any idea of where these folks got their several years dormancy idea.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 12:00PM
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henry_kuska

This is possibly/probably? where the 2 years comes from:

"Q: What was the correlation percentage found in non-symptomatic foliage on infected plants? Was the virus ever present without symptoms?
We have seen about 20 percent of marked multiflora roses lose all symptoms for as long as two years, then blow up with full symptoms and die in a short time. We do not know why this happens. Do not be surprised if you see symptoms disappear then reappear later. This happens even more often in ornamental roses; this phenomenon has resulted in sale of assumed healthy plants that were really infected and later developed symptoms in complete absence of mites. It would be interesting to test a plant known to be infected but later symptom free with the DNA tests for RRD. The question is: Can the virus be detected in these plants?"

Here is a link that might be useful: Q and A from webinar

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:59PM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

Mine never did much of anything, so I yanked it. Two feet, and about 2 flowers a year was its high point. When a rose is having a hard time getting above the creeping thyme, it isn't a good situation. It was an own-root plant, and Sam said it really wasn't meant to be grown that way, even in New Zealand.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 10:32AM
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seil zone 6b MI

I had one for many years and it was 12 feet tall even in partial shade. Bloomed in flushes all season and wintered very well too, right to the tips. Unfortunately I accidentally killed it, boo hoo.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:35PM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

Carol beat me to it, regular 7-Up or Sprite replacing gin in Jeri's step 6, I would say 4 tablespoons per quart of water. You can also use chlorine bleach, ~1 teaspoon per quart of water, mixed with 1/2 teaspoon of sugar.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 9:36AM
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mrlike2u(**)

Thanks for your responces

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:26PM
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seil zone 6b MI

That looks very much like freeze damage that I get here in the spring all the time. If those canes were freeze damaged last fall they may never produce normal growth and will eventually die back. Although from your pictures the canes themselves look green and healthy so I'd give them a chance. I'm sure you've probably already had some frosts this spring as well (and we're expecting one here this weekend, oh joy!) so any really tender new growth could still be damaged again. This is my least favorite time of year for that reason. Keep it on the porch so it's more protected and give it some time. I think it will be fine.

As for it not leafing out as quickly as the others, every variety has it's own time table for that. Some will pump out new growth at the first sign of any kind of sun or warmth and others will wait for it to get really warm, or hot even, before they budge a millimeter. Don't expect them all to react the same way to any weather conditions. Like children, they all have unique personalities!

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:04PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

Thank you all for calming my fears. But I'll keep this under watch for a few more weeks *just in case*.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 3:06PM
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kittymoonbeam

Strawberry, I believe it. I would love to get even 20" of rain in a year. Beautiful green Chicago. I remember the first time I saw Maryland in early fall. It looked like pictures of Ireland to me. I couldn't stop staring at all the green everywhere. I was thinking that I spend maybe 30 minutes a few times a year tying a straying cane in. Most of them are not straight up as yours are, they sort of are at a 45 angle but some do go upright. They don't freeze so the old canes harden a bit and support the new ones coming up. Right now there are loads of growth all along the cane with groups of buds forming at the tips like you would see on a climber. I had some tips of canes blooming earlier and now I'm getting the growth off the midsections of the canes. Some of those are a few years old and maybe after flowering, I will cut them out at the base and let the new ones come in. Yours looks so tidy with all the fresh new growth shooting up. Mine's a big old girl and is easily 6' wide and 5' tall. I water Abraham Darby next to her and the water flows downhill to Sonia so she gets most of it. Firefighter in front of Sonia seems happy with the water too. That's a good spot for perfume roses so I thought Firefighter would be a good plant there. I wondered if all of you were exaggerating about Firefighter, but I see that it's going to be a great fragrance rose.

Here's a little posy of sweetpeas and Sonia Rykiel

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 11:27PM
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strawchicago(zone 5a)

I agree with Kim, Jeri, and Kitty that Sonia is hard to grow without plenty of water. With water-hog I learn to prune hard, so the root is bigger than the top growth.

My limestone clay releases calcium when it rains here .. rain water is acidic, pH 5.6. Both calcium and potassium regulate osmotic pressure of cell membrane, for firm plant tissue. Salt in chemical fertilizer drives down potassium, so chemical nitrogen is a NO-NO for water-hog with droopy stem.

Check out the link below for this excerpt: "Under salt stress the osmotic pressure in the soil solution exceeds the osmotic pressure in plant cells due to the presence of high salt, and thus, reduces the ability of plants to take up water and minerals like K+ and Ca".

Gypsum (calcium sulfate), neutral in pH, supplies calcium. Roses Unlimited recommends putting 1 cup of gypsum in the planting hole. Gypsum is also used to de-salt saline soil/water.

Thank you, Kitty, for that awesome pic. of Sonia in a vase ... I love all the pics you posted. I checked with Ingrid whether her upright Bishop Castle is own-root, like my Sonia Rykiel ... Ingrid's Bishop Castle is grafted, but she prunes it down in spring and after it blooms.

Here is a link that might be useful: Salinity stress in plants and cytosolic calcium

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, May 11, 13 at 12:17

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 11:33AM
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nastarana(5a)

R. multiflora, which Allen Lacey called "that vile weed" can be seen growing wild, or escaped, in thickets along the Hudson River. Huge loops of it hang from trees. Very pretty in flower, but it was only a matter of time till the RRD showed up in force.

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 5:52PM
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henry_kuska

The following comment was made: "And we don't know of any immune response to RRV except maybe in certain species, do we?"
--------------------------------------
I would definitely expect an immune response to mite attack.

I also would expect an immune response (from very weak to complete immunity) to rose rosette virus which would vary in effectiveness depending on which variety, possibly temperature, possibly general health of the plant, possibly time in growing season, and other still unknown factors.

We do know of three examples of unexpected behavior. One is that graft transfers of the virus in multiflora are not successful after a certain date. A second is for one species of rose the virus can go down one cane but does not go up other canes. A third is that 20% or in some cases more of infected roses appear to cure themselve (go into remission) but then the disease returns (have a relapse).

"Q: Is the virus present in non-symptomatic tissue [on plants known to have been symptomatic]?
It can be. We have seen about 20 percent of newly symptomatic roses, lose all trace of symptoms. However, the symptoms always return and usually cover most of the plant. The plant then usually dies a few months later."
http://www.rosebreeders.org/forum/read.php?2,50305,50308#msg-50308

If the hydrogen peroxide treatment does work, it would be expected to word by enhancing the immune response.

The 2012 review article for which I have included the quote below may be of interest.

"Plants, however, lack specialized mobile immune cells. Instead, every plant cell is thought to be capable of launching an effective immune response. So how do plants achieve specific, self-tolerant immunity and establish immune memory? Recent developments point towards a multilayered plant innate immune system comprised of self-surveillance, systemic signalling and chromosomal changes that together establish effective immunity."

Here is a link that might be useful: link for plant immune system 2012 review

This post was edited by henry_kuska on Fri, May 10, 13 at 21:42

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 9:31PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

If the golden copper one was Lady of Shalott, I'd go back for it. Wonderful disease-resistant Austin, floriferous, and interesting color--if that is what its name was.

Dark Lady should be zone 5 hardy and is lovely, but I don't know about its disease-resistance.

Don't know about the Radlers.

Happy shopping!

Kate

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 3:27PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Bubble Double is a light pink Radler shrub rose. It may have been registered in 2011 but I don't think it was available until just recently. I think I recall it being one of the new ones the nursery talked about at our meeting. It may be too new to find out much about it yet but being a Radler it's probably pretty healthy and hardy. The pics on HMF look nice. It has quite a few more petals than the KO line seems to.

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 7:01PM
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NewGardeneress

Thank you for the replies!

The soil above the plant is terrible, but underneath I have a few feet of pure Miracle Gro soil for flowers and vegetables (which has peat moss and manure in it). The plants also get a lot of water and plenty of sunlight. If I were to stick my finger in the soil around the plant right now, it would be moist.

As for the type of rose, I actually lost track. It could either be Paradise Hybrid Tea Rose or Color Magic Hybrid Tea Rose. None of the other rose bushes are displaying this much red coloring, so it made me really worried. It makes me feel better to see so many of you say it is normal. Thank you, again.

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 4:24PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Relax! Every variety has it's own growth habits. Some are green and others are very red in color. As the leaves age they'll probably green up more but even there some varieties do so quicker than others. There is nothing there that looks unhealthy.

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 5:49PM
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the_dark_lady(z7 Amelia VA)

Thank you very much, Strawberry! :)
Marina

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 4:09PM
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henry_kuska

The Round-Up can leave the roots of a treated weed, pass through the soil, and be picked up by the roots of nearby rose bushes. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11104-007-9387-1# AND http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S116103010900063X

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 4:21PM
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