22,152 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
With 'Charlotte Armstrong', 'Peace', and their immediate descendants, there was a big step forward in vigor and perhaps in mildew resistance for hybrid teas, but I'm skeptical as to how much improvement occurred in the forty years after that. Over that period the overwhelming majority of new roses were HT and Fl that were fully susceptible to blackspot, and breeding consisted mainly of crossing two successful cultivars of that type. Apart from exhibition form, how were the top roses of the 80s clearly superior to the roses of the 50s like 'Tiffany' and 'Queen Elizabeth'? Is there a super-fragrant red HT better as a garden rose than 'Chrysler Imperial'?
It seems to me that American commercial rose breeding during that period was stagnant except for the pursuit of novelty colors and needle-nosed exhibition HTs. California breeders ignored the rest of America's need for more winter hardiness and blackspot resistance. The groundwork for real improvement was being laid in Iowa, Wisconsin, and Canada, but the truly superior roses never made it to the garden center until Conard Pyle made a deal with Bill Radler around 1990.
This post was edited by michaelg on Tue, Jul 30, 13 at 14:38
Again, depending upon your criteria (in this case, disease resistance and cold hardiness) the answer to the question is going to be "it depends". But, basing it upon the criteria of foliage quality, foliage density, bush habit, vigor, flower production, actual resistance to midew and rust in THIS climate, there have been dramatic improvements in bush, foliage and flower quality. I wish I had my old slides of the decade beds at The Huntington Library I took thirty years ago. It was a living museum by decade (as was the Descanso Rose History Walk, prior to the more recent "renovation" of the rose garden) where you could observe and study the improvements by decade. Viewed that way, the changes have been dramatic. Kim
Michael, thank you for the crash course,
I must say , as a gardener, I have had a very steep learning curve this past 2 weeks.
Soo glad to hear this is not lethal to the plant, I did break a few of the canes when sinking them, I did not take any further precaution than to snip them off and make a clean cut.
Do you have any suggestions on a what I should have in my rose arsenal?
I'm not too fond of heavy chemicals but am resigned to having to step it up to keep the roses healthy.
Thank you, K
Insecticides are rarely if ever needed. Scout for chewing insects and remove them. Bring your pest control questions here.
Fungus diseases very with the climate. When you bring questions here, you should name your state in your sig line or in the post.
In the east, and to a lesser extent in the midwest, blackspot fungus can defoliate most rose varieties repeatedly during the season. This can cause less hardy varieties to die over winter if subzero conditions occur. Some varieties are resistant (ask here) while others are hardy enough to survive without fungicide anyway, though the foliage may not look so good.
Living in an area with extreme disease pressure, I use Bayer Disease Control for Roses. . . (containing only tebuconazole) about every two weeks, to control blackspot and other fungi. It is available at some Lowe's and online. If you want to avoid synthetic fungicides, copper soap (Soap Shield) is probably the most effective option. Sulfur sprays may be adequate if you apply often enough.
Do not buy combo pesticide products (3-in-1 etc.).
That doesn't look like a rust problem to me. Looks like you have bugs chomping on your leaves and your buds. I found this web site that shows photos of common problems with roses, what it is and what causes it.
Here is a link that might be useful: pets and diseases on roses
The netting sounded like a good idea so I spent a day preparing a lot of them. But, my old fingers are not nimble enough. As I would try to tie one around a beetle, it would fly away.
I guess it is back to milky spore, nematodes, and bird houses. (see thread below)
Here is a link that might be useful: link for earlier thread
Japanese beetles are very bad here...pretty much destroy everything from early June through at least July. I've tried many things over the years to control them, but there is no way to get rid of them all. I go out early every morning and cut armloads of buds before the beetles can get them. At least I can enjoy some inside until the beetles are gone for the year.
Thank you, Henry, for this very interesting article.
The point that disturbs me most is that the pesticides cited were most likely properly and appropriately used "according to instructions" (and sometimes many decades ago, in the case of DDT) but STILL ended up in inappropriate ecosystems many miles away with potential for catastrophic damage.
Pacific chorus frogs were used as subjects because they are common enough for "destructive testing", but the frog in real peril in the Sierras is the mountain yellow-legged frog, whose populations are in free-fall (ca. 95% extinct) over the last few decades. Though fish-stocking in high-elevation lakes was the origination of the mountain yellow-legged frog's problems, introduction of toxins like pesticides might be the knock-out blow, given how reduced and susceptible the populations are.
Pam, copper fungicides are quite toxic to aquatic organisms, so of course great care should be taken to avoid run-off contaminating water bodies.
I've been reading the book "Flower Confidential." It points out how commercial flower growers in foreign countries have an enormous pressure to produce disease and insect free flowers--they don't get paid if their crop doesn't pass inspection by the US Government in Miami.
I have this rose on fortuniana from K&M in Mississippi. I had never heard of it before, either, but it was in K&M's sales yard and I could see the beautiful orange from yards away and knew immediately I had to have it. Mine has a STRONG fragrance that you can smell from several feet away. Can't wait to get it in the ground this fall.
andrea - I looked up this rose on HMF, and it is rated "excellent" as a cut flower, so I would guess that the mature blooms last longer than 24 hours. It did say that it was self cleaning, which means that the petals drop off cleanly, instead of staying on looking like dead rags for weeks, but that is a good thing.
Jackie
Update On Mister Lincoln:
Well to sum things up I cut our own-root Mister to the ground in late March...
Mister Lincoln had roughly 12 flower buds. Each opened from time to time but only lasted 24-48 hours then petals fell off so not much excitement in that area...
Our own root Mister Lincoln is still roughly at the 2ft mark
with no growth sprurts to brag about at all...
Rebloom has not happened yet but I see buds forming...
(on a good note) Blackspot resistance has been excellent so far since being planted in Nov of 2010...
Here's a pic I took today...
I have to disagree that powdery mildew is only a problem on the Pacific coast. We are completely opposite geographically. and PM is a notable problem here. Not just on roses, either.
Around here, if you haven't been treating a rose bush for fungus prevention, you can be almost certain that PM will show up on it by late summer. We don't spray our Knock Out roses and many of our other shrub roses for black spot, and by late summer, we generally have to take some action because of the PM.
All of our OGRs get PM also, but on the ones that aren't repeaters, we don't do anything about it. They may look awful but otherwise, they seem to work through it with no lasting effects. They aren't going to bloom at this time of the year anyway, so it really doesn't matter how they look. .
A few roses, like Home Run, seem to be immune to PM, but those are the exceptions. Otherwise, we've found that we can clean up PM very effectively with Green Cure (potassium bicarbonate plus spreader sticker)
This post was edited by nickl on Mon, Jul 29, 13 at 10:51
Dr. Walter Lammerts, who created Bewitched, Charlotte Armstrong, China Doll, Chrysler Imperial, Golden Showers, Queen Elizabeth, Sunny June and dozens more commercial roses; and who is responsible for the creation and introduction of the Descanso Hybrid Lilacs which most of us have seen and/or grown (Lavender Lady, Angel White, Descanso Pink among others) which will flower in milder climates, proclaimed the Griffith Buck rose, "Maytime", "Immune to powdery mildew."
Maytime can spot a bit, but in all the years I've grown it, there has never been one instance of either mildew or rust, the two most frustrating diseases in my climate and conditions. Perhaps not everyone's cup of tea, but very much in the mold of a Pink Knock Out. If mildew is a large issue for you, consider Maytime. It does NOT mildew in any conditions I have ever seen it in, nor under which I have ever tortured it. Kim
Here is a link that might be useful: Maytime
My guess would be rats or squirrels. If it was something larger like a deer, horse or cow, they would have simply ripped the whole stem off instead of gnawing through the side of it. That was caused by something smaller which could get down inside the cage. Kim
Keep in mind you'll have a lot of rose petals falling right in front of the garage door--that might get tracked in on feet or rolled in via tires or blown in via breezes.
I mention this because I've got a big climber over my front door, and I've always got petals all over. The front entry is always a mess. Some people would not be bothered by this, while some would--just something for you to consider in your planning.
Maude, I can't see your picture -- and I very much wanted to do so!
Roses Unlimited in Laurens, SC. I will definitely pay them a visit! How fortunate that this is close by.
I hadn't anticipated that petals would fall in front of the garage. I think I can live with that . . . but I may bump things around a bit so that my house-entry-door isn't right by the garage door. Separating them by a few yards will help keep the petals out of my house. I can live with petals falling on the driveway, but I'd rather not have them dragged into my house.
I'm so glad to hear that this project is something within reach of an average gardener. Thank you so much!
I don't know how common the Gardena brand is in US, but I have a pair of very good ratchet secateurs from them. It is on the web as "Comfort Ratchet Secateurs SmartCut - Gardena" and I'm sure there are similar stuff from other makers.
I have never tried the Bosch Ciso cordless secateur, but it might be good when you need something easy on the hands. A little help from electrical power might make a difference.
My favorite is a secateur these days is a model with wooden grips by "Joseph Bentley". It fits well in my hand and I can work all day with out too much strain. It is guaranteed for 25 years, but I need to tighten the bolt now and then, and oil it a bit. It is not as care free as some, but the handle is rather good even compared to Felco models. It wasn't expensive at all. I managed to ruin the large one for some reason, it sort of hangs up when cutting, but the small lady model is great.
I suppose it's all about finding something which will fit in you hand and work with your strengths and weaknesses. Maybe a shop with a good selection will let you try out different ones.
The New York Times had a recent article on this topic, linked below.
I use the Radius hand tools. I have also found that the Bionic Rose Gloves help keep my hands from tiring when pruning. You might also want to investigate ratcheting pruners. I couldn't get the hang of the Felcos with the rotating handle, but they do have the #6, made for smaller hands. Using loppers for the thicker canes helps as well. Best wishes!
This post was edited by diane_nj on Mon, Jul 29, 13 at 9:19
Since your 5.5' pillar is a rather small structure upon which to grow a rose in California, you need to be looking for a rose that doesn't grow very fast or that doesn't mind heavy and frequent pruning. I assume you want the column itself to stay visible and conspicuous. Also, unless you are happy to spray fungicide regularly, you want roses that California growers consider resistant to powdery mildew and rose rust diseases. Are the repeating damasks resistant?
I don't know whether you were considering it for the pillar, but 'Cramoisi' is a very full, bushy rose that would hide the pillar. The same would be true of most old tea and china roses.
There are two ways to pillar a rose. With stiff-caned varieties, you can tie the canes vertically and cut them back after blooming to different heights, so that flowers will come at different heights, not just at the top. The other (and nicer) method is to use a variety with very flexible canes that can be wrapped in a spiral. Wrapped canes will produce blooming lateral shoots all along their length. For the best effect, choose a variety that makes short blooming laterals rather than long stems.
So, for the pillar, you want a variety with moderate vigor, flexible canes, short stems, and resistance to California diseases. I don't know about Santa Monica, but some roses suitable for a 6' pillar around here are 'Ballerina', 'Tradescant', 'Weeping China Doll', and 'Sweet Chariot'.
Hi all,
Does anyone think that Louis Phillipe could work as a shorter pillar? I would really like to go red there I've decided. If there are any red teas that come to mind, I'd love to hear your suggestions as well.
Thanks for all the help,
Jay
I've never had a rose get PM here yet so personally
I do not know what works best.
But I have heard good things about Green Cure for PM.
I tried Green Cure for BS before but it did not work here for that....
Green Cure it is!!!
Already ordered it.
Thanks all,
andrea