22,152 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
This is pretty interesting.
Rose gardeners often say that "Sun on the bud union promoters basal breaks." I've long suspected this was a superstition. However, the researchers found that strong light on growth-bud sites encourages buds to break from canes, so that might apply to grafts as well. This effect might also explain some of the benefits of traditional pruning practices, such as removing old canes at the base and opening the center of the plant.
Another finding: "Budbreak was subject to correlative inhibition exerted by other shoots on the plant." Does this mean that stem A is less likely to break growth buds if stem B is not deadheaded? (See the current thread on "roses getting pregranat). Or does it mean that new shoots on stem B inhibit bud break on stem A?
I cannot link to the full paper (I think it is too new). The link below is to a report.
Other reports are reached from the Google link below.
Here is a link that might be useful: link to Google hits
With me I think it's Bewitched. I've grown it for years and why I planted 2 more, I'm not sure. The one that I've had for a long time bloomed in the spring and has just sat there all summer, no indication that it's going to bloom again, frustrating. But it does put on the most perfect, fragrant flowers when it does decide to bloom.
Some roses will resent it if you just whack them off and will sulk a while before starting to regrow. Others don't care much and will continue blooming happily a long. But if they're really over grown that much I'd say just go for it and take them down to where ever you need them to be. If you're going to do that though in your zone you need to do that now! You don't want to be cutting them way back just before winter sets in. If you do it now they should still have time to give you a fall flush.
On large, bushy plants with many spent blooms, I use a hedge clipper to deadhead and don't worry about where the cut falls. I have been doing this for many years with no problems.
On other roses, if they are too small, I just snap off the blooms. If they are too tall, I take 1-3' of stem and cut just above a leaf. As Seil says, do that deep deadheading in summer rather than near the end of the growing season.
'Sunsprite' does well for me here...overwinters just fine without any winter protection at all. It's much, much smaller than 'Julia Child'.
BTW, I grow several roses in a raised bed that is about 4' off the ground and they do just fine. It's gotten to -20F here before for several days and while I may lose cane, they are crown hardy...which is what is important.
I agree with TerryJean - Sunsprite is reliably hardy and healthy for me, and I think the hmf rating of 5b is a minimum. It should handle a raised bed in your zone with no problems. This is a Kordes rose and it tends to laugh off most winters. It's also a better bet to fit in those tight spaces than Julia Child, lovely as she is. Sunsprite blooms right next to my mailbox and doesn't grow any higher, and stays within a 1.5 or 2' radius, upright and compact.
Cynthia
Yes I know hacking roses in the fall or early winter is not correct... I personally do mine in the Spring which I think is best...
But I will not fault someone else for doing things differently when they are still getting good results whether right or wrong...
Try telling someone that's getting good results there way is wrong...lol... Not me...lol
This post was edited by jim1961 on Thu, Jul 25, 13 at 23:23
Let me explain exactly why we get better results by not pruning in the fall (referring to heavy pruning of canes as opposed to just removing spent flowers).
1. All stem tissue contains stored nutrients.
2. When new growth comes, it will come at the highest point of the still-living part of stems.
3. Repeat-blooming roses such as hybrid teas, being naturally evergreen, can make premature new growth when warm spells occur in winter and early spring. This growth will freeze, wasting the stored energy spent on growing out and providing opportunity for canker fungus to attack the underlying cane.
4. If the rose has not been pruned, this wasted new growth will have been partly "funded" by nutrients stored in the upper part of the canes, nutrients that would have been thrown away if the rose had been pruned in fall.
5. If the rose was pruned severely in fall, premature growth will have to develop at the base of the plant, drawing on the core energy store in the crown, roots, and fat lower canes. Cankers that might develop at the base of the plant would be more damaging than those developing higher up.
6. In some circumstances, pruning cuts made in late fall can be directly invaded by canker fungi. One year I experimented with topping the plants in late November, and almost every cane was infected by botrytis canker. I think this happens because the plant's immune system is less active during dormancy.
Racin, yes please let us know if it works for you! I would love to use a product like that if it helps.
I DO overhead water about 1/2 the time so the sprays don't last long.
Bayer granules worked okay, but still had probs w/ mites (terrible little beasts!)
frenchcuffs.........
If you want to control mites, it's incredibly easy. Just wash your roses every other day with just water. If a rose has a serious infestation, wash it three days in a row and you will break the breeding cycle. With over 100 roses on 4 levels, I don't have mite infestations and it only takes me about 15 minutes to wash all of the roses in the garden.
Of course, I am not into exhibiting roses, so my goal is just to have healthy roses in the garden.
Smiles,
Lyn
I couldn't get the link to open, but got there by going to the portal and using rose rosette to search (as New York has been very quiet about RRD).
Is it worth trying to straighten out some of this?
Anyway:
The RRD vector is not the same mite as the one that causes leaf curl; Jim Amrine has tested and the one that lives on the edges of leaves is different ,although related.
Transmission by pruners has never been proven in scientific tests.
It takes longer than two years for RRD to kill a mature rose bush and longer than that for a mature R. multiflora to die.
300 feet removal of R. multiflora is nowhere near far enough.
Author ignores the factors of wind directions.
Author ignores that some roses can be saved with early action.
Author makes no sense in the comment that Henry glomed onto. How in the heck can one check out rootstock for RRD? No way.
At least now we know some additional parts of New York State that need to worry and parts of New England down wind from them
It takes longer than two years for RRD to kill a mature rose bush and longer than that for a mature R. multiflora to die.
I am seriously beginning to wonder about this one, at least around here.
Last summer was the first time I saw RRD on the wild roadside multiflora. It seemed to be coming from the north, Albany, rather than the south, NJ. This year, the only RRD I've seen has been on two cultivated bushes, both hybrid wichurana types. Maybe it is too early in the season, but at this point in time it really looks like all of last year's infected canes died. And this was not after what I would call a 'real' winter. It has a couple of weeks to put in a reappearance because we are running out of summer.
Crimson Glory was another that my mother had!! Thanks. Haven't seen that one in years. Maybe that's the wonderfully pungent rose that I remember. I will find it and plant it.
p.s. It's nice to know that someone on this forum remembers the fifties..
andrea
In the 50's hybrid teas reigned supreme, valued for the large flower and high pointed center of the petal formation. The half open bud as it unfolds is still the picture of the ideal rose. Lots of these old favorites are still for sale every year. Might be the best place to start searching ;-)
Floribundas were very popular too, but they usually aren't very fragrant (there are a few exceptions). In those days some of the Pernetiana roses were still common, understandebly since they are the origin of the yellow and orange colours in modern roses. Some of them are very fragrant too. Today these are grouped with the hybrid teas, and some are still available.
Best of luck ;-)
This post was edited by taoseeker on Fri, Jul 26, 13 at 6:32
Two things to immediately reduce moisture loss:
1. Shade. Do it right now. Outdoor chairs are handy for shading.
2. Reduce foliar area. Do it right now. It is the leaves, not the canes, that lose water. I would start at the top of the canes and remove about half of the leaves. If the other leaves haven't unwilted by morning, take off some more.
It's easy to transplant roses when they are dormant, but much harder in the heat of summer.
Keep them well watered but be careful not to drown them either. Too much water can be as bad as too little. Shade and leaf removal will help keep them from wilting so much. Be patient. I've moved a lot of roses in the heat of summer and they do survive if you give them time to adjust. Do not fertilize them until you see good new growth on them. That will tell you that they've replaced their lost roots and are ready to be fed.
Try 'Prairie Star' a Griffith J Buck shrub rose. Has a strong apple fragrance and holds up well to rain with some red spotting of the petals. It holds up well in dry conditions also. It is, like all white or light colored blooms, Japanese Beatle attractor if you are affected by them. It will last a long time after cut and in a vase and with debudding produces a nice flower. It is a constant bloomer and will produce flowers on a nice long stem with disbudding.
I also have found success with HT Pascali.
My first JG was grafted onto multiflora rootstock and became just what it was supposed to be : large and vase shaped and loaded with blooms.
It was simply wonderful and darned near broke my heart when it got RRD.
But I waited, and left the land fallow for two years and then replanted it, because it belongs where I'd chosen to plant it. And I will keep replanting it there if this replacement gets RRD, because it's that great a rose.
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Dang, I was going to guess that. I had GB in my first rose patch 35 years ago.
Ha! Too little, too late, michael. ;>). Here he is in almost August, ignored, overlooked , yet still pumping them out.