22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
Wow, what a morning,
Talked to my neighbor, I see their big house wall from my front window and we agreed it's OK for planting rose climbers. This is a northern exposure so I immediately thought of Sally Holmes, two of them probably.
While calling the nursery they mentioned having Renae, so I'm going down to take a look at her, perhaps to replace Cecile Brunner. These roses are on 5' stakes and 5 gal. cans, ready to go.
I hear Renae can grow in shade, wondering if I should mix her in with Sally Holmes on north wall?
She's a little tall from what I know for my back wall originally posted which does get some sun, but what the heck.
I was ready to pull the trigger on the band of Clair Matin, but maybe Renae is meant to be....
Anybody grow Renae?
Thanks, Hollie
Went to the nursery, bought 2 big Sally Holmes.
I saw Renae but didn't think much of her because her bloom size was small and didn't have any form. Perhaps I caught this rose at the wrong time but she didn't look great.
They had large Eden, a dark pink Brite Eyes and that's about it for pink roses.
I'm back on Social Climber again because I feel her medium pink blooms will look better as cut flowers with my décor than pale pink. There are HTs growing all around the back wall where I intend to pull out Cecile, and I've cut some med. pink flowers for the house, they look great.
So I sure hope Social Climber works for me....
Hollie
I planted some grafted heirloom tomatoes this year...Brandywine & Mortgage Lifter. Most of my roses are grafted, but I had never really thought about grafted vegetables before. So many of the heirloom tomatoes are weak plants, but grafted on better root stock mine have done exceptionally well. What a difference the grafting has made. Those tomato plants are huge and by far out producing my other "own root" tomato plants.
IF it is a freshly planted or new-this-year rose, shading it with something (umbrella, shade cloth on some sticks) will reduce stress and likely prevent that drooping. Next year when its root system is more established, it will be better able to handle summer heat.
It sounds like heat and water stress. Give it some shade any way you can and keep watering it well in these hot dry days. Even some of my older more established roses have wilted a bit on very hot afternoons and I haven't been nearly as hot as you and our humidity is very high. That humidity doesn't seem to help them at all and I still have to water frequently.
Is that dark red foliage new shoots coming? A lot of roses have reddish new growth that greens up as it matures fully.
I also found that first year, it seemed to do a lot of nothing and the flowers were weak in the stem, though fragrant for me. The second and third years have been wonderful, and I'm glad I nurtured her along. Black spot is a problem, so keep her airy and be vigilant; I also feel like she benefits from working crushed eggshells into the soil.
Here is a link that might be useful: Striped Rose Diaries
I've planted Scentimental twice. The first one was much like many described, with blooms shattering very quickly. I had it for three summers and it was never all that great. I lost it to an accident and replaced it in same location (Glutton for punishment? I really wanted a striped rose in that spot!).
The new plant seemed a weakling for the first year and also the blooms shattered quickly. This second year it's a redeemed itself proudly. More blooms, all around nicer color and striping, and best of all they last a good long time. Right now it has a couple fine clusters holding up well to humid, 90+ heat. The bush is somewhat small but healthy and well formed.
Funny thing is I never found either one to be all the fragrant.
First off, what a neat idea! I would have loved to have something like that when I was little. My mom would sometimes let me pick out plants and I would watch them grow up. I LOVED it, and it's so educational!
I only have two lullo minis and they are Home Depot specials. One is classic lullo, almost like Julia Child, and one is a very unique lullo with blood-orange edges. I sure wish I knew the name of it because it's very unique and has really grown on me. I will get a pic tomorrow because it has a bloom.
I have an Amber Sunblaze and it's a little beast. Mine is a first-year plant but it's already a bloom factory and is "caution" orange. I mean BRIGHT. If it gets a lot of sun the blooms will turn a little pink on the edges as they age. So far, it doesn't seem to be thorny.
I also have a "Cinnamon Girl" which has a really neat, sturdy little bloom on it. I got it on sale from J&P, by the time it got to me it was on death's door...and it's come back with a vengeance in a pot. Really plucky little thing. Not lullo, though.
As minis go, and maybe roses overall, my heart belongs to "Tennessee." It just glows on my deck and it even has a lovely tea fragrance. It's not thorny, either. It gets a touch of PM here but nearly every rose I have is coming down with it, due to our 50 degree, foggy nights. It gets ZERO black spot, even when its neighbors want to. I can't get enough of it.
This post was edited by racin_rose on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 3:04
I like Nahema. It has beautiful fragrant blooms. I just water and fertilize, trim a little in spring. Upright growth. I recommended Ramblin' Red to my boss. Very vigorous and hardy but not fragrant. I bought Nahema from Roses Unlimited
Here is a link that might be useful: 
Rene,
Dr. Jim Amrine collected several hundred fertile hips from multiflora which had RRD on part of the bush; none of the seedlings showed symptoms of RRD.
A more massive study was done on corn, which has a similar virus; About ten thousand (IIRC) seeds were grown out an one had a problem and one maybe had a problem. But with that large a population, the maintenance of total isolation was not proveable.
The problem with negatives is they can't be proved.
Most roses that have the virus don't set hips on virused canes because very, very often the sexual parts of the rose are distorted or lacking.
Ann,
Thank you very much! I shall press on. Those you posted about are reacting very similarly to genetic disorders, generally. Whereas many are unable to reproduce and continue the disorder. I now wonder why sometimes it is called a virus and others, a disease. I believe I will research a bit to reduce my own ignorance. Thank you for sharing your information with me.
"Nicki referred to evidence that mancozeb can be curative. I never heard of any actual evidence (as opposed to unsubstantiated claims by a vendor) and would like to know more."
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Careful please. I never said that there was "evidence" - I said it "has been observed".. There is a difference. which is why I said it that way. I also know of no actual evidence of a kick-back effect of mancozeb with respect to black spot or any other fungus, but it has been widely observed by rose growers.
In any case, we have personally limited our use of mancozeb around the whole garden specifically because of its negative effect on predatory mites. Damaging mites have been a serious problem with us on our roses and on other plants. We need a healthy population of predatory mites to help keep them under control
Always take precautions when using ANY biocide and follow the label
Here is a link that might be useful: Pesticide Health and Safety Information
Nicki, my apologies for misstating your position. What is it, exactly, that gardeners have observed or thought they observed upon using mancozeb? I am not trying to be quarrelsome, but trying to understand what is being claimed.
a. Existing black spots disappear (surely not).
b. Green leaves with black spots do not all yellow and die but some live on (curative effect as with tebuconazole and, probably, propiconazole).
c. Infected leaves yellow and die but no new infections develop (preventative or surface-protectant action as with Daconil).
You are definitely freaking out--for no reason! That is very healthy growth, as far as I can see.
If it is attractive, it probably is not RRD. RRD is ugly, weird, bad-looking--witches' broom, distorted, gross, ugly, ugly, ugly!
Nothing in your pic even remotely looks like that, does it! In fact, the red growth in your pic is downright pretty!
Kate
The local nursery recommends mounding some top soil through the middle of the plant. Wait until the ground freezes (probably after Thanksgiving). The idea is to keep it cold. Freeze thaw cycles are what kill it. Also get your bag of topsoil now and store above the ground in the garage so it is not frozen when you try to use it.
Barry, I cant comment on winter hardiness as I am from east Texas, about 2 hours from Houston. As I dont hear much about Sophy's Rose, I thought you might like to know what a good rose it is. It is very healthy for me [I have 2 of them] and blooming constantly. Frank, an expert rosarian who worked for Chamblees Roses in Tyler, Tx before he passed away, was one of my rose mentors. I always remember him saying that Sophy's Rose was the best of the Austins. Hope you enjoy your two - I got Lady of Shallot this year - she is growing well though I havent let her bloom much - wanting her to grow roots. Good luck!
Judith
Uhh ... you may have to hunt, but there are some varieties that should be fairly easy to find - because I found them. ;-)
I've had Rock-n-Roll for 2 years now, but I'm not convinced it's worth the investment. The bush seems great, but the flowers are awfully tiny and pop very quickly.
Some of the others:
Tropical Sunset - a true Grandiflora, this thing could compete with QE. It regularly sends up shoots to 10 feet with wonderful exhibition quality orange-yellow-striped blooms. The orange will eventually fade to a partial pink, but it takes a long while. Flower size is good, but it's definitely a Grandiflora.
Cabana - a legitimate Hybrid Tea, the flowers are almost 50-50 pink and white, with wonderful exhibition form. They tend to be on the small side and unfortunately often bloom in multiples, but other than that, the bush is extremely vigorous, and a little lower height than Tropical Sunset.
Scentimental - people in the last few years complain that this bush produces flowers that blow quickly. That may be true, but the vigor (at least in my garden) is unparalleled. It sends up shoots 2-3 feet away from the center drip ring and likes to stay at about 5 feet tall (too large for a floribunda, almost). Flowers are red and white striped with reasonable fragrance. I think the fragrance kick is a bit muted on mine, but it's amazing just to watch this thing grow and bloom.
George Burns - take Scentimental, cut the height and vigor by about 25% and add some yellow highlights to the center of the red and white blooms and that defines George Burns. Oh - add some of the most vicious and plentiful thorns and that will give you the idea of this rose. I can't have Scentimental or George Burns alone without each other.
Tigress - a small improvement over Purple Tiger, but not by much. Blooms are exquisite, dark pink - almost purple - stripes on a frilly white bloom. Bush is tall, lanky, and very disease-susceptible. It's touchy to grow, but can be reasonably productive with care. It reminds me very much of Lagerfield in habit and blooms (except for the coloring).
Thanks for the info ken-n.ga.mts. Glad to learn Palatine is a good source. Ordered from them this year, very impressed. Thanks rosetom, appreciate your opinions on the different varieties. I'm not picky about whether it's a HT, grandiflora or floribunda,
Thank you all for your responses.
I'm in zone 4a as per zone map. Last year I got my first rose bush which was Oklahoma(not a zone 4 rose). Over the winter it died back to nearly the crown, but it survived and is doing great this year.
I have two Austins which are doing great from this spring. But Blanc Double de Coubert, and Fimbriata don't last, I intend to replace them next spring with some of your suggestions. The pic is Oklahoma second year.
How small do you want it to be? Anything under about 4 x 4 is going to be a lost cause.
Pruning it down hard after the heat breaks is definitely an option. Plan on doing a similar pruning next spring. It doesn't bloom on old wood, but rather on what could be called fruiting spurs off the old wood. So even if it is cut back very hard, it will bloom. With a lot of once-blooming OGRs, this is what could be called exhibition pruning, since it produces fewer flowers, but those are larger, with much better stems. After flowering, it will try to grow ginormous again, and needs another fairly drastic pruning.
Thank you so much for the help. I will try pruning it back some. I don't want to keep it to as little as 4 x 4, but I wouldn't mind 5 x 5 or 6 x 6, instead of the estimated 8 x 8 it is now. I think a lot of the beauty is in that fountain shape it makes, but I'd be OK with a smaller fountain, and I'm thrilled that I won't lose the bloom next year by giving it a haircut this year. Thanks again. You people are great.