22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

Thank you all for your responses.

I'm in zone 4a as per zone map. Last year I got my first rose bush which was Oklahoma(not a zone 4 rose). Over the winter it died back to nearly the crown, but it survived and is doing great this year.
I have two Austins which are doing great from this spring. But Blanc Double de Coubert, and Fimbriata don't last, I intend to replace them next spring with some of your suggestions. The pic is Oklahoma second year.

PJPII is a good choice for a lasting white and the fragrance and repeat bloom are excellent.

The slow growth as an immature, own root plant is characteristic of several Kordesii types. Shadow Dancer is much faster to take off as a budded plant, as is Rosarium Uetersen. I know RVR isn't listed as a source, but this photo is almost seeming as if it could be Leonardo da Vinci, too. Take a look at both Rosarium Uetersen and Leonardo and compare photos from cooler areas with what you see in your garden. RVR does sell Rosarium Uetersen. Of course, it's possibly some other Kordesii type climber, too. RVR does also sell Bantry Bay and Coral Dawn, which might be potential identities. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Leonardo da Vinci

Hmmm, Bantry Bay looks suspiciously alike.

Andreark,

Crimson bouquet was almost in constant bloom here in Las Vegas and was a very clean plant.

Lynn

I'm green with envy! I wish there was a nursey like that near me!!

I'll add that I don't think Golden Showers will be disease resistant in your area. It is not here.

magneato, you referred to being taken by the orange-yellow colors of Polka. Autumn Sunset is quite pretty too and can exhibit a blend of apricot, soft gold and soft orange in hot climates. You are not in a very cold climate and Autumn Sunset should be able to take the heat there; it does in Las Vegas. Could be worth taking a peek at on-line.

Lynn

Thank you, Kate

That's a beauty-perfect bloom. Mary

Here's my three-foot wide bed, this time on the west side of the house, and most of them stay fairly tall and narrow. In this shot are Illusion, Sunrise Sunset, About Face, and nonblooming yet Estelle, Distant Drums, Hot Cocoa, Hot Chocolate, and the bed also has roses like Molinieux, Pat Austin, Precious Dream, Sammy, Grey Dawn, and several others that slip my mind.

My "poster child" for tall narrow roses is Queen of Sweden, who tends to be 6 feet tall and 2 feet wide, but a runner up is Jeanne LaJoie, the miniature climber who stays very narrow because she runs up a shepherd's hook in the back yard. Plenty of nice choices for that spot, so look at some of the more narrow Austins and shrubs or find a way to restrain a climber would be my suggestion.

Cynthia

Thank you so much, going to read up about all of these.

Excellent point about the zone, I'll bear that in mind.

Shepherd's hook - there's an idea, or an obelisk. I didn't want to install trellises but hadn't thought about freestanding supports.

How about tall & skinny & purple (or lavender) & zone 4? I've always had trouble with purple roses, which seem to hate the afternoon sun.

Wow- thank you both so much for the detailed information on both techniques.

I will try both, the next show is in Sept here. I have been disbudding Folklore and Red Intuition, but not the others or the floribundas. I can't wait to see the different outcomes! Maybe an exacto knife would be better than using my fumbly fingers, which is what i've been doing.

I don't ask too many questions of fellow exhibitors as i don't wish to pester or ofcourse, seem stupid. So, thank you to all on this forum who reply with wisdom and patience.

frenchcuffs, there should be someone at the show who can help you with prep or other info. nickl helps new exhibitors at our show. ;-)

Some plants are usually single bloom per stem, some want to have sprays/candelabras. There is a lot of finger pruning that goes on, and as Nick said, the earlier the better. Good luck!

Lady Kim,

My Rhapsody in Blue...

I do love the scent. I like to put it near the front door.

I'm going to ring the garden centre and demand to know what purple varieties they sold last year. I'll let you know what they say and we can whittle down the mystery.

M

That's gorgeous, M! I would grow Rhapsody in Blue here, except, it wants to be a climber in the heat; it's susceptible to black spot and until it gets well established, it stops flowering when it gets hot. Though not as awful as where many here are, it gets HOT here and remains so for far too long to have a thorny, green mountain of a plant depriving me of flowers. Kim

Graham Thomas!

Graham Thomas,
In much better shape but still showing signs of stress and plenty of blackspot. I'm not too worried about the blackspot, I seen plants resist better once they had a chance to settle down.
I'd like to hear what you guys think about the frame work?
Do I need to cut anything back, if so where? Should I thin the ( super skinny ) canes? They both look awfully wispy whereas the graft is the biggest I seen so far.. don't sa much since I'm brandnew but wow, what a gnarly knot that is.
Advice is to sink the graft a few inches under ground, whats your take on it? I rather be rid of Huey if it's able to root its own base but then perhaps, not the most hardy in my zone5?
Ok , community I have high hopes of being showered in your collected knowledge!
I wanna hear everything, 1, 2 ,3 ... Dish!

Heartbreaking to lose an old big wonderful rose, Michaelg.

I was fonder of Mme P than any rose in the garden. Totally carefree and so lovely in bloom. I planted her as a band around 1985.

Hmm...it seems that the site for his nursery- Cottage Garden Roses-doesn't work, or at least not via HMF. I'll try using Google to get to it.
Yes, indeed, the idea of his repeat-flowering ramblers is very exciting. I checked out the Landhaus Ettenbuhl site,which does have some pictures ,but alas! I don't read German,so can't understand the descriptions! I think I may go ahead and try contacting Mr. Scarman himself via the John Scarman's Welt der Rosen site.I see that Belle Epoque carries his roses, and will probably order through them, but there's not a whole lot of info provided. Some of them I can see I definitely would like to include in my garden: for example, Mrs. Billy Crick,Dancing Girl,Diggy's Rambler,Scarman's Himalayan Musk (these last two only once-flowering). But there are several pink climbers ,and more details would be very helpful in making a selection: a more precise idea of the exact shade of pink,flower size, habit, etc.The thing is, as my garden progresses, I'm getting more and more picky about these things, since I tend to want a rose for a particular situation,to be paired up with one that's already there, etc.It seems a bit rude to pick a man's brain too much about his own roses, but I may have to do that . What a shame I can't read German! regards, bart

Bart - you should be able to set the translation icon going - usually, there will be a little union jack to click on which will (amusingly) do a direct translation from the German. I seem to recall there was an icon somewhere near the top of the page on the right.......

Go ahead and pick brains - it is my observation that most gardeners, growers and breeders like nothing more than to expound, at length and detail, about every aspect of their passion. Being picky is an ideal way of channeling more pertinent information (I for one, rarely respond to vague requests for a 'pink climber' or such stuff but the minute things get specific....)

You might have already said (and I am sure it was nothing to do with Simpsons) where your name (Bart) came from........apols, if you did, for the useless memory (which gets daily worse) but still curious............

I take it that you already have Mr.Scarmans useful book? Another handy one is 'Wild and Old Garden Roses' by a Gordon Edwards.........

KT_Rose,

I understand, and thanks for sharing your experience.

Scott in PA

Thanks for the input on the roses everyone, it's valuable advice and comments

I don't have enough experience with own root roses to weigh in on the success of own root vs. grafted. I've grown only grafted David Austins, some from local nurseries, others purchased bare root from David Austin in Texas and also Regan in California. I've been pleased with the quality of plants from both.

In my experience I've found that the more mature the plant is and the longer time it grows in your garden during first summer, the better. Own root roses will be leafed out plants shipped to you in May so you lose out on some growing time. Often they are younger, smaller plants than bare root grafted plants will be. Having said that, I've received some very good sized own root plants from High Country roses in Colorado (not Austins though I see they do sell them).

If you order from David Austin directly, specify a shipping date, don't let them decide. This year they shipped my bare roots in May and that is way too late. I had a hard time keeping them alive in the warm weather.

Yes, unless you are in a zone 4 with an unusually hot and long growing season, grafted Austins will do much better than own-root. It just takes the own-roots too long to establish and grow.

I've also had bad experiences with Austin in Texas and shipping dates. They have no clue. Bareroots should be planted when it is still cold out. Not after it's warmed up.

Somebody here said get Papa from Palatine so I did. I had it growing very well on Palatine's multiflora roots in a 15 gallon can and it was a good bloomer. When it made roots of its own, it got put in the ground and hasn't looked back. Maybe the big Palatine roots gave it a good head start.

I've grown Mister Lincoln, Oklahoma and Chrysler Imperial.

Of the three Mister Lincoln produced the best cut flowers and the color was the truest red, although it does "blue" with age like all fragrant reds. Personally I didn't mind the burgundy color of the mature bloom because it contrasted so nicely with the golden stamens in the center. I especially liked the velvety texture of the petals and the extremely long (and strong) stems. Kept well watered and feed it produced huge blossoms the size of a grown man's outstretched hand with near perfect flower form. It's faults included slow repeat bloom and an ugly, lanky shrub. Mister Lincoln was my late father's favorite rose.

Oklahoma's blooms were definitely darker, a deep smoldering red with purplish-black tones. The large blooms were more globular and the stems sometimes weren't strong enough to hold them erect. The bush had a nicer shape but the vigor wasn't as good. It did bloom more often but lacked the wow factor I look for in a red Hybrid Tea. I shovel pruned it.

Chrysler Imperial was by far the best garden rose of the three. Nicely shaped shrub, lush foliage (provided you sprayed for black spot), and reliable repeat bloom. The large blossoms were held erect on strong stems. It would have been just about perfect but the blossoms lacked the elegance of those on Mr. Lincoln. The color was a touch less vibrant (and velvety) and the flower form (although pretty darn good) not as perfect. I still kept it because it was much more reliable and still beautiful in its own right.

These roses were grown in a Tidewater Virginia garden (USDA zone 7b) where summers were hot & humid. All three roses had intensely strong (Damask) fragrances that were capable of inducing olfactory orgasms.

Hope this helped,

Patrick