22,152 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

KT_Rose,

I understand, and thanks for sharing your experience.

Scott in PA

Thanks for the input on the roses everyone, it's valuable advice and comments

I don't have enough experience with own root roses to weigh in on the success of own root vs. grafted. I've grown only grafted David Austins, some from local nurseries, others purchased bare root from David Austin in Texas and also Regan in California. I've been pleased with the quality of plants from both.

In my experience I've found that the more mature the plant is and the longer time it grows in your garden during first summer, the better. Own root roses will be leafed out plants shipped to you in May so you lose out on some growing time. Often they are younger, smaller plants than bare root grafted plants will be. Having said that, I've received some very good sized own root plants from High Country roses in Colorado (not Austins though I see they do sell them).

If you order from David Austin directly, specify a shipping date, don't let them decide. This year they shipped my bare roots in May and that is way too late. I had a hard time keeping them alive in the warm weather.

Yes, unless you are in a zone 4 with an unusually hot and long growing season, grafted Austins will do much better than own-root. It just takes the own-roots too long to establish and grow.

I've also had bad experiences with Austin in Texas and shipping dates. They have no clue. Bareroots should be planted when it is still cold out. Not after it's warmed up.

Somebody here said get Papa from Palatine so I did. I had it growing very well on Palatine's multiflora roots in a 15 gallon can and it was a good bloomer. When it made roots of its own, it got put in the ground and hasn't looked back. Maybe the big Palatine roots gave it a good head start.

I've grown Mister Lincoln, Oklahoma and Chrysler Imperial.

Of the three Mister Lincoln produced the best cut flowers and the color was the truest red, although it does "blue" with age like all fragrant reds. Personally I didn't mind the burgundy color of the mature bloom because it contrasted so nicely with the golden stamens in the center. I especially liked the velvety texture of the petals and the extremely long (and strong) stems. Kept well watered and feed it produced huge blossoms the size of a grown man's outstretched hand with near perfect flower form. It's faults included slow repeat bloom and an ugly, lanky shrub. Mister Lincoln was my late father's favorite rose.

Oklahoma's blooms were definitely darker, a deep smoldering red with purplish-black tones. The large blooms were more globular and the stems sometimes weren't strong enough to hold them erect. The bush had a nicer shape but the vigor wasn't as good. It did bloom more often but lacked the wow factor I look for in a red Hybrid Tea. I shovel pruned it.

Chrysler Imperial was by far the best garden rose of the three. Nicely shaped shrub, lush foliage (provided you sprayed for black spot), and reliable repeat bloom. The large blossoms were held erect on strong stems. It would have been just about perfect but the blossoms lacked the elegance of those on Mr. Lincoln. The color was a touch less vibrant (and velvety) and the flower form (although pretty darn good) not as perfect. I still kept it because it was much more reliable and still beautiful in its own right.

These roses were grown in a Tidewater Virginia garden (USDA zone 7b) where summers were hot & humid. All three roses had intensely strong (Damask) fragrances that were capable of inducing olfactory orgasms.

Hope this helped,

Patrick

Michaelg, where I am in S. Louisiana with heavy clay soil, raised beds are a necessity. It's strange--my yard is only about 150 feet deep--the front yard drains very well but the backyard is always so soggy after a rain. Of course days when it might rain in excess of 3-4 inches are a semi-regular occurrence here, and the last half of my backyard fills up like a swimming pool, especially along the back fence. If I dig a hole when it's dry and fill it with water, it will completely drain within 2-3 hours. Not great drainage, but not terrible with heavy clay. On Friday, we had a "gullywasher" of 3+ inches and the lake formed. Got another 1/2 inch the next day. Most of it has drained out of the grass area, but the holes where I pulled out the roots of some large Sweet Viburnum bushes are still totally full. The funny thing is, the Viburnum bushes that were in the wettest part of the yard grew like gangbusters, and there is even a Parkinsonia aculeata (Jerusalem Thorn) in the area with great growth, and that is really an arid climate tree. Maybe the drainage isn't as bad as I think?

I really wanted to put a bed for roses along this wet back fence too, so a raised bed is absolutely critical here.

I am embarrassed about how the yard looks now, but I'll take some pics so you can see what I'm working with.

I can empathize about the lakes forming in the backyard, mine does the same thing but out here in California I'm sure it's a rarer occasion. Nevertheless about half of the winter I have large ponds in my backyard that make it a muddy mess. My next big project is to do some grading and have a dry creek that runs to a dry well to deal with the drainage issues, have you ever thought of changing the grading so you don't get such bad ponding in the rain? I'm not sure what your style is, mine is naturalistic so I love the idea of a rocky dry creek in my yard. Sometimes designing around problems yields the best ideas and most beautiful gardens.

This post was edited by peachymomo on Mon, Jul 15, 13 at 12:06

According to your description, you don't actually have clay soil. You have 12" of sandy topsoil over clay subsoil. I gather your yard is in what used to be pine flatwoods. This type of low, flat land routinely floods mildly during the Florida rainy season because there is no place for the rain to go. If that is the case, your problem is not the soil per se but the lay of the land. The only solution is to raise the beds. I gave you my suggestion about soil in a post above.

When I mentioned a ditch, I just meant a transition zone between the slope of a raised area and the turf. You can see what I mean by looking at trees planted on slight mounds by competent professional landscapers. If you use hardscape, don't mortar it so water can leak out.

This post was edited by michaelg on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 13:14

Since we are engaged in long-range guesswork here, there is something you should do to determine whether there is an extreme drainage problem. Just dig a hole between the roses and see if you have a high water table. The water table is the point where water begins seeping into the bottom of the hole. It will be at nearly the same level all over a flat yard. In Florida the water table will rise during the rainy season and drop during winter and spring. If it is within, I'd say, a foot of the surface in July, then the beds should be raised. But maybe someone with more direct experience can comment. Where I lived in Florida, we had good drainage.

This post was edited by michaelg on Mon, Jul 15, 13 at 10:55

It will repeat. In my cooler zone it repeats fairly often but in 100 degree temps yours has probably gone all but dormant to retain moisture. When your weather cools off it will bloom again.

This is a first year rose for me, but wow, I've been really impressed. It's on its second flush right now. It's been very BS resistant in our Florida humidity and looks absolutely beautiful. It's easily one of my top favorites :) As mentioned already, blooms are small, but numerous and very pretty.

As for the BS, I have a pretty dedicated spray routine, so that may be why. That being said, even with the rigid spraying, some of my roses just aren't handling the humidity and moist rainy summer well at all. At least I know which ones will be meeting the compost pile when we move!

So pretty! Go zone 5! Yay!

Gorgeous!

I have 12 free roses this year from RVR. All but 2 of them have significantly different foliage. Of those that have bloomed, one looks identical to the posted photo. I also identified it as Sophisticate. Mine had a mild, sweet scent. Weather was high 80's. Five petals and mostly 7 leaflet leaves. I also have one identified as Fellemberg and another as Angels Mateau. Two are different Gallicas. One looks identical to RVR's "Carol's Favorite Gallica", the other was similar to Gertrude Jekyll blooms when fully opened but with a darker reverse and dark purple guard petals.

Thanks so much for chiming in with your IDs from RVR, roseybluemoon! I've looked up the roses you mention from your mystery batch and it'll save me on additional questions if it turns out to be any of those you mention. I can't say that I've ever gotten a Noisette or Tea mystery rose from RVR, so it's possible that they send those likely candidates off to warmer zones than mine. I'd be pleased if any of these roses turn out to be Angels Mateau, though I've had poor track records with overwintering Dot roses.

Good to know there are a variety of mystery roses possible each year - that adds to the fun of the process!

Cynthia

Thanks Seil. I think I will place iobelle off to the side a bit so any foliage issues won't be right in my face. Good to know.

I agree with Kate that Eutin is a very hardy good reblooming rose for zone 5 and colder. Mine is in my zone 4 pocket, and it definitely wants to be wider than it is tall. Mine's about 4 years old and I'd call it waist high with a spreading habit not quite an arm's distance, which makes Kate's measurements pretty representative of mine too (didn't remember you were a Cornhusker Kate!)

I also bought my Iobelle from Roses Unlimited, and I have to agree with Seil that it's one of the least hardy Bucks I've grown. It died a pretty rapid death after its first winter, and I do winter protect. You might consider a warmer zone pocket in your yard or keep it in a pot and take it into an unheated protected space for the winter. Prairie Harvest is a more traditional Buck and should survive fine in zone 5 in the ground. I get the various "Prairie" Bucks mixed up a bit, but I'd say it's probably 4 feet tall and not too wide, perhaps 2.5 feet.

Sweet Intoxication is one that has failed to overwinter for me once already, but that might have been from a weak plant (it sounds like you're having the same problem). In general, I find that if hybrid teas like that survive they're not as tall or wide as indicated on HMF usually, at least in my zone 5. That's the one on your list that's most liable to stay relatively narrow, if you're trying to place it in an existing spot - my guess would be 4 feet tall by 2.5 feet wide again, but it's only a guess since it's a pretty weak plant for me.

Have fun and let us know how they do!

Cynthia

Kim's right about the barrels. 20+ years ago, we planted probably 8-10 roses in barrels, in various locations. It seemed like such a good idea at the time.

For the first few years, everything was fine. The first things to go were the metal bands. We replaced those. But the barrels began to disintegrated by maybe Year Four, and by Year 6, they were history.

As far as I can see, the only practical way to use those wooden barrels is to put a plastic "liner" pot inside the barrel, and use it for something like petunias. NEVER again for a rose!

Jeri

I have a Red Eden in a cedar half-barrel...which is a little more resilient to the moisture (though I don't know how many years that will last)...and it's doing wonderfully. Granted, I keep it as a large shrub and may train it on an obelisk eventually, but the canes are too stiff to really peg or bend. Otherwise, I love Red Eden. It's not what I would call a "prolific" bloomer, but the blooms are so romantic and gorgeous and last FOREVER. It does repeat, it's just not a workhorse like some of my other HTs or Austins.

In that other thread, the one by jujujojo with the rooftop garden, there are a couple climbers in containers.

I think you could do it.

However, there are many species of powdery mildew that are specialized for different groups of plants. Rose PM only affects roses.

I want to emphasize Kim's point--sunlight! Get those plants out in the sun. Powdery mildew is usually associated with too much shade or possibly long periods of overcast, cloudy skies. Sunlight is the solution.

Kate

In our situation, the blooms are a blush pink with no noticeable fading to white.. The bush is not in full sun - maybe that accounts for it. The ARS classifies it as "light pink", which I would also consider accurate.

When I first became interested in roses, Kathleen was one that "tasteful" plant connoisseurs would chose if they had to grow only one rose.