22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

Michaelg, where I am in S. Louisiana with heavy clay soil, raised beds are a necessity. It's strange--my yard is only about 150 feet deep--the front yard drains very well but the backyard is always so soggy after a rain. Of course days when it might rain in excess of 3-4 inches are a semi-regular occurrence here, and the last half of my backyard fills up like a swimming pool, especially along the back fence. If I dig a hole when it's dry and fill it with water, it will completely drain within 2-3 hours. Not great drainage, but not terrible with heavy clay. On Friday, we had a "gullywasher" of 3+ inches and the lake formed. Got another 1/2 inch the next day. Most of it has drained out of the grass area, but the holes where I pulled out the roots of some large Sweet Viburnum bushes are still totally full. The funny thing is, the Viburnum bushes that were in the wettest part of the yard grew like gangbusters, and there is even a Parkinsonia aculeata (Jerusalem Thorn) in the area with great growth, and that is really an arid climate tree. Maybe the drainage isn't as bad as I think?

I really wanted to put a bed for roses along this wet back fence too, so a raised bed is absolutely critical here.

I am embarrassed about how the yard looks now, but I'll take some pics so you can see what I'm working with.

I can empathize about the lakes forming in the backyard, mine does the same thing but out here in California I'm sure it's a rarer occasion. Nevertheless about half of the winter I have large ponds in my backyard that make it a muddy mess. My next big project is to do some grading and have a dry creek that runs to a dry well to deal with the drainage issues, have you ever thought of changing the grading so you don't get such bad ponding in the rain? I'm not sure what your style is, mine is naturalistic so I love the idea of a rocky dry creek in my yard. Sometimes designing around problems yields the best ideas and most beautiful gardens.

This post was edited by peachymomo on Mon, Jul 15, 13 at 12:06

According to your description, you don't actually have clay soil. You have 12" of sandy topsoil over clay subsoil. I gather your yard is in what used to be pine flatwoods. This type of low, flat land routinely floods mildly during the Florida rainy season because there is no place for the rain to go. If that is the case, your problem is not the soil per se but the lay of the land. The only solution is to raise the beds. I gave you my suggestion about soil in a post above.

When I mentioned a ditch, I just meant a transition zone between the slope of a raised area and the turf. You can see what I mean by looking at trees planted on slight mounds by competent professional landscapers. If you use hardscape, don't mortar it so water can leak out.

This post was edited by michaelg on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 13:14

Since we are engaged in long-range guesswork here, there is something you should do to determine whether there is an extreme drainage problem. Just dig a hole between the roses and see if you have a high water table. The water table is the point where water begins seeping into the bottom of the hole. It will be at nearly the same level all over a flat yard. In Florida the water table will rise during the rainy season and drop during winter and spring. If it is within, I'd say, a foot of the surface in July, then the beds should be raised. But maybe someone with more direct experience can comment. Where I lived in Florida, we had good drainage.

This post was edited by michaelg on Mon, Jul 15, 13 at 10:55

It will repeat. In my cooler zone it repeats fairly often but in 100 degree temps yours has probably gone all but dormant to retain moisture. When your weather cools off it will bloom again.

This is a first year rose for me, but wow, I've been really impressed. It's on its second flush right now. It's been very BS resistant in our Florida humidity and looks absolutely beautiful. It's easily one of my top favorites :) As mentioned already, blooms are small, but numerous and very pretty.

As for the BS, I have a pretty dedicated spray routine, so that may be why. That being said, even with the rigid spraying, some of my roses just aren't handling the humidity and moist rainy summer well at all. At least I know which ones will be meeting the compost pile when we move!

So pretty! Go zone 5! Yay!

Gorgeous!

I have 12 free roses this year from RVR. All but 2 of them have significantly different foliage. Of those that have bloomed, one looks identical to the posted photo. I also identified it as Sophisticate. Mine had a mild, sweet scent. Weather was high 80's. Five petals and mostly 7 leaflet leaves. I also have one identified as Fellemberg and another as Angels Mateau. Two are different Gallicas. One looks identical to RVR's "Carol's Favorite Gallica", the other was similar to Gertrude Jekyll blooms when fully opened but with a darker reverse and dark purple guard petals.

Thanks so much for chiming in with your IDs from RVR, roseybluemoon! I've looked up the roses you mention from your mystery batch and it'll save me on additional questions if it turns out to be any of those you mention. I can't say that I've ever gotten a Noisette or Tea mystery rose from RVR, so it's possible that they send those likely candidates off to warmer zones than mine. I'd be pleased if any of these roses turn out to be Angels Mateau, though I've had poor track records with overwintering Dot roses.

Good to know there are a variety of mystery roses possible each year - that adds to the fun of the process!

Cynthia

Thanks Seil. I think I will place iobelle off to the side a bit so any foliage issues won't be right in my face. Good to know.

I agree with Kate that Eutin is a very hardy good reblooming rose for zone 5 and colder. Mine is in my zone 4 pocket, and it definitely wants to be wider than it is tall. Mine's about 4 years old and I'd call it waist high with a spreading habit not quite an arm's distance, which makes Kate's measurements pretty representative of mine too (didn't remember you were a Cornhusker Kate!)

I also bought my Iobelle from Roses Unlimited, and I have to agree with Seil that it's one of the least hardy Bucks I've grown. It died a pretty rapid death after its first winter, and I do winter protect. You might consider a warmer zone pocket in your yard or keep it in a pot and take it into an unheated protected space for the winter. Prairie Harvest is a more traditional Buck and should survive fine in zone 5 in the ground. I get the various "Prairie" Bucks mixed up a bit, but I'd say it's probably 4 feet tall and not too wide, perhaps 2.5 feet.

Sweet Intoxication is one that has failed to overwinter for me once already, but that might have been from a weak plant (it sounds like you're having the same problem). In general, I find that if hybrid teas like that survive they're not as tall or wide as indicated on HMF usually, at least in my zone 5. That's the one on your list that's most liable to stay relatively narrow, if you're trying to place it in an existing spot - my guess would be 4 feet tall by 2.5 feet wide again, but it's only a guess since it's a pretty weak plant for me.

Have fun and let us know how they do!

Cynthia

Kim's right about the barrels. 20+ years ago, we planted probably 8-10 roses in barrels, in various locations. It seemed like such a good idea at the time.

For the first few years, everything was fine. The first things to go were the metal bands. We replaced those. But the barrels began to disintegrated by maybe Year Four, and by Year 6, they were history.

As far as I can see, the only practical way to use those wooden barrels is to put a plastic "liner" pot inside the barrel, and use it for something like petunias. NEVER again for a rose!

Jeri

I have a Red Eden in a cedar half-barrel...which is a little more resilient to the moisture (though I don't know how many years that will last)...and it's doing wonderfully. Granted, I keep it as a large shrub and may train it on an obelisk eventually, but the canes are too stiff to really peg or bend. Otherwise, I love Red Eden. It's not what I would call a "prolific" bloomer, but the blooms are so romantic and gorgeous and last FOREVER. It does repeat, it's just not a workhorse like some of my other HTs or Austins.

In that other thread, the one by jujujojo with the rooftop garden, there are a couple climbers in containers.

I think you could do it.

However, there are many species of powdery mildew that are specialized for different groups of plants. Rose PM only affects roses.

I want to emphasize Kim's point--sunlight! Get those plants out in the sun. Powdery mildew is usually associated with too much shade or possibly long periods of overcast, cloudy skies. Sunlight is the solution.

Kate

In our situation, the blooms are a blush pink with no noticeable fading to white.. The bush is not in full sun - maybe that accounts for it. The ARS classifies it as "light pink", which I would also consider accurate.

When I first became interested in roses, Kathleen was one that "tasteful" plant connoisseurs would chose if they had to grow only one rose.

In zone 5, if virused, you will probably have more severe virus effects than those rosarians in warmer/hotter zones.

I'm not too anxious to get the giant blooms and won't disbud much, I find the scent intoxicating and am also willing to keep her around for the cut flowers rather than good appearance in the garden, as long as I can isolate her from the rest of the lot.
The way our lot is, the southern side is the part of the yard which we use the least, a 20ft wide strip of land really.
Nobody goes back there but I'm guessing the beds are ideal for roses, my peonies grow like gangbusters over there in any case.

Last year I lost roses to drought. Knockouts at that. This year I am losing leaves to lack of sun...and we had another inch today already. I am not complaining really. But areas that have been dry for as long as I can remember are swampland again and the egrets and herons are back in numbers I have never seen them in. My grandmas wetlands are so swampy we cant get to the pond. Lol its scary really. Rain predicted all week at a 40-70% chance.

Ken, same here. I was going to put in a irrigation system for my roses this winter, but never did it. We haven't even had to use the hoses this year. But it's a bit much. My veggie garden is looking a big sad.

This year so far I've seen more cercospora than blackspot, probably because it has been cooler than usual. I currently have leaves dying from infections that probably started in May. In your own garden, try flipping over a few spotty leaves and see if the spots go all the way through.

My roses are very clean this year, with few exceptions like Fragrant Cloud, in spite of the almost constant rain every few days. I removed almost every cane at soil level this spring, thus supporting the idea of spores overwintering on the canes causing the blackspot. I do not pick up leaves, nor spray. By autumn, I expect many will start showing some infection.

Steve