22,795 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
Picked up 12 roses from Steve & his kind wife Kim today. Had a hard time choosing, my wonderful husband who came along for transport kept me focused! Thanks Steve and Kim, made for a great birthday for me today!
Strawberry, would have been neat to see another Gardenwebber there!
I have a bunch of rose slugs this time of year. I'm hoping the birds notice them. I may do a bit of spinosad on some roses that are crazy with them to bump down the population a notch, but I may wait till the spring hatch since frost is coming.
Jim, that's an awesome picture! I saw a wasp carry away a curled rose slug. He just flew off with it (I didn't notice him before he was flying, so I didn't see a sting). Pretty cool :)
Back in the day, breeders would name roses after noble persons (with permission) in order to attach some of that person's social prestige to the rose. But wealthy non-noble persons would pay breeders to name roses after themselves, perhaps as a way of competing for prestige. Several of the most famous OGR are named after banker's wives.
I like the Austin names where he uses a phrase from a literary text with the character's name: Pretty Jessica, Admired Miranda. But one of those has an unfortunate context: "Young Lycidas is dead, dead ere his prime."
If there is a sewage smell to the rotting roots and the soil, this is anaerobic decay caused by poor drainage and overwatering. Manure and rotting wood do not smell like sewage if oxygen is present. So the prime question would be whether that nasty sour smell is present below the soil surface.
Ordinary canker does not normally, if ever, spread wildly through the stems and roots. Roses are able to defend themselves against canker and wall it off. (A partial exception might occur during winter dormancy when mild, wet weather allows the fungus to be more active than the plant's immune system.)
It is possible that your roses have something like phytopthera, but I would look first at the soil conditions. 50% manure is way too much. The muck would fill all the spaces between the sand grains and, if regularly watered, remain saturated with water. That much manure might also create a toxic excess of salts, and particularly if you have been fertilizing.
Use either a standard American potting mix such as Miracle Gro, or a light sandy loam containing about 80% large particles (sand or other gritty material, bark fines, coir). There is good advice on the Container Forum.
Since coming to southern California I've seen a lot of dead roses. Most of my neighbor's roses look this way. I would attribute it to lack of proper care. The soil here can be totally dry and rock hard. Most people don't mulch or water correctly. Aerial watering runs off or if it is trapped it just sits there because there is no drainage and the rose can rot. You really have to build up the soil and get proper drainage and once you do you have to feed and water heavily especially when it stays hot and dry for long periods. And BTW, old woody canes with no basals are common here. It is a matter of time before roses like this die.
Michael, thanks for the tips. Seems that the more I research some things the more confused I become.
Cynthia, your post was absolutely not confusing but completely the opposite. I just think I researched things a bit too much and found so many varying practices that I lost confidence in what I was going to do. I appreciate the additional advice.
I would rather them in the ground as I am known for neglecting things but think I am going to stick with my original plan. That is building a small enclosure in an insulated (unheated) room in my shop and thermostatically control it to not get colder than -15C. Fortunately I am a tradesman and contractor so have everything but the thermostat. If anyone would like directions or a pictorial please let me know.
Again I appreciate all the advice. The folks here are the best.
SCG
Susan, whack the rogue canes back to 3". You can let them bloom first or not. Then the cane makes 2 or 3 laterals; cut these back to 2 or 3 leaves each and you get more branches. Etc.
Or, if the canes are flexible and 4-7' long, bend the cane in a hoop and tie it to its own base ("self-pegging"). It will make 3 or 4 laterals at the top of the arch. You can cut off the outer/downward section later if you want.
Or, something that works with some varieties not others is to pinch out the growth tips of strong basals when they are about 14" long. Be sure you get the fleshy growth tip, not just leaves. Some roses will branch in response, others will make just one shoot and keep going up.
Most shrub roses have an awkward adolescence. You have to be patient and work with them for a few years, just as you know your daughter won't be 13 forever.
What Michael said. All I'd add is that you want to whack the cane back lower than what you want it to end up being, since the rose will usually sprout more than one cane out from the cut place - that's where the branching comes from. So if you want to keep the rose around 4 feet, cut lower than 3 feet so you have room for it to grow up and branch, then keep trimming those later branches like Michael says.
If you want to keep any of these roses below 4-5 feet, I don't think even this method would work, and you'd need to move them somewhere where they can grow.
Cynthia
Paradise Found HT - the fragrance is so unusual - never smelled anything like it. The blooms are equisite with the lighter inner color and the darker edges. The flowers and scent make me almost swoon.
Second choice would be Memorial Day. The fragrance is so intoxicating - old rose I think. The color is so saturated and there are so many flowers. I get the same swoon factor with this rose. :)
Carol
Thanks guys. I've lived here for over 8 years and have never seen a fall/winter like this. I was out gardening in short sleeves yesterday which is Absolute Madness for mid October.
I am used to mild winters but usually the night time temps plummet this time of year. When I take the kids trick or treating we always end up looking like pumpkins because of all the layers.
Most of my roses (and dahlias) are blooming away, some are covered in blooms.
M
Hi Mirenda - well, the promised temperature drop has happened here in the UK with lashing north/easterly winds. Although you have been in Ireland for some time, I really had to laugh when you commented on mild winters in October. As you say, we had snow, this time last year while I have been picking raspberries until late November in some seasons. All goes to illustrate the vagaries of a temperate maritime climate - we gets lots of (short term) variation but never those extremes which afflict places like Kansas, Illinois and other exotic (to me) locales where temperatures rage between boiling and freezing across the gardening year.
So, whats happening to mine? Although my pots are still green, they are more or less static in that not a leaf has changed over the last month - only the hulthemias are still hopefully producing buds while all my others are definitely winding down. As for watering, until a couple of weeks ago, daily watering was a given but now, shifting into cooler weather, I tend to let the plants dictate their needs and hold off on the watering cans until it is obvious (by crinkly leaves) that some is needed. I can go for days or even weeks without filling a can. Trust your eyes, Mirenda - if the roses look OK, they are OK. They do not lose their leaves like trees, but drop foliage gradually over the whole winter, caused more by winds and rain rather than the very straightforward leaf-shedding in deciduous trees. I don't know whereabouts you are in Ireland but if anywhere near the west coast, you can probably stash the watering equipment till next spring and let the misty Irish climate do the work for you. Even here, in the arid east of england, I heave a sigh of relief that the incessant watering becomes less urgent.
Thank you Kim for your encouraging words!!
To be honest I'm REALLY interested in rooting, grafting & starting from seed.
I realize I have a whole lot to learn, heck im still tryin to remember the diff diseases (lol!) But I've often found myself looking at all the roses leaves, buds, stems , flower petals I'm absolutely amazed at each plants "personality" .I've gotten a pretty good grasp on how to help the roses along when they need or when to stop "loving them to death" (lol) but for whatever reason when it comes to rooting cuttings I either end up with rotting stems or they shriveled up. Ive adjusted my soil accordingly , I no longer mist them, and I only water when the soil starts to dry out. I really dont know what in the world I'm doin wrong, but everything else I try to root (including hardwood cuttings) root in two wks or less, but not the roses. Of course that doesn't mean Im not gonna keep trying ;-) May I ask what methods you use for both rooting and grafting? Did you find rooting easier to learn or grafting? Preferred methods??
Thank you for all your help!!!!
Lyna
P.S.
Sorry if you've already answered these questions.
You're welcome, Lyna! Yes ma'am, each one HAS its own personality. It's observing them then determining what other "personalities" you want to mate them to that's part of the fun of breeding.
If your cuttings are rotting, they're too wet. Whether that's due to too heavy soil, watering them too frequently or having too high humidity due to covering them, something is keeping them too wet, so they rot. If they shrivel, they're usually drying out. I'd not had success rooting roses in my new climate until I ran across the wrapping method, which I termed "Burrito Method" and detailed on my blog below. Like all the other methods, it requires tweaking to get it set just right for your specific conditions, but once you get the hang of it, the method works!
A few months ago, I received bud wood of a rose I'd sought, from a lovely lady in Northern California. The wood was quite thin and I didn't know what exactly I could do with it. I had stocks rooted, so I tried budding it, then took what wasn't really suitable and tried a modified method of rooting. It was actively growing, and it was warm, so the wrapping method wouldn't work. I treated them as I would any cuttings, then planted them very deeply in seed starter mix, in gallon cans and placed them under other potted roses where they would have higher humidity, some filtered sun, but protection from the real heat and extreme sun. Most failed, but a few ARE rooted! Many of the buds also failed, but some are remaining green after a few months and appear to be successful. I figured by planting them deep, so most of the cutting length was immersed in cool, damp soil, they wouldn't dry out. It's what I do with callused cuttings out of the wraps, and it works perfectly with them. With only an inch or so of cutting poking out of the soil, and only a leaf or two remaining on them, they could provide some photosynthesis to help carry them along until roots formed. Once it begins raining, I will transplant them from their communal pots, lifting them to the level I want them to grow. Until then, I'll let them continue forming roots. The rains will help to harden them off so they won't be lost to being subjected to too high heat, too brilliant sun and too dry conditions too quickly.
I'm also getting ready to break the tops of the root stocks so the foliage will remain attached to help keep them fed, but much of the sap flow will be interrupted so it is directed into the inserted buds, forcing them to begin growing.
I use both the traditional "T" budding method and Burling's Chip Budding Method on several different root stocks so I hedge my bet with whatever I have and want to insure takes. Using several methods helps spread the risk of loss so chances of success improve dramatically. I use VI IXL, Cardinal Hume and Sequoia's Pink Clouds. I should also obtain some VI Dr. Huey and VI Ragged Robbin. I had the Ragged Robin VI from the Heritage Rose Garden, but lost it. I also have Dr. Manner's VI Fortuniana. It's finally put out enough thicker growth to provide some decent stocks next spring, so I'll probably start messing with budding to it then.
If I have material I want to reproduce in the appropriate window here for rooting; I know it roots OK and grows OK own root; and it is of the appropriate condition for wrapping, I will wrap it. If it's summer, hence hotter (too hot for wrapping) and the material is actively growing, I'll try budding it. Whatever remains which isn't suitable for budding, I'll strike as cuttings to see if something works. But, if you wait until you have what you've been looking for, forever, to learn how to make the methods you want to use, work, you're guaranteed to fail. Murphy assures that. It's like waiting until the day before you take your world cruise to buy your new, elaborate camera you have absolutely no idea how to use. You're doomed.
Rooting and budding are about equally as easy to learn. The hardest part is determining you are NOT going to allow it to overwhelm you. If it doesn't work, don't get frustrated. Put on your diagnostician's hat, figure out WHY it didn't so you can fix the problems, then get back on that horse to show it who's boss. Kim
Here is a link that might be useful: Wrapping cuttings
Take a look at this thead on best white landscape roses:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/roses/msg0510051230536.html
For taller Perennial plants, try Lavender Provence or Grosso. They are almost evergreen in my zone 6b climate. I also grow 8 other varieties, but these two are the tallest . For most of these varities, I get a decent second flush (going on now) if I cut the flowers early enough in the season, but not so much for these two.
There is "white out" which is not a knockout rose but is bred by the same person Bill Radler...
Sunny Knockout starts out yellow but quickly fades to white...
Here is a link that might be useful: White Out Rose