22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
"Black spot will weaken a rose bush but not kill it." I've read that so many times it is beginning to take on the aspects of a garden myth.
Is it true? Speaking strictly, yes. In practical terms that matter to us as gardeners, no. it is not true.
An uncontrolled black spot infection may significantly weaken a rose bush through a number of actions (defoliation, metabolic reduction, and others). That makes the bush susceptible to other injury, such as from winter damage, drought damage, etc. So the bush dies. Did the black spot kill it? In practical terms, it did.
Yes, being weakened by defoliation can lead to death by other causes. For example, if a rose is trying to grow out during the fall after being defoliated, it may use up most of its stored chemical energy (sugars and starches) in producing this new growth. Then it doesn't have the reserves needed to prepare for winter (it needs sugar for antifreeze) and needed to grow out in spring. So in zone 7a and colder, defoliation from blackspot can lead to the death of rose plants over the winter, especially with hybrid teas and floribundas. However, varieties that are more winter-hardy may survive these conditions for years.
I'd check the teeth again to make sure the gift horse wasn't trojan.
Here is a link that might be useful: Best roses for My Area
I had RDV for over 20 years. Every year she got munched by deer. I sprayed her with deer repellant last summer and the deer left her alone. She finally got munched after a good bloom and looked leggy and sparse. Her new home is on a slope with the other old garden roses. Less sun and lots of room to sprawl. The area has been ignored by deer for a long time.
I'll check them out. Have quite a few Vintage moss babies from this year & am anxious to see them mature over the next couple of years.
Dragged Mouseaux du Japon (from Ralph!) up from my old humid zone. It is so happy in this drier climate. Thrown a lot of new canes, bloomed heavier than ever & has good foliage & those "fuzzy caterpillar" canes covered with moss.
The bands bloomed well. I let them throw at least one bloom to assure correct plant has been received--then I disbud.
Also have Dresden Doll, Rene D'Anjou (a favorite) Mel Hulse, Crested Moss, a few others. Not so many moderns. Used to have a bunch of Ralph Moore's but lost a lot of plants in a dang hurricane.
I love to pet the mosses--just love the scent.
"New Dawn" is a great older Large Flowered Climber. It does grow very large and tall
If against a fence, it will probably outgrow the fence and the space around it Expect to do some careful trimming to keep it under control. It flowers on old wood, so heavy pruning has to be avoided.
As already stated, the first few years of a climber are the "establishment" years. You'll want to put the emphasis on growing and training the foundation canes. But with such a vigorous climber as this one is, I wouldn't worry about a few blooms as long as your growing conditions are suitable.
The 'EarthKind' list varies depending on what part of the country you are in. For example, the list used for Texas is different than the one used here (actually, the one used in the NYBG, but that's the closest trial available).. Diseases and disease strains, growing conditions, as well as other factors., can vary from place to place which accounts for the differences,
"New Dawn" happens to not be on the 'EarthKind' list for this area, but it did "pass" the 'Ten Year Trial' at Longwood Gardens in Pennsylvania. Though an older variety, it is still an excellent climber if you can give it the space it needs.
Just FYI, for fence roses we tend to prefer the rambler types because they can be pretty much pruned/cut back as you want so they can never outgrow the fence. But that's just our personal preference..
I get confused about old wood and new wood, but I know from experience that you can prune her laterals hard and she'll bloom well on them. I take it the main canes are the old wood she needs, so it doesn't hurt to prune the laterals? Not pruned off, just much shorter than they like to grow.
I don't know about a fence unless you were to train her main canes horizontally from a low position. Then you could keep her laterals in check (hopefully!) and still see a lot of bloom. I see better bloom when I 'reinvigorate' her laterals; she seems to prefer that here. The really old wood doesn't repeat as well for me (and she's a hard one to pick favorite new basals with! Those thorns are vicious, so what's trained already is what I try to work with, lol).
I had to giggle when I saw the title, but I do know what you mean. She doesn't turn into a monster right away. But she will!
I transplanted one fine, but it was a layered baby without an extensive root system. Once she turns into a monster I don't know how transplanting would go. Before that you should be fine :)
Thank you, Seil and Dan.
I so hoped FedEx Home would show up today, although with a feels like temp of 98, who wants to dig a hole?
This whole rose purchase is so messed up, and it surprises me. It appears to be a huge outfit, Growquest.com.
Once the poor thing gets here I imagine it will need IV fluids! LOL!
Scott in PA
Roundup, which is a form of glyphosate, does not contaminate the soil. However, the fumes and air-borne droplets are almost as toxic to plants as the liquid itself. I would not use Roundup or any other form of glyphosate around the roses.
Woody weeds are tough to get rid of completely. If hand pulling is becoming a problem - and I agree that hand pulling prickly brambles such as blackberries can be tough work - you can try to trace the suckers back to a parent plant and, assuming the parent is well removed from the roses, use Roundup on the parent.
If that doesn't work, cut down the parent plant fairly close to the ground , and apply a stump killer directly to the stump(s). Some of these come RTU in a squeeze-type bottle, and others have to be diluted and applied with a brush.
To repeat, this assumes the parent is well removed from the roses.. Do not put any stump killer on the soil - only on the plant stumps
If you decide to use the Round Up don't spray it. Use a foam paint brush to apply it to the blackberry leaves. There's also a recent thread about applying it with the "glove of death". A cotton glove soaked in RU then wiped on to the leaves. But I agree with Nick. You need to try and kill back the parent plants as well or they'll just keep sending out new shoots.
Rose roots don't really go all that deep, although they can grow widely. If your roses are grafted, which they probably are, you're going to get the rootstock, if you get anything. Dig a pretty big hole in the new spot, water it, then go and cut down most of the rose you want to transplant. When it's rather small, dig it up - you'll probably have to cut some roots or they'll break or tear or you'll cut them with your shovel, but don't worry about it. Cart the rose to the new hole. put the dirt in, and water it like crazy for a couple weeks.
People say to take a lot of dirt with you, but I've found that nearly impossible. I've moved a lot of roses and they usually end up almost bare-root once I yank them out. Used to bother me but now I know they'll grow back just fine.
Or do as suggested and just kill them and get some that you like more.
And if you're putting 2 feet of dirt over the old roots for your raised bed, I don't think you'll have any problem. If you do, just yank out the new growth if any appears. It's going to be parts of the roots and shouldn't be too hard. It won't affect your vegetables at all. Roses are related to apple trees and apples don't affect vegetables either.
I have an own-root Nahema here in humid Sydney. Its parent plant was a sickly, rusty, black spotty specimen but the cutting I took from it is healthy and keen to take over the back fence. But I must admit it hasn't flowered a lot. I just put that down to its youth.
Thank you all for your replies. I am very pleased to hear they are healthy plants. I do have good soil here somewhat acidic, but not to much so maybe they would do good for me here.
I think I will cross off Louie amade. I wasn't to keen on him to begin with.
Grace e
I was thinking thrips, so you should check and make sure that you see thrips (with that paper test) before you use any spinosad. I hadn't thought of botrytis with your pic, but it's not a great pic, lol. Botrytis will keep buds from opening, yeah, and no insecticide will help that.
What MichaelG said -- looks like botrytis to me, a fungus we get with damp weather. Also could be thrips.
Sunny, dry weather should take care of the botrytis, if you can wait.
I just smash aphids with gloved fingers when I see them. A soapy spray can help too, but In my experience, regular insecticides cause more problems than they cure.
Here is a link that might be useful: Photos of Rose Pests and Diseases
Have it for only 2 months so I really don't know for sure about blackspot. But so far even with all the rain and humid weather, nothing has shown up yet, no blackspot and no powdery mildew. and I have it in partial shade. The flowers are just awesome, beautiful form and shade of red and as cut flowers, they last longer than all the other roses.. They look just like florist quality roses even with no spraying.
Michael,
Grand Amore is one of the few HT's with an ADR certification. Eliza and La Perla are two other recent ones.
Grand Amore is very resistant to BS, but this said, I did see a small infection near the end of last season whereas Eliza and La Perla have never been infected in my garden.
All this said, I've grown a lot of the red HT's and Grand Amore has by the best disease resistant of the lot. I used to consider Royal William as the best prior to this.
I had a rose bush with RRD and can say yours looks absolutely normal. Once you've seen RRD you'll never forget it. The link Kim posted shows perfect examples of RRD infected roses. The leaves will be crinkled up. It made me think that the rose leaves had arthritis and couldn't straighten out if that makes sense. When I read that sometimes its called witches broom I had to laugh because when I first spotted it I had said to my husband that it looks like an old witches fingers. The buds on mine were also distorted and most never opened. Before I knew what it was I would just cut the entire cane off as far down as possible but then every year it would grow back looking just as bad if not worse than the year before. After I did some research and found out it was RRD I removed the entire bush root and all and put it right into the trash. I have a few other roses bushes but none of them are showing any signs of infection.
So don't worry. Your roses look fine.
I had a panic attack earlier this spring about some of mine...and I know better, lol! A LOT of roses start out with very red new growth and the thorns are many, small and soft but as they mature and grow out the thorns seem to spread out and harden up and the leaves turn green. RRD growth is always very distorted looking though. Check out Kim's link and you'll see the difference.