22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

so sorry, i thought i had posted my zone. zone 8 NC.

when they bloom again i will try to get pics. thanks for all the advice so far

No need to wait until they bloom... You can post clear closeup pics of any spotted leaves etc.
So the problem can be positively ID-ed...

If you want to know the name of your rose bushes then you would need clear pics of the entire rose bush, blooms, leaves, branching, etc.

Of the four roses I planted, DD is doing the poorest. It was a young plant and got sprayed with a lot of deer repellant when it was young. If it doesn't shape up by the end of the season, I will replace it with another DD next winter. I've had excellent luck with DD in the past in the same garden.

There are many reasons a bloom may pancake. It's just that at this time of year, heat is the most likely suspect. The growth and nourishment normally required for the bloom is short-circuited by the tremendous pressure on the bud to open. Lack of water can excerbate this, too.

St. Patrick is known for being hugely heat-tolerant, but under the right conditions during high-heat, its blooms will pancake with consistency. Double Delight is another one I've seen do this. Mister Lincoln will do it, too.

Some roses get smaller under heat stress, some pancake, some do both.

Nickl's advice is a good rule of thumb for gauging your preferences for how your garden looks. Another thing to consider is competition for water resources, and how much water your rose and companion plants want. A well-established rose might be able to share water with a perennial where a new planting might be happier with more space around it. If water is a low commodity (as in California), I'd think folks would keep the perennials farther away and save the water for the roses. In VT, you probably have enough water to go around.

You also want to consider the water conditions each plant wants, which is why lavender may be a poor companion for roses in some places, since they want it drier than roses do. Coreopsis is pretty adaptable so it should be fine if the rose is fine. I'm definitely on the cottage garden side of things, so there are perennials or other plants bumping up against virtually all my roses, or at least within the drip lines, and they're usually fine with that. The only thing I have to watch is to make sure the mulch doesn't gather up too much around the woody base of the rose, or it'll encourage canker.

If you like the look of the coreopsis under the rose, and the threadlead variety should stay low enough not to compete for vertical space, then you could try letting it share the space for a while and watch the roses for signs of water stress (or canker). If they seem happy, then you can suit yourself as fits your style.

Cynthia

Thanks. Right now, in Vermont, we're drowning in rain, but even under normal conditions, water isn't an issue. I guess I was more concerned about the coreopsis shading the bottom of the rose and hurting it that way. It is certainly within the drip line of the rose. It's not really an esthetic issue, but canker might be a possibility with the rain we've had. Thanks for the responses.

Check out Lavaglut , a dark rich red, & Black Forrest, an ADR rose, both sold by Palatine. 2 good red Easy Elegance roses that should be hardy for you in z5 are Kashmir & Como Park & also Dr. Buck's Polonaise.

Hi Zaphod

First, to be perfectly honest, I'm an unrepentant zone pusher and I don't mind trying roses that aren't supposed to be hardy in my zone only to find that they are. There may be some roses that'll survive in MY zone 5 (but not other zone 5 areas) because we have really hot dry summers, which may give them a stronger start to survive the winters. Also, I do winter protect the roses with leaves around their bases, though I've been getting slacker about that in the past few years.

Having said that, I grow Peggy Rockefeller in the ground, an own root from Roses Unlimited. She's on the side of my house that's a zone 4 pocket, so that speaks well to her winter survival odds. As I recall, I think she's one of the roses that appreciates having the winter protection and I usually remove most of her cane that's above the protection (in that case, it's an intact bag of leaves rolled up against her side for the winter). Still, I think she's at least root hardy in my zone, and I'd definitely give her a try. She has a great dark red color and grows at least 3 feet for me, probably average on the blackspot resistance. By now, the BS sensitive roses have defoliated for a while, but she's OK (I'm also pretty tolerant of BS, though).

Cynthia

I took a picture this evening.
Enjay

Looks like many of those dying leaves have blackspot or cercospora spot. I think it will be OK.

Everyone here has made bad mistakes. It's good that you have been so forthcoming.

To check for water logging, you can stick a pry bar or something 8"-12" deep and sniff for the smell of sewage or anaerobic decay. The simplest treatment for poor drainage is to raise the soil level around the rose six inches above grade, in a couple of stages. The rose will adapt by sending feeder roots into the drainable soil. Most feeder roots are quite near the surface because they need oxygen.

However, if the rose has been waterlogged for months, I think the leaves would have died and dropped off long since. But then, necrotic (dead, brown) spots are not normally characteristic of RMV. Also RMV usually shows as soon as the leaves expand.

Cupping of leaves could result from deficiency of calcium or molybdenum, from powdery mildew, or just at random. I don't think the discoloration you have is characteristic of Ca or Mb deficiency.

Although the name RMV has been utilized in this discussion, one does not know which virus or group of viruses is/are giving these symptoms (if it is virus caused). Leaf cupping is often listed as a possible rose virus result. The link below is rather old (1998), but it appears (to me) to be years ahead of its time regarding the viruses of roses.

"In general, symptoms of virus and viruslike infections that are visible on the leaf may include overall chlorosis (yellowing) or chlorotic mottling; yellowing, or clearing of the veins; green or brown banding of veins (a dark green or brown color that parallels the veins); yellowish green to bright yellow spots and blotches; and various fine lines, some resembling an âÂÂoakleafâ pattern and others appearing as erratic, wavy âÂÂwatermarks,â or as definite rings (Figure 1). The leaves may also be misshapen, puckered, recurved, cupped, twisted, brittle, and smaller than normal. In some cases, the leaves are cast prematurely. Canes often have shorter than normal internodes, resulting in stunting or severe dwarfing of the plant, or a âÂÂballingâ (rosette growth) of the new terminal growth. In some cases, there is severe cane dieback. Only one or a few canes of a plant may exhibit symptoms, or the entire plant may be affected.
With some of these diseases, only the new leaves and canes develop symptoms; with others, it is the mature, older leaves and canes that are visibly affected. Usually, the higher temperatures and drier conditions of summer inhibit virus or virus like activity in the plant. As a result, rose plants that had symptoms of infection in the spring commonly resume normal or near-normal growth in summer. With a return of cooler temperatures in autumn, symptoms often reappear, depending on the variety of rose, the strain of the virus or other agent, and environmental conditions. Although rose plants may seemingly tolerate infection, with symptoms appearing and then disappearing during the year, the agent does exert an overall debilitating effect and may eventually kill the plant. Aside from the acute symptoms that develop on leaves and stems, the plant suffers a chronic decline in vigor that, in cooler climates, increases the chances of winter-kill. Infected plants also show a decline in flower production and quality. Flower petals may show mottling, distortion, and line
markings."

Here is a link that might be useful: link to 1988 article

If I take 8" (or 30") of stem with a spent flower, I call it "deep deadheading." If the rose is too small, I just snap and take no stem. If it is too tall or floppy, I take 1-3 feet of stem. That could also be called "summer pruning," but you would only do it when taking a spent flower off, so it is also deadheading. I think we all understand that, when taking stem off, you should cut just above a leaf. When snapping a peduncle, you don't have to worry about that.

duplicate, sorry.

This post was edited by michaelg on Sun, Jun 30, 13 at 15:07

Susan, in your picture, the white flocky spots on the big green leaflet, top center, appear to be powdery mildew.

Kay, that is interesting about own-root gallicas hating pots, thanks.

Hi poorbutroserich

FYI, all yours are OGRs

Hippolyte - Gallica

Apothecary(?) [assuming it is R. gallica officinalis] - Species

Nuits de Young - Moss

Duc de Cambridge - Damask

Orpheline de Juliet - Hybrid Gallica

Complicata - Hybrid Gallica

'Own Root Damask' - a Damask I am assuming.

Gallicas as a class, and R. gallica itself, usually don't get black spot but do get mildew. Your others are generally susceptible to both.

Those are all once-bloomers, however, and are pretty much finished here before diseases show up. We don't see the point of applying a fungicide to a rose that's done for the season, so we don't use one on any of our once-blooming roses

However, on our repeating OGRs , we do use fungicides as needed for the specific rose.

OK, here's another one, Henry -
Did you not realize that Starlings are one of the worst birds? They're not indigenous to North America.

According to the IUCN (the International Union for the Conservation of Nature) they're on the list of the World's Worst 100 Invasive Species. More to the point, they're responsible for the reduction in chickadees, nuthatches, woodpeckers, purple martins and other swallows (great mosquito controlers).

I love the way their beaks turn orange in the warm seasons, but other than that, they're a trashy bird we'd be better off without.

It does seem odd that I have seen only a few following the horrific infestations experienced three years ago. I trapped many thousands in those years. It had to have had some effect, but the weather may have been the biggest contributing factor.

Home made beetle trap. Soup for everyone!

I just got my final [well, maybe!] order from Vintage Gardens. All the bands look great but some of them look like mature roses they are so thick and big. I am wondering if I should pot them up in a bigger pot than a one gallon? Or if I should pot them all in one gallon pots and check the roots at the end of the summer. Thanks!
Judith

If they're that large and mature, definitely go the larger size. Why smoosh the roots into a gallon where they'll be stressed for a couple of months then have to repot when you can spread them out in a two and leave them for months longer? I use whatever size the plant impresses me it needs. Many fit nicely in gallons. Some demand to go large right off the bat. As long as you're not going band to five gallon or larger, you can't really hurt anything. Go for it! Kim