22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

Jeri:

You have to understand what this notice means. ALL pesticides have to follow specific EPA regulations - no exceptions.

This notice means that a particular manufacturer has voluntarily decided they don't want to comply with the specific EPA regulations. By itself, it doesn't mean anything for or against that particular pesticide and/or the active ingredient

Many of those on the list are simply there for economic reasons, The manufacturer is not making enough money on its version of the product and doesn't want to go though the expense of compliance.

It also may be that other manufacturers produce the same product.

For example: You'll notice that Clorox cleaner (active ingredient- sodium hypochlorite) is on the list. I fully expect that you will able to continue to buy laundry bleach (active ingredient- sodium hypochlorite) after January 2014 ;-)

This is a different situation from when the EPA ITSELF issues a notice that they are cancelling the registration on a product and/or an active ingredient.

This post was edited by nickl on Thu, Jun 27, 13 at 9:01

nicki stated: "This is a different situation from when the EPA ITSELF issues a notice that they are cancelling the registration on a product and/or an active ingredient."

H.Kuska comment. Please notice the following from a 2006 government document: "EPA officials say the actâÂÂs legal standards for demonstrating unreasonable risk are so high that they have generally discouraged EPA from using its authorities to ban or restrict the manufacture or use of existing chemicals. Since Congress enacted TSCA in 1976, EPA has issued regulations to ban or limit the production of only five existing chemicals or groups of chemicals."

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nickl, of course your original statement is formally correct that the manufacturer may have decided to cancel on its own. However, it is my impression that the EPA often/always? gives a manufacture with a problem chemical the chance to not reapply (sort of to save face), and as stated above in the testimony quote rarely has utilized the second option.

Thus, the general public cannot say why a product is not reregistered.

Here is a link that might be useful: Actions Are Needed to Improve the Effectiveness of EPAâs Chemical Review Program

jeri:

Do you have a reference to black spot infestation being observed on Knock Out roses? We have been growing the original Knock Out essentially since it was first released and at most have seen only a few insignificant spots on the foliage - nothing that I would call an actual BS infestation.

The same is true of our other roses in the same family, although of course we haven't been growing them nearly as long.

This is an area of high disease pressure for BS, so if it was going to happen anywhere, I would expect to see it here.

The Knock Outs do get mildew - in fact, they seem to be quite susceptible to it. At least two of the growers who called me last year to check out the "black spot" on their Knock Out roses actually had mildew. .So I'm assuming others had it, too.

KO is susceptible to cercospora disease, and most people can't tell that from blackspot. I've seen it make KOs look pretty bad. I have never seen a significant BS outbreak on KO. You might find a spot on a senile leaf here and there.

I don't pull off spotty (from BS) leaves. If they are yellow and fall off to the touch, I knock those off, but I figure that green leaves are still working for the plant. There is enough BS in my garden that I don't think culling spotty leaves will help regarding risk of infection.

I have a lot of roses that do well but have various levels of spotty foliage. The infection only goes so far sometimes, apparently (just an observation, not something I've researched).

I definitely have a few roses whose foliage yellows and actually drops, so I'm familiar with that, but it might not happen to all spotty leaves, depending on your conditions compared to mine, etc, of course :) MIP has pretty new leaves at the moment, after dropping every leaf she had this year.

I do cut out ugly parts of canes if they look to have anything more than BS on them. But we get cankers/die back so easily in spring that I just don't risk anything weird cane-spreading. I don't cut green canes with BS spots, but if they are going yellow from it, I cut below the yellow. Yellowing canes are usually toast sooner or later, in my experience.

Susan, mildew on your other plants is a different species that does not affect roses, nor does rose mildew affect them.

The rose species affects apples, but apparently they are different races that rarely cross-infect.

Yes our cats are siblings... (sisters)
We got them when they were tiny kittens...
We taught them when they were kittens to stay within our fenced in backyard area and they always have so far after 9 years.
Even with rabbits in the neighbors yards they do not try to leave...
The cat on the left is lacy who loves to catch little critters...
The cat on the right is cagney whom could care less about catching anything...lol
Cagney & Lacy....

Precious cats!!! Your digging dogs are awfully cute,too! I have had terrible problems with voles. They are worse than the rabbits. I even considered getting a cat, but I am allergic so......that won`t work! Moles do no damage to my garden, but my yard can become a mess. Mother Nature can be difficult, that`s for sure! lesley

Thanks a lot for the replies! Glad to know its the scent I smelled in the garden center. I received my 2 from heirloom today. Will be putting them in the ground soon. A quick note though, there were 3 bushes in the rose garden of CM, and the other two seemed healthy but one was covered in something (blackspot?) and looked weak. From what I heard though, the disease resistance is good with this rose, am I right? And I'm guessing it needs full sun? Unlike some other Austin's that wouldn't mind shade at parts of the day?

Thanks again!

Mine is planted on the east side of my house along the front porch. It gets morning sun and by 1 PM it is shaded. It is just as happy as it can be. No blasting full sun that can cook or fade the blooms.

I have both and think Mr Lincoln is a much better rose

Great description & pic of FF pat_bamaZ7... :)
Glad to hear your Lincoln does so well dmoore66 ....:)

Of COURSE ignorance and lack of research have kept ND a popular rose. That's how the vast majority of the rose buying public actually buys their roses!

But around here the reason it sells well is because there are so many out there in neighborhoods looking wonderful and people see it and want it. It's that simple.

Now, I also have a theory why in my area there are so many ND and not many examples of other things. In the early 80s we had a several nights in a row well below zero and it wiped out all the teas and other warm weather roses that can do well here. ND is hardy a couple zones colder than most teas and it was still early in the general interest of Old Roses. I suspect many that were lost were unidentified and/or unavailable commercially even if you knew what they were. So they weren't for the most part replaced. But the ND lived on.

As to why I have them by those doorways? We don't use those doors--they are mainly for show. A hallway is on the other side and stray cane blooming on the other side of the window is a pretty lovely thing to see as you walk down that hallway. An quite frankly it's a perennial garden and it's just not that big of a deal to whack it back when needed. And I can whack it back and not worry if I've hurt it feelings or if it's going to sulk. It can completely defoliate from rose slugs and a few weeks later be back in business.

Considering all the temperamental, fragile, accident prone roses out there, there is always going to be a market for a robust one. Don't get me wrong there are things I don't like about it and since I bought them I've discovered other possibilities that might be as good or better and I've considered replacing them. But if I replace them it won't be because of their exuberance!

I have two :) Mine repeat nicely (not continuously, but nice flushes), so I never get the comments about repeat other than to notice that I must've gotten a good clone.

I think her blooms are gorgeous. Much better in person, imho. But her utility for me is that she blooms in so much shade it's unreal!

I have one just cut and transplanted behind 6 ft tall old, old boxwoods and she's even blooming behind them, lol. She'll eventually climb up her wall trellis and find the sun, but I didn't expect that she'd bloom there at 2 ft tall :) The soil isn't great, as you'd imagine with boxwood roots thicker than your wrist. No problem for that girl :D

I'm not going to deadhead her, though! She's to be seen at a distance anyway there. I'll prune/tie once every year and that's it for that area.

My other one grows in evergreen trees under huge maple trees and just does her thing. I prune her pretty severely, but I just don't want her too tall or wild there. The pruning is more severe but it's no more work in my mind than the pruning I do on all my mature climbers.

I never did let her get out of hand in the first place, mind you. That would not be a good idea with New Dawn at all, no :) Bad soil is practically a prerequisite at the least, imho. (That's after she puts out more mature growth, btw, y'all. You could actually kill her as a little baby plant, I'd imagine).

Have Koko Loko here in Chicagoland(z5) planted last spring and has been a disappointment to me. Lost half the plant (while mounded) over the winter and the colors are just okay to me. Honestly, my ten year old Distant Drums is similar in color but much more hardy and free flowering. To be fair, my Koko Loko is grafted and I don't have much luck with grafted.

Mine is in second year and doing fairly well. Only about 12-15 inches tall. Am hopeful for future. Awesome color and form. DD is taller and more vigorous for me, but the myrrh is not my fave.

As Zack says, it sounds like you didn't prune enough to get rid of winter damaged canes.

Exposed grafts will be an issue if the temperature drops to around zero, which it will in Nashville sooner or later. Plant future roses with the graft just underground. With long-shanked fortuniana grafts, plant the rose slanting at a 30-degree angle to the grade so you don't have to bury the rootstock roots a foot deeper than they want to be. Cut off any roots that would project above the surface because of the angled planting.

Awesome! Thank you gentlemen. This was my first Spring pruning and I pruned too soon I believe. Thanks for the fort planning instructions too.
Susan

The main difference in damage symptoms between spider mites and thrips damage is that thrips are usually associated with irregularly shaped white or greyish-white spots distributed mainly along the mid-rib and side veins of plant leaves; while similar symptoms caused by spider mites are distributed randomly on leaves. Found this at http://old.padil.gov.au/pbt/index.php?q=node/13&pbtID=116 In addition, I see the leaf turning bronze colored then looking at the underside of the leaf with a magnifying glass can see small white "dots" moving around. This is the mite.
You will need to use a "miticide" to controll or kill the mites. It is difficult to do and you have to us a regular spray program. Miticides can be expensive, but I found a Spectricide product at my local Ace hardware that works for me.

Just a note on thrips.

The Knock Out family seems to be particularly attractive to thrips. So much so that we can use our Knock Outs as "canaries in the coal mine" to give us an early warning that thrips are around and we should be on the lookout for them on our other roses.

It's leaf stress - heat and drought, rain at the wrong time, old age leaves, etc.

That is not RMV.

Thank you all! I guess I'll just wait and see. It has been an incredibly wet spring thus far here

So, can I thin out the old canes and also lop off end growth on the longer canes that have just gotten too long and made the entire shrub too big for me?

Thanks again.

Yes.