21,401 Garden Web Discussions | Roses


Absolutely true, Seil, about the importance of location. I lost a Tiffany about 4 years ago when the Dr. Huey rootstock overtook her. She was doing wonderfully and in full sun (I'm in southern CT). Still haven't found her again. This year I also lost Tamora and Just Joey to the hurricane.
Sad, sad Molie here.

kstrong, that is a very interesting piece of information regarding patent protection and older Austin varieties.
I am a big D.A. fan and grow over 30 varieties, many released before 1990 and several before 1980. I seldom spray and am quite willing to put up with a small amount of BS. But I too get very tired of the bad rap that the entire DA collection gets tarred with for lack of disease resistance.
Every time I hear DA roses broadly denounced as being unhealthy, several varieties come to mind for which that statement is just not true.
For example, Jayne Austin and Crown Princess Margarita. I have grown them both in two very different climates and both are virtually disease proof in my experience. I then looked them both up on HMF to see how others rate them and guess what? That seems to be the general consensus there as well. Add to that the fact that both have blooms and fragrance that are sublime and the fact that they can handle zone 5 winters and you have in IMHO two DA roses that can compete with any others as worthy garden plants. There are others that perform equally well.
I grow them, I love them and I have had huge luck with them. I have a bunch of new plants arriving next week, including some very new DA varieties that I want to trial. But I also have a couple of old rare DA varieties that I have lusted for for years coming.
Different folk, different tastes; different areas, different results; that is part of the allure of rose gardening.
Cheers, Rick

I don't feel it's at all wrong of Austin to not want to promote roses that, by human error, he never managed to get a patent on. Without patents as economic incentive, many roses would never be made available to the rest of us. No one is obliged to sell roses that don't profit himself? I think it is also pretty common for rose vendors to quit selling roses , still under patent, if it is not a profitable rose.
Austin has invested considerable time and money creating what has become essentially his own "class" of roses: Austin/English. Managing his channels helps improve the exclusivity of his roses- which benefits his vendors too. It behooves us who like his creations that he remain profitable and stay in business-- and doesn't end up in straits like J&P, High Country Gardens and being sold out.

With my pruners I cut the canes into short pieces. The leafy, thinner parts get put under the roses as mulch. The thicker canes I save and put as barriers around new band roses I've bought to keep the squirrels and bunnies from eating them. Since I grow a lot of old roses such as teas, chinas and polyanthas, they thankfully don't need a lot of pruning and they also tend to have thinner canes that are easy to chop into little pieces to drop under the roses as mulch. I garden organically but don't have much disease, and blackspotted leaves, once they're off the rose, dry up and don't transmit disease. I also put large canes on the leaf litter under the trees and with the rain they decompose there after a few years.

The theory is that the airborne mites will not recognize the leaves as rose leaves so they will choose to move on.
This was inspired by the mites being unwilling to stay on leaves of R. bracteata in laboratory experiments.
At least two rose growers in the central and eastern US have had lower RRD infection rates than they might have had otherwise possibly because of their use of antitranspirant sprays.
To try to answer Lainey's question, I'd need to know where Lainey lives. IF in east Tennessee, I'd start spraying antitranspirants in mid May, or if this heat hold, next week. Midsummer, if temps are above 70s at night, probably not, and then again in August September and maybe into October. This comes with no guarantees. But there is some logic behind it. The problem is, that conditions (local temps, temps in upwind areas where the mites are established, future winds) do vary continually.
This is an attempt to reduce disease pressure on a garden and it has some limited success.




Hoovb,
That was an own-root Hydrid Tea Precious Platinum...
Sadly it started really declining in it's 4th year
with severe BS...Big time!
So in that sense not so amazing...
But no matter what you did to it that rose would come
back...lol

Order the Bayer Rose, Flower, and Shrub Disease Control (tebuconazole fungicide only) by mail order if you need to. It is by far the best product for controlling blackspot.
Return the 3-in-1 if you haven't opened it. Insecticides should not be applied routinely to roses. Just pick off the beetles and drop them in soapy water.
The Ortho fungicide is fairly effective used every 7 days, so go ahead and use it up. But the Bayer product is effective used every 14 days, and it actually kills the blackspot body inside the leaf. During very hot, dry weather you can skip some sprayings and resume as soon as small black spots reappear. (Inspect frequently.)

No plastic bags for frost covers. I made the mistake once of covering plants with plastic tarps and had worse damage than the places where I didn't cover at all. If the plastic is touching the plant in any place it will freeze and burn the plant. Everything under that tarp was black (and died) when I pulled it off. The things outside the cover were only a little crisp around the edges and survived. Sheeting provides the needed cover but if it touches the plants won't transmit the cold and damage them.

Thank you, Seil. That has never happened to me! Wonder if it is because the dry cleaner bags are very light weight and I always remove them first thing in the morning. I find them really useful for the budded out tops of my tree roses. I would CRY if those were damaged.

Kitty, your pictures are beautiful. The retaining wall with shorter roses in front should finish off that area beautifully. I hope we'll see pictures when that area is finished. I'll be interested to find out what smaller roses you'll choose. Some of the short Austins and polyanthas would be lovely, or roses like Sweet Chariot, Blue Mist or Vineyard Song. You probably already have some great ideas of your own.
Ingrid


Thanks for the complements on the Mme Plantier/Geranium combo. Actually, when I did it, I wasn't even thinking about combos. I was thinking this is a boring rose 11 months of the year -- what can I put here that will be interesting the rest of the time? Geraniums bloom year around here, so that was the plan. Mme. Plantier only does that blooming thing for one month in June, and I actually put the rose there to hide the shed -- which it does very well. So most of the time, the rose is just providing a ladder for the geranium to hide the shed.
But that picture was three years ago, and those plants still are co-existing there just fine with very little care of any kind. Mme. Plantier doesn't even require spraying for mildew which makes it a rarity here.
And Debbie, with the morning glories, my advice is to take the whole yard out -- herbicide -- and then start over. The problem at my mother's house is she wants to save the roses -- but it would have been SO much easier to blast the whole thing and then replant the roses. And wear gloves. Morning glory sap is a strong allergen through skin. (stuff I learnt the hard way).
This post was edited by kstrong on Thu, Apr 11, 13 at 10:27

Well, Hey, another northerner (exiled to genteel Cambridge from t'other side of the Pennines from you (Oldham!....and I am never going back).
So yep, in agreement with everyone - pretend they have been bare-rooted and treat them as such - in the ground, plenty of watering for this summer and a dose of something heavy on the potassium at the end of the summer. As for the blooms, there is logic in removing new buds....but, I find that roses which have got mature top growth and fairly thick canes are less fragile than new cuttings or baby first year roses - the stored energy in the canes will mitigate the lack of feeder roots and moreover, the rose seems to have an innate 'sense' for how much blooming growth it can comfortably sustain - in our shorter, milder climate, it will flower quite sparingly, if much at all. Queen Elizabeth is a tall and vigorous rose for us in the UK (must be a giant in California).

Camp....
Since I live further north and up in the mountains, I have a shorter growing season than when I lived in Socal. What an adjustment ... lol.
I found that I need to dis-bud all of my rose garden after the first rose curclio migrates into the garden and have found that the dis-budding does lead to stronger plants. That said, you brought up a very important point, and I do apologize. I should have qualified my post "in my climate". Thanks for the heads-up.
Smiles,
Lyn
PS... after I protected QE from deer last year, the rose jumped to 6' tall. We'll see what happens this year, since it is starting the season as a less "stressed" plant.




Take Kate's advice and relax and give them some time.
I never prune off canes to 6 inches unless that's how far down the die back is. That's very old information and was, for the most part, meant for people who exhibit their roses. The thought was that you would get longer stems on your HTs for showing. I only prune down what has had winter damage. You can tell good wood from bad by the color of the pith at the center of the cane. White/greenish is healthy. Tan/brown is dead. Cut them back to where you find healthy pith. That will often leave them much taller than 6 inches depending on the winter.
As for how tall you can expect them to get, that varies by the variety of rose, health and climate conditions. Some roses grow very tall and narrow and others become low and wide and all points in between. Each variety has it's own growth habit. My Memorial Day bets 6 or 7 feet tall but only maybe 2 feet wide. Hot Romance, on the other hand, is maybe 2 feet tall but gets 4 feet wide because it sends out canes sideways instead of up. They all have their own personalities.
Your roses are very new and immature yet. It takes a rose at least 3 years to fully mature and sometimes longer. But, yes, they should grow at least a foot or more this season and they will bloom for you. Watch them and take notes on how they grow for you in your garden conditions. With time you'll get to know their personalities.
Taller HTs like Tiffany, once established, will grow about 10" per month of growing season if they get enough water. You will probably want to control the height of the plant by taking long stems when deadheading later in the season, when plants have reached 4'-5' tall.
HTs are pruned to remove winter damage (you normally won't have much in 7a) and to keep them from getting too tall, such that you can't reach the flowers, or the canes break over in rain and wind. Modern advice is to prune the taller varieties to around 16" and the bushier varieties to 2'-3', unless winter damage goes deeper.
As for new plants in the first season, they grow as much as they grow, and some start better than others.