21,400 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

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erasmus_gw

Nice plants. Pink Rosette is very interesting.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 9:54AM
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lesmc

Thanks for posting this...they look wonderful. Happy planting and Happy Spring!! Lesley

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 1:42PM
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billsgarden13(5, Chicago, IL)

To all:

I just heard back from the seller (Hirt's Gardens) and they responded that they don't carry any grafted roses- so this is an own root with just one heck of a basal shoot!

Thanks again for all of your help and insight!

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 9:51AM
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jacqueline9CA

So glad you figured it out. A clue for future reference is that the new growth (red) on the older cane looks just like the new growth (red) on the new cane. It does NOT look at all like Dr. Huey, the most used rootstock, which (at least here) produces new leaves that are green with red edges.

Jackie

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 1:35PM
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susan4952(5)

Hi Ed. Use the search feature at the bottom of this page. Tons of start to finish info. Stored on this site. Have fun and welcome to the addiction.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 10:58PM
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rosetom(7 Atl)

I posted in your other thread, but I have a slightly different take on the holes in red clay. Done properly, Dr. Huey may actually prefer red clay than other soils. ;-) In my experience, deep is better than wide - may have to do with what's already been mentioned about roses needing to drain. I actually put a few small pebbles at the bottoms of my holes just to ensure that there's some drainage below the roots - but my holes are deep - 2 feet minimum, sometimes more. I also don't mix as much other stuff in with the clay as others do - about 30% peat moss with a cup of Mills Mix and that's it. If the rose roots can drain well, they'll like the red clay just fine and have no trouble growing through it, around it, and all over. The last thing I do is mulch - mulch, mulch, mulch. Shredded pine bark is best. It holds its shape pretty well. I mound it up in the center (no issue with shredded pine bark touching the canes) and then create large, 3-foot donut drip rings. When it breaks down, it forms organics that the roses love. I think they even love the smell. ;-)

Others are right, though, if you completely replace the soil in the red clay hole, you're doing little more than creating an in-ground clay pot.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 9:55AM
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Ed Spangler

thanks mzstitch, will use your advice, what can I do for the 4 estaoblished rose bushes? One Yellow 3 Red?? What should I feed them during Spring /Summer??? By the way, my brother in law lives in York!! Also have friends in Kings Mountain and Rock Hill, email me and I will tell you their names, you may know them.
Thanks
Ed

    Bookmark   March 20, 2013 at 1:10PM
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rosetom(7 Atl)

I agree that there should be nothing wrong with red clay and roses. Dr. Huey simply loves it. As others have said, though, hole preparation is important. Even though I'm in Atlanta, I bury every bud union at least a couple of inches below the surface.

Then I mulch, mulch, mulch - shredded pine bark works best for me. It breaks down in about a third to a half-season, but it retains shape well and doesn't wash away easily. I mound up the center quite a bit (there's no issue with shredded pine mulch against the canes) and then form a large drip ring around the center - like a 3-foot donut.

BTW, for newly planted bare roots - you should cover the canes completely with a center mound of mulch. Let the canes and shoots find their way out. That protects the bush until the roots gain some footing.

No one's said it yet, but all the talk about "feeding" may be a bit much. Use organics and lay off the hard fertilizer until you know you have an established bush - and even then use it sparingly. I can't say enough about Magic Mills Mix from Beaty fertilizer (you can get it from Rosemania, too). The stuff is great. I use a cup mixed with about 30% peat moss in the red clay to replace the soil in the hole. That's after removing all the rocks, by the way. Ensuring that the hole is deep rather than wide seems to work best in my clay.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 9:43AM
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Ronn Bonites

Bumping this thread. Thanks again for the suggestions everyone!

This post was edited by Resolute_Noir on Sun, Mar 17, 13 at 11:51

    Bookmark   March 14, 2013 at 6:52AM
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Ronn Bonites

So today, I just found out about R. bracteata and it was apparently native to my country. (I'm gonna look for it everywhere here whenever I go out of town from now on!)

My question now is...
Any recommendations on Hybrid Bracteatas?
Also, would R. bracteata be good for breeding?

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 6:39AM
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roseseek

Many food plants aren't easily available anymore not so much due to their genetic instability as to their lack of being financially profitable. The only way to make a plant type economically worthwhile is to possess a patent on it. Once that patent expires, you need others to take its place to continue the cash stream.

Often, older varieties are less resistant to disease and/or insect infections which may not have been issues when they were widely grown. Here in the west, we have Pierce's Disease, which was discovered near Anaheim in 1892 on grapes. It wasn't a huge threat until Glassy Winged Sharp Shooters, native to the South Eastern US were discovered to have made it across country in 1996. We had older varieties of grapes which could still be grown for a century until the wide spread pest began spreading the fatal disease throughout the susceptible types. We now have fatal diseases in citrus due to the same reason...foreign pests spreading them. Look at what is happening to Oleanders here in California. They were the perfect "weed"...toxic so NOTHING ate them; able to endure rather deep cold and blistering heat; able to exist on relatively little water; requiring virtually nothing to thrive and provide many months of unending color...until Oleander Leaf Scorch arrived, also spread by Glassy Winged Sharp Shooters. It's the Oleander strain of the same bacteria which causes Pierce's Disease, spread by the same insect. There was 12' - 15' tall, 50' long hedge of Oleanders out behind this house from the late fifties until four years ago. They existed on only rainfall and provided an excellent wind and privacy barrier. Over the period of four years, they flat out died from the Leaf Scorch. Oleander hedges all over the valley show the effects of the disease. Some nurseries aren't selling Oleanders any more due to the disease.

Many older fruit and vegetable varieties are much less resistant to bacterial and fungal attacks making them more costly and difficult to raise or even maintain. "Resistant" is a huge marketing word when advertising any plant type. Unless you are insistent upon getting the exact older type you desire, most purchasers opt for "resistant" to diseases and pests over heirloom fruit, particularly when the less resistant cost more because they are more expensive to maintain and produce.

Some aren't kept around because of greater cultural requirements or greater space requirements. For rose standards, IXL was the trunk stock of choice for many decades because it generates tremendous growth of very thick canes very quickly, but it also requires significantly greater room to grow mother plants and is much more susceptible to sun scald than Dr. Huey. IXL makes a better standard in less time, but Huey is the standard stock in use now because it requires less room to produce and is cheaper due to less sun scald loss.

Some are being lost due to climate change. Sweet cherries are now not as successful in the more southern orchards because of insufficient winter chill and too great summer heat, as well as insufficient rainfall. If the heat continues pressing northward, it's entirely possible the high chill requiring types may be lost in favor of less winter chill types because there won't BE orchards with enough cold. Plants and animals are already moving north, taking advantage of the milder conditions where the more extremes used to prevent them success. Kim

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 9:14PM
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bluegirl_gw

In addition to losing ancient foundation stock & seeds in plants, it's a concern with livestock, too. England & Europe have scores of breeds of chickens, cattle, sheep & pigs adapted for small homesteads or severely restricted environments. The Rare Breeds Conservatory tries to preserve these treasures from extinction.

The book RARE BREEDS is a gorgeous picture book of some wonderful representatives of old livestock. There is a Scottish sheep that lives on SEAWEED most of the year, White Park cows that were familiar to the Romans, maybe even the Druids, four-horned Jacob sheep, etc. . Africa & India are also reservoirs of some incredible cattle breeds--gigantic-horned Watusi cows, many races of Zebus ranging from milk breeds to draft animals (In the U.S. we simply call all humped cattle "Brahmas"--the rest of the world recognizes they have distinct races--Nelore, Indu-Brazil, Gyr, etc.)

Sorry for the tangent, but the effort to preserve the precious genetic heritage of endangered roses & livestock (not just the more publicized preservation of wildlife & food crops) is really interesting (at least to me!)

As J. L. Hudson puts it: "Preservation through dissemination"

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 11:10PM
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Campanula UK Z8

Maigold - an outstanding climber with excellent disease resistance.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 5:12PM
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Gabrielsyme

Maigold looks gorgeous but probably won't grow in my region.

I'm thinking about Quadra because it's such a vigorous climber and I want something cane-hardy so that it will get big enough to cover the house.

What I really want to know is weather or not this is a reasonable possibility. Most nurseries list it (and pretty much all other climbers) as topping out around 12'. Is this true? I've seen several pictures of Quadra that look like it's growing much higher.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 8:44PM
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roseseek

Rogue Valley has the precise one you seek, but not propagated right now. From their web site: Kim

This is a recent rediscovery in an abandoned garden on Alcatraz Island by Gregg Lowery and Phillip Robinson. The plant that we have is still quite young but already is showing the characteristics that they site: vigorous, floriferous, fragrant. The blooms are almost black red.

Here is a link that might be useful: RVR Bardou Job

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 8:24PM
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1101(7 MS)

FJ,

I live in MS. I tend to gravitate toward own root. How will it differ if it is grafted rather than own root?

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 9:14AM
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lagomorphmom(z10Coastal and z8Mtn CA)

My YP (grafted) never thrived either. Pained me to shovel it as the occasional flowers were really exceptional, and I'm a sucker for frilly petals.

Peter Mayle lasted longer and was a beast before mildew finally took it's toll. I would say the flowers look nothing like YP, but there were beautiful in their own right, especially in size, 'bout as big as a grapefruit.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 8:11PM
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WombatEd(10b)

Thanks, Kim.

I'm in Torrance, where it doesn't get terribly hot, and I usually get a SMALL bit of a sea breeze and overcast. The sun isn't all that intense this week, but we've already had a couple of mild hot spells.

My main concern is the health of the plants - I can wait 'til next "winter" to make 'em pretty, if that's the healthiest option.

As a newbie, I see all this literature about when an how to prune, but not much about what is done for the health of the plant vs. what is done for aesthetic reasons.

I read about stripping leaves to force dormancy, but I gather that should be done in January, not March.

I do need to cut back a bit, they're encroaching the public sidewalks.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 1:55PM
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roseseek

You're welcome Ed. And, welcome! Torrance is mild enough for you to be able to prune what's needed and not have major issues. I'd go lightly, not removing more than about a third of the foliage and cane mass until you get to know the individual plants and how they respond. Some explode right back into growth after pruning. Others begrudgingly offer a few measly inches. Once you know what their responses will be, you know how to attack them. For growth encroaching upon the walks and doors, that falls into the "you do what you have to do" area. Public (and YOUR) safety take precedence. A good friend lives just down the hill from South Coast Botanical and she has just finished her pruning, so your timing isn't far off. I'll be at her home helping her plant her pot ghetto this weekend. Kim

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 2:14PM
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seil zone 6b MI

There are several roses named Valerie but as far as I can see none of them are available for sale.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 12:04PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

The plant called "Rose of Sharon" is not a rose, but a species of Hibiscus (H. syriacus). While there will likely be people on this forum who are familiar with Hibiscus, your best bet is to ask on the actual Hibiscus forum. I'm putting a link to it below. Good luck!

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: Hibiscus Forum at GardenWeb

    Bookmark   March 20, 2013 at 7:36PM
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roseseek

Karla, "Althea" or Rose of Sharon, is an extremely hardy, persistent plant. They root EXTREMELY easily in water and (at least in my climate) can be dug, pruned and transplanted as long as they are still dormant (without leaves). They can be severely pruned and will explode back into growth and flower as much bushier plants. If you're in an area still experiencing severe winter weather, wait until your extremes are over and prune them after your chance of last frost. At that time, you can probably transplant them easily and safely. Just keep them watered if you aren't having rains. Good luck and have fun with them. They're great plants! Kim

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 1:02AM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

I love Steve Singer's roses, but I only recommend Wisconsin Roses for rose growers with a little more experience (and a lot of patience). Although Steve's instructions are clear, I think that a newbie might be a little overwhelmed. Steve sells newly-budded maiden roses, and require a little more work to get them started. But, you're right, if someone wants great hybrid teas (Steve has some minis and floribundas too), and you can grow on R. multiflora rootstock, then check out Wisconsin Roses.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wisconsin Roses

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 10:43PM
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TNY78(7a-East TN)

Ken I have ordered from Steve and his roses are WONDERFUL! Plus, I get a kick out of cutting the top off the multiflora plant! :) I mainly grow OGRs, ployanthas, and hybrid musks and Steve generally sells exibition type roses. I would LOVE it if another US seller, or Steve, would offer more varieties with multiflora rootstock. Maybe someone will catch on that theres a need for it since it seems the Canadian sellers are having issues importing.

Tammy

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 11:56PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

A friend sent that today, via FB, and asked, had I done it. I replied that I had not -- but that I read Liz Druitt's account of trying to do it some years ago, and why she failed. Here's my reply:

(Therein hangs a tale, of course.)

It really is, apparently, true that roses were started in that manner, and carried across North America in pioneer wagons. Probably, some brought them along that way, coming to CA by sea.

Rosarian and author, Liz Druitt, decided to give it a try.
She got some potatoes, did some cuttings, and put the cuttings into the potatoes. They all promptly died.
Tried it again.
They all died.
So, she began asking questions.

The reason it worked for the pioneers is that in them there days, you went out to the garden and dug up a potato. OR you bought one from a greengrocer, who got them from a reasonably local farmer.

The reason it didn't work for her is that potatoes, now, are dipped in chemicals to retard root growth. (Which cost both cooks and grocers a lot of money.)

The chemicals work. They prevent the potato from rooting, and they prevent any cuttings shoved into the potato from rooting.

It would probably work just fine, if you had un-treated potatoes. Organic potatoes.
But what the heck -- we have advantages today that the folks in 1850 didn't have. You can buy really good growth hormones to encourage roots. You can get some nifty seaweed compounds that encourage plant growth. And you can chop up willow twigs to make a tea that will stimulate growth (which folks have been doing for a thousand or so years). You can get good potting soils, and you can make a "cloche" (think, teeny greenhouse) out of a plastic soda pop bottle.

Who needs potatoes? ;-)

A friend suggested that I could grow my own potatoes for the purpose. But, given the success we have with other methods, I replied that if I went to the trouble of growing potatoes, I would EAT them.

Jeri

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 9:16PM
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susan4952(5)

Lol. That is an interesting fact about the pioneers. I learn something new everyday.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 10:55PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

I don't see any problems with this, Peachy -- unless you visualize unanimity of size of mature plants.

Jeri

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 9:24PM
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peachymomo(Ca 8)

Great! I was thinking the order would come from the shape of the garden as well as uniform companions, and then the roses could be more wild and varied.

My Lemon Spice has been growing in a pot for about two years, it's got a few canes that are a few feet long. I think it will be fine, if the Marchesa blocks the view I'll just have to cut the Lemon Spice flowers and bring them inside to enjoy.

Thanks for the help!

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 10:54PM
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