22,795 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
And PARTICULARLY, as Mad Gallica notes -- THE TYPE OF ROSE . . .
Some roses are inclined to rust, while others are not.
If they are the former, they might rust even standing in solitary splendor. The answer might not be removing the perennials, but changing the roses out for more disease-resistant ones.
Jeri
I like to be able to get in and weed around all the roses. With a good spraying program or disease resistant roses, they will actually grow and bloom vigorously when packed rather closely together. But, a major concern for exhibitors is that you will lose leaf set--which means that that particular stem can only be used in classes where foliage isn't a factor.
A tea rose sounds like a good choice for your pot. The Fairytale roses I tried here grew so large and put out big stiff canes that I wonder if a pot would be too small right away. Also, I think the reblooming might be faster on the tea roses than on the fairytale roses. I think some of the fairytale roses probably rebloom faster and stay smaller where its cooler. The only exception for me was Lion's fairytale but it didn't start reblooming well until it's 3rd year in the ground after it got really large.
Not to discourage anyone from the FT roses because they are good disease free roses with shapes similar to DA's roses.
My neighbor cuts hers back severely whenever she gets irritated with cercospora fungus on the foliage--she did that around July 1 and they are blooming again now. Don't prune hard during the fall months. I am not sure whether it is already too late in the season in zone 5. I would follow seil's advice.
I notice around here that the regular Knock out grows faster than the double Knockout...More vigor...
What you guys/gals observe in your areas?
Its been cooler here since end of July I have a feeling
that may mean early winter weather this year... :(
I hope not though.....
During the spring I was too cheap to buy it, rationalizing that I could make a similar mix from bulk stuff cheaper.
Now that it's hot as heck I'm snapping it up, mostly at pretty good prices, since it's a bit off-season. That hand-mixing bulk stuff is a pain.
The MG is so fluffy & well-draining. I'm re-potting the bands now in gallons in it. I have them in a 1/2 (good, bought) native soil & 1/2 pine fines (Hapigro landscape mix).
They almost all look very good. Dr. Grill, Mme Charles, Pink Rosette, Coronado, Atomic White are literally climbing out of the pots. The bands I put in the ground with that mix are even bigger. Sunsprite is a 3' multi-caned plant--a couple of canes are probably 3/8" thick. These are spring delivered bands that looked very nice on delivery.
Bands I potted up last fall in the native soil with some coarse mulch are okay, but not near as robust as the plants from spring in the fines/native mix.
The fruit trees we planted in a mostly MG potting mix this spring look fantastic & have never wilted.
Yeah, it seemed extravagant this spring to buy MG but when I look at how the valuable plants we did put in it last spring have thrived--I'm going to get it at the best price I can & stock up.
I just went out & priced peat--2.2cu.ft. bale was $20. I don't think I can duplicate the MG potting mix at the price it's already offered at--& consider the labor--in this heat! I have also tried several store brands but they seem to have less peat & more fines. For my caliche desert area with thin sandy soil, the amount of peat really fluffs the soil & holds the water when mulched without caking up into a dry clump.
I'm going to fluff up the store brands with a bit more peat to get them to a similar tilth. I've also been adding about a tablespoon of Osmocote per mixed gallon in my experimental native + fines mix.
Sorry for the ramble, bottom line: right now I'm leaning towards putting more stuff in MG potting mix when I consider price + labor.
Coir (ground coconut fiber) is signifcantly better than peat and is renewable, where peat isn't. It holds much more water without becoming water logged, so it maintains better soil oxygen. I don't care for Scott's, but so far, the MG Moisture control remains the best around here. Kim
That's OK, Kousa. I do the same thing. I think we all do.
Folks ask for a recommendation, and I race to suggest something I love -- forgetting that I live in a foggy niche along the Southern California coast. Our temperatures are so much gentler than those in most of SoCal.
I'm trying hard to train myself, tho -- to look at where folks are gardening, before jumping in. :-)
Years ago, tho, some friends who were "bigtime" rose exhibitors heard about one of these baking soda/dish detergent "recipes." They sprayed EVERYTHING with it, and lost their entire spring flush. Boy! Was that guy TICKED! So, we do have to consider location, when adopting new ideas. (He should have sprayed ONE bush!)
Jeri
Hi Steve,
It's an "ICEBERG ROSE".
Iceberg is a modern cluster-flowered floribunda rose cultivar. The cultivar is commercially available in two main forms. These are as a tall bush and a standard rose produced by grafting.
Leaves are light green and glossy. Blooms are about 5 cm in diameter and have 25 to 35 petals. Buds are long and pointed. The fragrant flowers usually appear throughout the year.
This post was edited by shrey.jagma on Tue, Oct 29, 13 at 1:35
Excellent idea, the way you overwinter them! I'm on Clear Lake west of Chelsea, how funny, I know your area, used to go to the Metro Beach boat show, loved it.
I used really good potting soil, and they are each in a pot that is ok for it's size, not too big, hopefully not too small. I will keep them from drying out and will get them where they aare just getting morning sun, thanks!
Not universally.
Here in my part of Southern California, half-day sun is fine. Even all-day dappled light. But it will be different in different areas.
One thing -- I think this is a rose that wants plenty of water -- moreso if it is in heat. And it should prefer acidic conditions over alkaline conditions.
Most of all, this is a BIG, BIG rose. It is going to need time to build an extensive rootball, sufficient to support the rose. I would not be at all surprised if it bloomed sparsely for the first few years.
As an example, our massive R. banksia lutea did not bloom at all for its first three years -- didn't grow a lot, either. It had been pickaxed out of a very old garden, and arrived as an ugly stump with minimal roots.
It did little until it had built the root system that it required. Then, it began to grow like crazy, and bloom generously.
Jeri
As Jeri said, the climate you're in does make a difference. Most roses will do OK with about 6 hours of sun light. Some will take more shade than that but most of them want as much sunlight as possible. But heat and sunlight are two very different things. If where you are can get baking hot than maybe a little shade would be beneficial. In my zone I rarely ever get that hot and even when it is that hot it's always extremely humid to go along with it. I also have a short season so I try to give mine as much full sun as I can.
Thanks for the personal reviews. It looks like Medallion will stay for now. In all fairness it's been slowly coming back from near oblivion due to cane borers. As Kitty said, retaining wood may be the secret. Her trellised plant must be quite a picture. However with no luck in your CA gardens both north and south, I very much doubt Antigua would fare very well up here folks. Too bad :(
As for your recommendations:
Maid of Honour - I tried years ago - very vigorous here too Beth, and of course the bloom is beautiful. If I recall I let her go because the apricot faded quickly. I lacked patience back then and maybe didn't give it enough time. Her parent Folklore is a beautiful monster in a neighbor's yard.
Beth, Kitty and kstrong have recommended Brandy who I've wondered about for some time. Glad to hear she's still got fans - I'll put her on my list.
Bunnicula - I'm trying Polka this year for the simple fact that it looks like Just Joey. While I'm very pleased with Polka there's been a JJ at the corner store with a huge fat bud just calling to me...
kstrong and Beth mentioned Marilyn Monroe - she gets points for health and long lasting blooms but I wonder if the green cast makes them appear "cold"? I've never seen her in person so will take your advice.
Charlesstpete you've hit on two I've tried before: Apricot Nectar and Charming Apricot (Charles Austin?). Apricot N. was another I may have judged prematurely. I yanked 3 out thinking they weren't double enough and faded too quickly in my garden. Like I said I didn't realize how much roses can improve with a few years under their belt. Charles Austin here was rangey and slow but the positive reviews have me rethinking both. I wonder could Charles supplant Breath of Life, who struggles for me.
(Apricot Vigorosa I'll read up on more, but the HMF photos show a smaller bloom than I'm looking for.)
Over the Moon - Oh My kstrong that's a nice one - and healthy too. It jumped right onto my list giving poor Lucille Ball a sharp elbow!
Thanks again all for your help. Your personal experiences are invaluable.
Ugh, I never could use blood (or feather, or bone) meal after witnessing how they are collected. No snark to people who do, I just don't want to use them. Yeah, they are by-products of the slaughtering, so they might as well be used, but..
Anyhoo, it's easy for me to get nitrogen from alfalfa, cottonseed meal or whatever.
Yeah, feed stores are a great resource for organic fertilizers.
Spinosad is effective on sawfly larvae...
Spinosad is toxic to bees when wet.
So, I spray right after the sun goes down so the spray has time to dry...
Remember all gardens are different. In some gardens rose slugs may only cause minor damage, some others moderate to severe damage. It depends.
Here some damage on our Dogwood bushes from Dogwood Sawfliy larvae... I do not worry to much about these bushes...lol
Ok this Heirloom Rose own-root band was planted by me
about 3.5 weeks ago.
I recently found rose slug damage and 2 mature sized rose slugs on it.
So that leads me to believe Rose Slugs can crawl up into a rose bush...
This post was edited by jim1961 on Tue, Aug 20, 13 at 8:29
Link is below but I found this short video on You Tube of a close-up of a rose slug eating a leaf...
Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Slug eating video
I quite like my Hope for Humanity, and being a Canadian explorer it should be a good choice for your zone. Mine is about 4-5 feet tall in zone 5 in its fourth year, without much dieback in my zone (and it's tucked into a zone 4 pocket in my yard). You're right that the ultimate height relates to how much you have to chop off from winter kill to some extent, but a well-established rose will grow by the end of the season to the height it wants to be if it's suited to your zone. In other words, even if you have to trim it to almost the ground in early spring, it'll shoot back up in the spring and summer if it's happy (and you don't cut it below the graft, obviously). Don't judge its ultimate height in the first few years as it's getting settled, since the plant is liable to spend more time putting down roots than building height at first.
I don't grow Blanc Double de Coubert, but if you know someone in your area that grows it, then that's a likely option for your yard. I had it at a previous house but it didn't like my alkaline soil and faded pretty quickly to rather scruffy used blooms that you have to deadhead frequently to keep the bush looking nice.
Peace is a lovely rose, but being a Hybrid Tea it's pretty unlikely to be hardy in zone 3-4 unless you grow it in a pot and bring it into a protected unheated space for the winter. I can get away with leaving my hybrid teas in the ground in zone 5, but much colder than me it isn't really a viable option unless you have a particularly hardy hybrid tea or a protected zone pocket with consistent snow cover. Always worth a try if you're a gambler, but that one's a long shot compared to the others (including Rambling Red) that are more sure bets in your zone.
Cynthia
Ah, thanks Cat, ill have to check that site out more. Hortco is another good one for mail order..
Nippstress - Thanks for the input.
My grandma has Coubert and the flowers react the same, even in good growing conditions. The bonus seems that it blooms so much at once when its large, you dont notice the fading blooms.
I knew getting a hybrid tea was a gamble, but at first glance when i looked it up, it seemed to be hardy to zone 5. After I got it and read up a bit more, its hardy to zone 6 apparently. The bonus is, I do happen to have it in one of the warmest microclimates in my yard, with the usual abundance and persistant snow in the winter. Its in the same area as my niagra grapes, and musa basjoo (first year for those, and the peace). You have any recommendations on hardier hybrid teas?
I was pleasantly surprised at the ramblin red. It is a one cane wonder this year, but still had a large flush of hybrid tea like roses. I want it to sprawl in my russian olive, plum trees and garage.
The bonus is that all my roses minus the hybrid tea seems to be on their own roots. They can die back all they need to, the odds are theyll come back.
You are also right about letting them settle. My grandma has a rose called "hero". The tag says 5 feet, well, the thing put out multiple 9 foot 2 inch thick canes straight up. Totally self supporting too. I hope it did the same after she moved it!