22,796 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
Hi Alex,
The reason why we buy grafted roses in florida is because of the root knot nematodes found in our sandy soils. These microscopic worms can wreak havoc on rose roots which they find irresistible. Roses on their own roots can and most likely will fall victim and die after a few years.
However roses grafted on to fortuniana root stalk have two advantages. One is that they don't attract nematodes and two is that this specific root system sends down what is known as a 'tap root' which makes it very drought tolerant. A tap root is basically a very long deep growing root that searches for water deep in the earth. Not all plants have this but it is a feature of many drought tolerant plants such as vincas, gauras, cosmos etc. This tap root does have a down side and that is that they don't transplant well. Once the tap root(s) are broken, which almost always happens when transplanting because of their length, the plant then has trouble taking in water and may die or take a long time to recover (essentially trying to grow another tap root to hydrate itself).
Roses on fortuniana therefor can tolerate our intensely hot climates with much greater ease although they may not transplant well.
Keep in mind however that this does not mean that you can't grow any roses on their own roots. Many old garden roses and tea roses (not to be mistaken for hybrid tea roses mind you) are nematode resistant and like our hot climate. Also nematodes don't like organic matter, they like sandy soil, so you may have success with own root roses planted in highly amended soil.
I grow all of my own root roses in containers. I feel I can baby them better this way but that's not to say they can't be well cared for in the ground. Here are a couple of great links that go more into detail about this. As well as a great blog on rose gardening in Fl.
http://miami-dade.ifas.ufl.edu/old/programs/urbanhort/publications/old-roses-for-south-florida.htm
http://miami-dade.ifas.ufl.edu/pdfs/urban_hort/roses-for-south-fl.PDF
http://sherryocala.blogspot.com/
Also, you can purchase roses on fortuniana at cool roses and k&m roses
Hey DSD2682 - Thank you so much for sharing information about growing roses south of Central Florida. Its hard to find an experienced rosarian for this far south. But I am curious as to the Fortuninia tap root. I have been under the impression that Fortuninia did not have a tap root and had a very shallow root system that spread out rather than a tap root. I have never found one on my grafted roses and I moved a lot of my fortuninia grafted roses around. I always thought that it was Dr. Huey had the tap root and tap root was a bad thing in our sand. Whata I know! James Mills seems to agree with you that Fortuninia has a tap root. Of course other professional disagree. I will have to pay more attention to my grafted rose when I dig them up to move them.-)
When you make reference to roses not lasting more than 6 years, are you talking about hybrid teas? I moved away for HTs about 15 years ago. Growing hybrid teas did not suit my garden style. For me the bushes themselves were just plain ugly, beautiful flowers, but even fully leafed out, still not attractive bushes. Oh and the codling of the plants, wew, I am glad I am not doing that any more. So my experience with HT is very out dated. I found that many OGRs are much easier for me to grow and many of my OGRs are well over 12 years old. They also mix well with my other garden plants. Of course every gardener is different. My style is cottage type garden.
I certainly agree that fortuninia is the only way to go unless your roses are in pots. Like you have my own root in pots.
Again thank you for your information on fortuninia rootstock.
Kraig
It's too hot for them (or most any rose) to have large flushes of large blooms. Deadhead and feed and you'll see a dramatic change in the fall. Most of my roses aren't even blooming right now, and the ones that are have smaller blooms. My BD has been blooming, but the blooms are a bit small.
Note, With BD, the first blooms in the spring are larger than you'd expect to see, enjoy them!
Thanks, everyone, for the responses. Like I said in the message, I'm in northeastern CT. I've just never had this problem with a rose before. I have roses planted in my front yard that are two feet apart, Graham Thomas, Bonica, Dr. Huey and Elsie May, and they all bloom beautifully. The knockouts are great as well.
When I first bought this rose, I started using Bayer after I saw the "burnt edges" look it had. I thought the Fairy was a pretty carefree rose.
First off, throw away the Bayer and other insecticides. Nothing needs that much "treatment."
Now, based on my The Fairy which did the same thing for several years, transplant it to a place where it gets more sun and has more elbow room. Then water it in very well and keep an eye on it for the next few weeks so that it does not dry out.
Now wait. While you are waiting, you might lightly trim off those flowering duds--just to make the whole thing look nicer. And spread some mulch around so that the Fairy will like its attractive new home.
When it flowers, enjoy it--and make sure it doesn't dry out.
No guarantees, but that is how I "cured" my Fairy after it drove me to frustration for several years. Worth a try anyway. : )
Kate
Also I think the best smelly red hybrid tea for coastal fog. An all-around winner, and one I recommend to folks often. Never mildews, which is unusual for any of the red hybrid teas.
Wish it were a brighter, truer red. That's really it's only drawback. Healthy bloomerific beast here in San Juan Capistrano.
This post was edited by kstrong on Sun, Aug 18, 13 at 17:42
Thank you so much! It does, in shape, etc., look like a category of roses Poulsen's website calls "Indoor Roses" - which is an oxymoron - Eewwww!
Anyway, you may be correct about the yellow/white bloom too - I just went out and looked at it carefully. The stem it is on goes back to the ground, and where it enters the soil there is a branching of it and 3 other stems, non of which have any blooms at the moment. The base of those stems is about 2 inches away from what looks like the base of the stems with the dark pink roses on them. I will keep an eye on them, and see what color they are when they bloom. I still may try and root the stem with the yellow/white rose on it - if it is a separate plant, it has always been way dominated by the other rose - it only has one or two yellow/white blooms a year. Thanks again for the info - very interesting.
Jackie
That's likely the cause. Some producers are even deliberately combining different colored minis in the same pot for the "mixed bouquet" effect. The Smart & Final here in Encino offered small pots of mixed red and white minis for Valentine's and Mother's Days. The varieties are selected for their ease of propagation and flowering well at very small sizes. To eliminate the time required to produce a bushy plant, multiple rooted cuttings are planted together so a full, flowering, "retail quality" product can be quickly pushed out the door. Very seldom are they considered for use once they are "mature", which is why many of them eventually produce three to five foot monsters with inch and a half flowers in the open ground. Kim
Actually found a web site with the information on this particular rose and it says zone 4 to 11. Brighter blooms says 5-10.... either way I'm in the clear.
Here is a link that might be useful: peach drift information
I've had the worst season of RRD this year since I've been growing roses in the mid 80's. I've already pitched 4 roses with it and 2 others have sprouted RRD canes which I've cut back to the crown trying to save them (if the RRD hasn't moved down to the roots). I've had luck with doing this before - about 20% of my roses being saved if I had caught the RRD in time. These last two roses I'm particularly fond of and don't want to loose which is why I'm chancing it..... Gotten more and more into daylilies as I've gotten older, and it's a good thing too. My rose days may be numbered. From one or two RRD roses every few years to this mess this year...Since Knock Outs started being planted in every gas station and rent house around here, there's more roses then ever to spread the mites that have the disease......Such a shame....... If it ever crosses the Rockies, I feel sorry for those in the mild climates along the coast.........Maryl
I regularly see KOs in commercial settings that have RRD. I would have to carry around a shovel with me to get rid of all of them. I too was able to save some roses by removing infected canes. Even my Ballerina, which was awfully affected and we thought we removed all the roots, came back and has been healthy so far.
I spoke to DA just this morning. The nice Customer Service Lady said that its a good rose for my climate (very similar to the Pacific Northwest). She said that its a heathy rose but not so hardy if I lived closer to the sea. (There's a couple very, very small mountains between the sea and my garden so I'm ok)
I also asked why its a lesser known variety. She answered a distinctive London accent, "it's just an older variety, we're not hiding it or anything. It's a lovely rose, beautiful cups with fewer petals so the rain doesn't affect them as much. It would do well for you in Donegal as long as your a bit inland from the coast."
I hope that helps. I'm not sure what your zone is.
M.
My Renae is always simi double in the spring and very double in the heat of summer, and once in awhile in the twenty some years that I have been growing it a thorn pops up to catch my attention.
I haven't been on this forum in years do to bad health. My garden has suffered greatly because of my health problems but now I am trying to rebuild it. I lost most of my roses during my illness but Renae is one that is still growing and blooming with no change. I just purchased Annie Laurie McDowell can't wait to see how she stacks up in my garden. Great week ahead of me, just picked up a large order of roses from Burlington Roses to start replacing those lost.
Thanks again for important information Jeri. I'm glad you alerted me of that growth habit. Would you say Altissimo might be a good substitute as a red pillar for Gloire des Rosomanes?
Your Setzer Noisette is lovely. Indeed I can't spot it in commerce anywhere, but it's one to keep in mind nevertheless. Perhaps I'll plan to have a central dual trained pillar between two single rose pillars since most of the varieties I'm captivated by seem a bit vigorous.
Jay
Jay, the only place I know that Setzer might show up is the Sacramento City Cemetery, because we donated it to the garden, but you might check with Burlington Rose Nursery.
Altissimo is a true Pillar climber, in that it goes straight up and fans out manageably. It was never happy in my garden, but a friend grew it in La Conchita. It grew all the way up her 2-story home. I have envied it for years. It's a good coastal rose.
But for myself, I like 'Fourth of July' more. Personal preference. (See below)
Jeri
I wish you could get your hands on Alissar, Kim - it is one of the most insanely remarkable roses I have ever grown. It starts with the new foliage - a bright crimson, the like of which I have never seen before....and even variagated with creamy patches. Then, the flowers themselves - a deep coral colour which does not fade but seems to intensify - like those ridiculously expensive echinaceas (which never return) a few years ago. A very upright rose, looks fabulous grown with grasses and tall verbenas and gauras...but not, I suspect, selling millions for Harkness. I love it.
Yep, NH, what a trooper - I gave mine away to my regret although Harkness will custom bud another if you ask nicely. I can ignore the worst of Euphrates cos it grows with some deep crimson (Chocolate Soldier) paeonies and looks terrific for 3 weeks at least.
I wish I could, too, Camp! I'd shared my Nigel with Ashdown who had it budded many years ago. When I worked at the nursery on the beach, I'd ordered in all the goodies I'd given them to sell and Nigel was one. In the desert, he flowered for a few weeks, then was over. Two blocks off the Pacific, that sucker flowered for over four months until the plants were all sold! It's in the same climate where Banksieas flower all summer because there is only about ten degrees difference between "winter" and "spring" with both seeming really like the type of weather you'd get in a really nice spring to summer. Real "heat" doesn't arrive there until August, lasting until late October and that's when the once flowering things that will survive there, cease their bloom. It was interesting, and nice, to be able to go to work and be greeted my him for sixteen weeks! I'd grow Nigel Hawthorne again in a heartbeat. Of all the early Harkness hybrids, he seemed to hold the most hope for something really good to come from his genes. Too bad he refused to "play nicely" with other roses. Kim