22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
"...there is life beyond KO :)"
But what if there wasn't? What if we all submitted to the marketing and agreed that Knockout is the only rose worth growing and is the most excellent easy care rose of all time? What if it had been invented 3,000 years ago and no one ever had to breed another rose?
-The houses of Lancaster and York could duke it out in the "Wars of the Knockouts."
-The perfume industry could use "Attar of Knockout."
-The Empress Josephine could have filled the gardens of Malmaison with Knockouts and impressed the French people with her prudent use of easy care landscaping.
-We could be watching the "Tournament of Knockouts" parade.
-The Beast would have to make Belle fall in love with him before the last petal of the magic Knockout rose fell . (He'd better hurry)
-We could enjoy the hit song, "I never promised you a Knockout garden."
The people who like Knockouts should enjoy them and buy them by all means. Aesthetically they're not my cup of Tea, but I've seen a few well-tended ones look very pretty (I think
Blushing Knockout is the prettiest.) They are not the best roses. Even the best rose wouldn't deserve so much gardening space. Variety is the spice of life after all.
This post was edited by amberroses on Sun, Jun 2, 13 at 16:59
Knowing my love of roses, my two teenage children bought me a pink double knockout, and planted it in a large pot last year for Mother's day. They were so proud to do this all on their own.For all the gorgeous/highly scented roses I have, this plain Jane/ common Knockout will forever be my favorite, nothing ugly about it!
Thanks everyone. I think I can get some loam from my brother. I have peat moss also . I'll dig a little of that in also, along with some composted manure. As far as watering my rose goes, we've had so much rain here that I've had to wait a few days to dig because of the mud. I most definitely won't use the stone mulch around my roses. Shredded cedar or pine mulch only. It's amazing how much improved the soil is after that is down for just a year.Well, my back and knees are hurting so I need to get out there and finish the job. Hopefully brother can bring the rest of the ingredients tomorrow and I can get her planted. She was supposed to be 4-5'x4' . At 1 year old she is now at least 7' x 6' and intruding on her neighbors.Thanks again,
deb
Thanks Anntn6b. I always check for drainage before putting a rose in. So far I've been lucky and only had 1 area of heavy yellow clay. I swear you could fashion a pot out it and have it fired and end up with a usable flower pot! This soil looks to be a bit more loamy than the back yard but I will certainly have a soil test done.
deb
Starting on page 67 some blackspot experiments are described.
Here is a link that might be useful: Vol.3 1918 American Rose Annual
This post was edited by henry_kuska on Sun, Jun 2, 13 at 21:50
In 1813, the only highly susceptible types were damasks and centifolias. (Bourbons just being disseminated, IIRC). Gallicas, albas, teas, and chinas are still generally resistant groups. So the worsening problem was due to a change in the population of rose plants. He cites a source claiming that centifolias are resistant, but that could be an error.
The author Wolf discovered the secondary life cycle of blackspot named Diplocarpon. This can form in dead leaves during winter and release airborne spores in spring. Wolf thought this was how BS overwinters. According to modern researchers such as Horst, he was wrong about that. This form of blackspot has only rarely been observed to sporulate. Horst says it doesn't play a significant role in infecting garden roses.
If the vendor says "own root", that is not grafted ("budded" is the correct term). The bare root vendors typically will say "grafted" or "own root". Most bare root vendors sell grafted on Dr. Huey, except the Canadians, who sell mostly grafted on R. multiflora, with a smattering of Manetti.
It is obvious when buying potted at the nursery: the grafted roses will have a large knot at the graft point, and the place where the Dr. Huey was cut off is usually visible. Most roses sold at local nurseries (including the big boxes) are grafted on Dr. Huey, save the Knock Outs (typically own root), and here the rugosas are sold own root.
See the photo comparing budded (grafted) vs. own root bare roots in the article linked below. Also, if buying locally, ask, they should know. If they don't know, move to another nursery.
Here is a link that might be useful: Bare-Root vs. Container Roses (Whatâs the Difference?)
This post was edited by diane_nj on Sat, Jun 1, 13 at 21:18
Thank you everyone for your replies. Diane_nj thank you for that link. The photo on there illustrating the 2 side by side really helps. Now I know when i go to buy an established rose what to look for. I've seen quite a lot of the grafted roses. Tomorrow I'm going to a local nursery and will be on the look out. In my zone we do get some harsh winters so it would explain why my rose bushes come back the following year looking nothing like what I had planted. I didn't know they were grafted so didn't plant deep enough and the grafted plant died off. I certainly don't need or want another dr. huey rose bush.
Tammy, you were probably the main lady who wanted cuttings from my Cl Happy, eh?! I'm so glad you posted about the dwarves, because my Happy is really happy this year, and he's ready for cuttings :)
Poor Happy didn't like being transplanted for a while there, but he's lovely now. He's a gorgeous red, y'all, and so pretty climbing!
Noacceptance,
If your miserable experience was your incentive to come here, it was worth every penny because it brought you to a place to learn, and ultimately maybe to laugh at the horrible memories as your future gorgeous garden blooms.
I'd go over there and make lots of noise and demand a refund.
Welcome!!
Here is a working link to what kousa posted.
Here is a link that might be useful: Chalker-Scott on gypsum
Michael & Kousa,
Already found it and pasted what I thought to be the most pertinent to my new garden:
"Gypsum can have negative effects on mycorrhizal inoculation of roots, which may account for several reports of negative effects of gypsum on tree seedling establishment and survival;"
The Dr. Earth Rose soil contains mycorrhizal which is the
primary reason I purchased it. I believe that 'm' is very
beneficial to new root health.
Thank you both so much for your answers....Since I already purchased the gypsum, but haven't received it, I am happy to know prior to using it that It's a 'no,no'.
Your answers also answer one of my earlier questions about applying and mixing in another layer of compost.
I have ready a lot recently about VERY heavy and non-draining clay soil. I have also decided that mine isn't quite as bad as I thought.
Thanks again....Off to pick up my new babies from Regan's in Fremont. They will be planted (without gypsum) next weekend.
Thanks so much again,
andrea
My BEST climber is 'White Cap'. Yes, the flowers are white, creamy white, but they are surrounded dark green, bulletproof-disease-resistant leaves. Fragrance, flower form, rebloom, etc., are superb.
I can recommend Teasing Georgia & James Galway (see pic). These were planted in April 2011 and look at them now. They are gorgeous. I counted the number of buds on one cane of TG - 19 soon-to-be flowers! This pic was taken last week & there are many more flowers now.
Another plus - they bloom until December, and come thru our NY winters like the champs they are. No winter dieback & all I do to protect them is throw some mulch around the base.