22,153 Garden Web Discussions | Roses
Starting on page 67 some blackspot experiments are described.
Here is a link that might be useful: Vol.3 1918 American Rose Annual
This post was edited by henry_kuska on Sun, Jun 2, 13 at 21:50
In 1813, the only highly susceptible types were damasks and centifolias. (Bourbons just being disseminated, IIRC). Gallicas, albas, teas, and chinas are still generally resistant groups. So the worsening problem was due to a change in the population of rose plants. He cites a source claiming that centifolias are resistant, but that could be an error.
The author Wolf discovered the secondary life cycle of blackspot named Diplocarpon. This can form in dead leaves during winter and release airborne spores in spring. Wolf thought this was how BS overwinters. According to modern researchers such as Horst, he was wrong about that. This form of blackspot has only rarely been observed to sporulate. Horst says it doesn't play a significant role in infecting garden roses.
If the vendor says "own root", that is not grafted ("budded" is the correct term). The bare root vendors typically will say "grafted" or "own root". Most bare root vendors sell grafted on Dr. Huey, except the Canadians, who sell mostly grafted on R. multiflora, with a smattering of Manetti.
It is obvious when buying potted at the nursery: the grafted roses will have a large knot at the graft point, and the place where the Dr. Huey was cut off is usually visible. Most roses sold at local nurseries (including the big boxes) are grafted on Dr. Huey, save the Knock Outs (typically own root), and here the rugosas are sold own root.
See the photo comparing budded (grafted) vs. own root bare roots in the article linked below. Also, if buying locally, ask, they should know. If they don't know, move to another nursery.
Here is a link that might be useful: Bare-Root vs. Container Roses (Whatâs the Difference?)
This post was edited by diane_nj on Sat, Jun 1, 13 at 21:18
Thank you everyone for your replies. Diane_nj thank you for that link. The photo on there illustrating the 2 side by side really helps. Now I know when i go to buy an established rose what to look for. I've seen quite a lot of the grafted roses. Tomorrow I'm going to a local nursery and will be on the look out. In my zone we do get some harsh winters so it would explain why my rose bushes come back the following year looking nothing like what I had planted. I didn't know they were grafted so didn't plant deep enough and the grafted plant died off. I certainly don't need or want another dr. huey rose bush.
Tammy, you were probably the main lady who wanted cuttings from my Cl Happy, eh?! I'm so glad you posted about the dwarves, because my Happy is really happy this year, and he's ready for cuttings :)
Poor Happy didn't like being transplanted for a while there, but he's lovely now. He's a gorgeous red, y'all, and so pretty climbing!
Noacceptance,
If your miserable experience was your incentive to come here, it was worth every penny because it brought you to a place to learn, and ultimately maybe to laugh at the horrible memories as your future gorgeous garden blooms.
I'd go over there and make lots of noise and demand a refund.
Welcome!!
Here is a working link to what kousa posted.
Here is a link that might be useful: Chalker-Scott on gypsum
Michael & Kousa,
Already found it and pasted what I thought to be the most pertinent to my new garden:
"Gypsum can have negative effects on mycorrhizal inoculation of roots, which may account for several reports of negative effects of gypsum on tree seedling establishment and survival;"
The Dr. Earth Rose soil contains mycorrhizal which is the
primary reason I purchased it. I believe that 'm' is very
beneficial to new root health.
Thank you both so much for your answers....Since I already purchased the gypsum, but haven't received it, I am happy to know prior to using it that It's a 'no,no'.
Your answers also answer one of my earlier questions about applying and mixing in another layer of compost.
I have ready a lot recently about VERY heavy and non-draining clay soil. I have also decided that mine isn't quite as bad as I thought.
Thanks again....Off to pick up my new babies from Regan's in Fremont. They will be planted (without gypsum) next weekend.
Thanks so much again,
andrea
Sorry for your loss, Kippy. You need one of these guys:
Pituophis catenifer catenifer, Pacific Gopher Snake
I planted that sad Abe and he started to grow, then both Abes came down yet again with such a massive case of rust, blackspot, powdery mildew, anthracnose, and downy mildew (all at the same time!) and so they are outta here. The Abe out front only has Rust, so he can stay, for now. Sigh.
Hoobv, I think I might pass on your little garden friend. Although I tend to have the "good luck" of finding those helpers by me. I also have a lot of gophers still here. This beast made it through my anti gopher wall by using the neighbors side of the zone. I would love to add to my wall...but that might mean digging under their garage. They are working to clean up that dump zone so hopefully the cats/hawks have better access to the gophers.
I am debating picking up their favorite super highway pavers and give it a new "road base" of kitty litter balls.
When it comes to climbers, I usually recommend Dublin Bay, a bright red that grows about 10 ft tall and has good disease resistance.
Several disease-resistant Austin climbers are The Pilgrim and Teasing Georgia (both yellow) and Wildeve and The Wedgewood (both light pink).
I have never grown Zepherine, but I remember posters on this forum complaining about BS problems with it.
Kate
Thanks for the suggestions! :)
Seil,
Great to hear about Julia. I'll look into those other yellows. I know I've seen walking on sunshine, but I was afraid if it was susceptible to disease. Although, after googling pictures, I really doubt i'll want any yellow other than Julia (if she doesn't fall to any disease...) so I might just make cuttings from her. I haven't heard much about sunny knockout, but it looks like one of those yellows that fades to white quickly.
dublinbay,
I now see why you have that name :) That's a very handsome climber, and a gorgeous shade of red to boot. I wasn't aware of any promising reds in my area. Only ones I knew of that doesn't fall to disease were KO's. I'm glad it's resistant and blooms repeatedly. I'm now on the lookout for one. I need something vertical on my fence anyways.
It certainly looks like good old Dr. Huey to me. His roots are like asparagus...they can lay dormant in the soil for YEARS until conditions improve. Then, he will explode into mildewy, rusty growth in most places. If you like him, by all means grow him. Otherwise, it's time for the Round Up. You know how long his roots laid there, waiting for you to water. Think you can actually dig them ALL out? hehehe Kim
First, have you sprayed it with ANYTHING other than hose water? If so, what, when and with what?
Second, have you fertilized it with ANYTHING in the past month? If so, what, when and how much?
Third, do you have gophers, moles or voles? Have you checked around the bases of the fried, dried out canes to make sure nothing has gnawed through the bark and cambium (circulatory system) layer, girdling them? If the cambium layer is severed all around the cane, the top will dry up like what you're seeing.
Have you had any construction work done which might have resulted in any paint, paint remover, solvents or cement bucket wash water being poured or dumped anywhere near that plant?
Have you had any excavation done anywhere near it? Such as digging out a sprinkler line or something like that?
The plant looks to me as if it has saw fly larvae, which accounts for the little holes in the foliage. The dried out foliage and canes look like what you should expect either from being fried during an extreme heat spell with insufficient water. Or, the roots have been severed either by a shovel, or being eaten off by gophers or voles, or severely loosened by a lot of mole activity. Or, something has eaten the bark and cambium around them toward their bases. We get that issue in winter here from mice eating pittosporums that way, causing huge dead spots in their canopies.
Or, the plant has been chemically burned, either by something being dumped in the soil near enough to it to kill the roots. Or, it has been fried by being sprayed with something it didn't like. Or, salty fertilizer has been thrown against the bottoms of the canes at their bases. A clump of granular fertilizer resting against the cane can draw all the water out of it, replacing it with salt. If too much fertilizer has been applied in its root zone, it will draw water out of the plant, replacing it with salts which "burn" the plant. That can look just like what you have in the photo. Or, if fertilizer was applied to it when it was too dry, then watered in, the plant could be desiccated as you've shown. Fertilizers should be used on well watered plants, then watered in. Never on dry plants then watered in. That results in your watering the plant with salty water and will very likely burn them, like what yours looks like in the photos.
As you can see, there are a number of issues it COULD be. Only you can supply the information necessary to help determine what the issue might be. Thanks. Kim
Yeah, I do foliar feeding as an extra measure in case the roots have any problems taking up nutrients. That's one big reason I started, and then I heard that it might help BS.
I enjoy it, too :) I use fish emulsion and it smells like the beach, lol. Clearly it's not going to be enjoyable for everyone, because it does smell like dead fish!
I use a mix of fish+kelp bottled gunk, milk and water. The milk was originally added for BS control. I like the overall results very much, but I can't promise that it 'really' works for fungal problems.
I try to do it every two weeks. That stretches to about 3 weeks often on many of my roses. It reminds me of a day fishing at the beach, with the strong smell and the sun and heat :D :D
But, as Kim said -- Very much reduced strength, if you feed.
More is not better.
Too much can kill a rose in this sort of delicate condition.
Jeri
The thread title is like a headline in the Onion--"Local Man Ogles Woman" or "New Yorkers Dissatisfied with Weather."