21,400 Garden Web Discussions | Roses

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mariannese

I deeply sympathize but after gardening for 20 years in my present garden I am getting more thickskinned. I give a rose at least 4 years (I live in Sweden where the climate is harsh), often much more. But I have started culling non-performers and roses I don't much like sooner now. I still have enough space for roses but I am beginning to want other plants, too, more ornamental trees and shrubs, evergreens and large perennials. I hang on longest to roses from friends, it feels like a betrayal to get rid of them, however bad the plants. This New Dawn, an old clone, promises to be a keeper though. I got it and the little white rose in the background (a foundling, may be La Neige) from a friend.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 1:02PM
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Brittie - La Porte, TX 9a

It depends on the rose and the reason I wants it gone for me. If the plant is marked for removal due to excessive disease and such, then I just compost it because I can't see heaving a bad plant onto other people. Especially considering that I don't have any experienced rose folk around to give them to. Others that are good plants, but I want to remove them just to have space for something else, usually end up sitting around so long that I forget why I wanted to get rid of it and it stays. I'm lazy like that. If I happen to actually dig the plant up, I almost always pot it up...where it sits forever till I find a new place for it. :)

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 2:49PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Some roses described as climbers are semi-shrubby with stiff, relatively upright canes. It is easier to bushify these types. Others make very long shoots that are nowhere near self-supporting.

To make a stand-up shrub, I let the new basal canes bloom out and then cut them back to 3-4 feet. The cane then produces 2 or 3 laterals that are cut back to a self-supporting length and then branch again. Every time I prune a lateral, I leave several bud sites to encourage branching. Once you get a lot of branches, the plant will produce fewer long basal canes.

The other option is to let it form a fountain shape as boncrow describes. Here you may need to allow for 10-12' width.

This post was edited by michaelg on Fri, Nov 21, 14 at 12:22

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 9:30AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

with the ten of thousands of roses available....

i would wonder why you would need to buy and try to make a climber ... into a bush ... other than for the sake of learning how to prune ..... you may come to truly understand the vigor of some of these climbers ...

sure.. anything can be pruned into whatever shape and form the pruner wants it to be.. think bonsai for the extreme ... pruning never killed anything ... itself ...

but i would step back... and try to find one.. that grows in the shape and form i wanted... rather than sign myself up for a lifetime of pruning ...

on the other hand .... i truly do understand.. that often.. you gotta have .... what you want ...

ken

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 12:32PM
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NeoRoseDelight(7)

Right now, I don't have a UV set-up, so I could do anything. How long do you think it needs to be above freezing to plant a rose? There is a warm spell coming up, and it's not supposed to get below freezing for about a week. Too risky?

    Bookmark   November 20, 2014 at 10:56PM
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cecily(7 VA)

Please wait until March or you'll worry yourself to death all winter over that rose. If it were bareroot (dormant) you could certainly plant it now but its awfully late in the season to plant a potted rose. The best solution IMHO is to schlep it outside during warm spells and keep it in the basement during Jan, Feb and especially cold spells in Dec & March. Mad Gallica is a very experienced cold zone gardener (she over winters all sorts of things in her basement including heirloom peppers) so take her advice regarding light set ups. I've been buying special fluorescent tubes for years and apparently I don't really need them LOL.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 6:52AM
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laura242424

^^ I have Compassion climbing rose and I was sure that was it! Never noticed that.

For sure my favorite are swirled cup-shaped roses like Eden rose.

From http://i-lostinausten.blogspot.com/2011/11/ma-vie-en-rose.html:

    Bookmark   November 20, 2014 at 9:16PM
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jjpeace (zone 5 US/zone 6 Can)

Bishop Darlington looks very interesting. Thanks for sharing JeriJen. I really like the informal non-fuss but relaxed look. I am beginning to realize that singles and semi-doubles give it a very relaxed feel compared to the highly formal hybrid teas.

Anna-Marie de Montravel has that spring fresh look and it would really nice at night too. I really like it. It would look good in front of a garden. I bet it would really shine under a summer moon sky. Thanks Linaria.

Thanks Sara-Ann for Tiffanny. I have seen this rose many times but never had the chance to buy one. I like this shade of pink in roses. It doesn't scream at you..lol.

I agree with you Laura, which is why I bought mine this past spring. I only saw it flower once though but it was really nice. I am crossing my finger that it doesn't die under this snow. I am thinking of getting the red eden if it is available in my area.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2014 at 10:39PM
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meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation

I had to cut a big shrub ownroot rose (Pierre Gagnaire) way back and then move it in temps like that last year. It took forever to bud out, but the canes were green. He just sat there, green, for at least a couple of months, well into warm weather. It was the weirdest thing, but I knew I didn't get a big rootball compared to his original size.

Anyway, he did great. He put out one or two new basals along with leafing out. He didn't get especially tall yet, but I'm sure he'll grow up great again.

I treated him like I would any transplanted rose while he was doing nothing. So he got normal water, etc. I felt like giving up on him, but I'm so glad I didn't!

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 6:06PM
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Glove-Up

ok well just sit tight for now and see what happens but they do make the garden look look a little sad it spots. Thanks for all your comments and will let you all know how they go. cheers

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 6:15PM
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roseseek

That would be a very interesting piece of information to find out about, Lynette. Remember, it was Hortico who "introduced" so many of his earlier roses in to North America, prior to obtaining any licensing from him and selling them to the US. That is why all those varieties were sold under their breeder's code names, such as AUSpat, AUStamora, etc. Once they've been introduced, there is a finite time in which to patent them and recoup any costs through royalties. Hortico jumped ahead of him by selling them so the only way he could benefit from their sales was to trademark their names so a retailer would have to pay to use those names. The roses could be sold under any other name you wanted, without paying any royalties, but if you used the trademarked names, you owed Austin royalties. I heard stories some years ago about a very "heated" face-to-face Mr. Austin reportedly had with the head of Hortico about that very subject. It would be QUITE interesting to know the back story whether Hortico's decision not to offer the newer types had anything to do with that issue, or if they simply chose not to offer the more expensive types as Pickering and others have. Kim

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 3:17PM
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lynnette

Yes old Hortico did get thrashed by Austin but that wouldn't slow them down. I suspect ( but do not know) that they may be budding Austins when they get them from other nurseries. The father (Jan) carried roses because he loved them and had many types, plus the unusual. I must be more appreciative of that fact. My garden had many of the tried and true from Europe and Denmark. Now that he has allowed his two sons to take over management, they seem to be culling many of the shrub type roses and just having the hybrid teas and those that do best in colder climates. Probably a good decision business wise. This year I placed a large order and it still feels like one is dealing with the three stooges. Very disorganized and confused. I know the rose business is dying so I am trying to send as much good budwood to Palatine or if Pickering opens again, to them also. But again with Pickering, it was the fathers love of roses, not his sons.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 4:56PM
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jacqueline9CA

A few of the old tea roses in our garden were planted by my DH's great grandfather & grandfather. I know of 3 huge ones that lived approx 100 years.

Jackie

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 10:26AM
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tuderte(USDA 9a equiv.)

My brother now lives in the house where we grew up. Our mother planted her roses in the late 1950s early 60's. Of the roses she planted (all of which would have been grafted), Oklahoma and Super Star plus one whose name I don't remember, are still growing well and flowering prolifically every year - so that's at least 55+ years - and these roses are basically left to their own devices.

Tricia

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 4:29PM
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Molineux(6b)

For growth habit, remontancy (repeat bloom) and fragrance GOLDEN CELEBRATION is hard to beat. There is a gracefulness to the shrub that works wonderfully in cottage gardens and the very strong fruity fragrance is the best that I've smelled on any yellow rose to date. All that being said to be grown successfully here in black spot hell it must be sprayed with a fungicide - and not just once in a while but consistently every week or else.

Which is why I settled for GRAHAM THOMAS. I not only like the color better (GC's golden yellow color is very deep and lacks the luminescent quality that you get with GT) but the foliage can get by with my erratic spraying. I'm growing him own root as a short climber and have been very pleased with his performance. Decent repeat bloom too, not as prolific as GC, Julia Child or Molineux but there is usually at least one or two blooms on the plant at all times after the profuse spring flush. I can see why this rose is considered a classic.

Neither rose is particularly thorny, which is something that I appreciate.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 3:48PM
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tuderte(USDA 9a equiv.)

I don't have Graham Thomas but I do have two Golden Celebration - one is grafted, the other own root. The grafted rose was planted in May 2012 and the own root 12 months later, so they're both relatively young.

The first year I had no black spot whatsoever, however this past Summer was very humid (normally our Summers are very hot and dry) and both plants suffered terribly with BS. So did every other rose in my garden apart from one rugosa. That said, GC continued to bloom prolifically and the perfume is really wonderful.

I don't know that my experience in Zone 9 (b) equiv. will be of much use, but I just thought I'd let you know my experience.

Cheers
Tricia

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 4:14PM
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jacqueline9CA

Thanks, Henry. I did not know they had identified it that early.

Jackie

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 10:23AM
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ausblm

Hi im interested why there has been little mention of regular copper spray? Im amateur but find that its effective as part of my approach when used regularly especially spring summer. Pine or Eucalyptus mulch suppresses spores on the ground.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2014 at 11:15AM
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jjpeace (zone 5 US/zone 6 Can)

Well, an acquaintance of mine who also works for a public garden up here had adviced me to use dormant oil in the spring. I will try it this upcoming spring to see if that works.

I was thinking that in the upcoming Spring, I may cut the bottom leaves off from each plant. I figure if there is no leaves at the bottom to get wet, it may reduce down BS. Well in theory anyways.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2014 at 12:08AM
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seil zone 6b MI

I don't know enough about the science behind any of this to say which of you might be right. I do know that psychologically I feel better when I put down some kind of protection, lol!

    Bookmark   November 18, 2014 at 12:03PM
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jjpeace (zone 5 US/zone 6 Can)

I feel bad reading this post because I did not winterize my roses at all and I live in Canada, the Great white North. We had our first snowfall yesterday here in Toronto.

Well, I believe that if a rose can't survive our winter than they are not worth keeping.

I agree with Seil for not bringing roses indoor as they are not houseplants. Well the exception is mini roses.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2014 at 11:36PM
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poorbutroserich(Nashville 7a)

Ok. Doggone it. I am just going to stop worrying this year. Everything is a reasonable size and well protected and damn the torpedoes. I have only a few that are truly irreplaceable.
Susan

    Bookmark   November 18, 2014 at 5:53PM
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seil zone 6b MI

If you want just protect those irreplaceable ones and leave the rest. That should cut down on the work. The problem is we really have little control over it anyway. It's up to Mother Nature what kind of winter she wants to throw at us this year.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2014 at 6:06PM
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dove_song(WA State Z6b)

Thanks, Pattyw5!!! I love Northland Rosarium's roses and I LOVE visiting their wonderful garden. It's in the same town that I live in, but it is in a much more rural area than mine. Great folks there!!! :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Northland Rosarium

    Bookmark   November 18, 2014 at 11:05AM
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dove_song(WA State Z6b)

It's easier to see all of the Classes of roses they carry by this link. :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Northland Rosarium Roses by Class

    Bookmark   November 18, 2014 at 3:01PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Eureka ... There WAS an active Las Vegas Rose Society .. Some of it may remain. Try the American Rose SocIety Website.

Also, look to Rose groups in Southern AZ and other desert areas.

Start to build a list of GOOD roses, and recommended rose culture techniques for desert conditions.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2014 at 11:35PM
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mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

Where I live in CA, the temps in the summer are about as hot as Vegas and this last summer Vegas was often cooler then we were! When I started rose gardening, I read the book, Roses in a Desert Garden. It was very helpful for me when growing my own roses. Might want to see if your local library has a copy you could read. We are also under water restrictions so that adds fuel to the fire when trying to grow roses.

I learned that a lot of roses need afternoon shade when it gets to be 105-117 degrees. I prefer to grow roses on their own root as I have to muIch very heavily due to heat and water restrictions (we can only water twice a week during the summer and not at all during the winter). Some of my older roses not on their own roots have started reverting back to root stock, so those are coming out this year with some not so great performers in the heat.

Best of luck to you on this challenge. The people you serve will be better off with your knowledge.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2014 at 8:39AM
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roseseek

Thanks, Kippy, but please go ahead and bid on it. I NEED another rose like I NEED fleas. You will enjoy it and probably propagate it. Besides, you NEED it! LOL! Thanks. Kim

    Bookmark   November 14, 2014 at 11:32PM
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mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

I love Ralph Moore roses. I had Sweet Chariot at one time as a standard but don't anymore. Wasn't one of my favorites as the flowers shattered easily but it was a pretty little rose. Good bloomer for me.

My favorite is probably Lavender Crystal. What a little beauty! I had her as a standard and then when I pruned her, stuck a twig in the ground and it grew. The "stem" for the standard was not doing well, so I now just have her on her own root. I love her flowers and she is pretty much always in bloom for me. Gets to be about two to three feet tall and about 2 feet wide or so. Large flowers for a mini.

I also have a bi-colored rose that I don't know the name of from him. Nice mini. The color is almost a burnt pink on the edges that fades into a lighter color on the same petal. Interesting coloring. It is a strange color and I may have to move it this year as I don't think it gets enough water where it is located. Not sure I would get this one again but I got it for the strange coloration on the petals.

I have Sequoia; a nice yellow mini as well.

I have, I think, a Pink Powderpuff. It is a huge climber with wonderful full pink flowers. Very tall (probably about 10-12 feet or so. I wish it bloomed more but I do love the rose. Stands up to our heat. Mean thorns on this one.

Then I also have the rose that he bred Diamond Anniversary. It is a beautiful little mini. Took a while to get it as he was constantly out of it but sent one to my folks (for their 65th wedding anniversary even though this one is named after the 60th wedding anniversary). A very nice mini.

I also have the Birthday Cake rose. Interesting colors on this one. It has taken a while to get into a bush shape (I bought it as a small, barely rooted twig on its own root and have only had it for two years--if that). It is still quite small but I expect it to start leaping this coming spring.

I love and miss Ralph. I wish I had room for more of his roses.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2014 at 8:26AM
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