6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed
An easy and cheap way to improve growing conditions when working in a less that ideal area - like a cool damp basement for example - is to build a small tent out of rolled plastic around the shelf set or table you are using. That way you can easily control the environment - temps,lights, moisture levels, air circulation, etc. in that small enclosed area rather than trying to control for the whole area.
Some make their tent out of those thin foil survival blankets they sell in a packet in camping goods section at Walmart and such. That way you can also increase the reflective light.
Dave
If you look around there has been research on using spices to prevent and treat damping off. In most of what I've read chamomile isn't as effective as others such as cinnamon. Here's one http://www.plantprotection.pl/PDF/47(3)/JPPR_47(3)_05_El-Mougy_2.pdf
OP, I also know that damping off diseases can be prevented. But the moisture level is only part of the solution. If we chose a coarser, faster draining medium, then problems may never arise. Most of the germination mixes that I've seen are just awful.
Prepare the dry medium by pouring what you will need in a larger container and adding a small amount of water. After a thorough stirring, add a little more water and stir again. Never get it so wet that it drips.....it should feel barely moist.
Fill your germination flats or containers with the mix and now you can drench it. Allow the water to tamp down the mix not your fingers, drain/evaporate for several hours or overnight.
Sow the seed, sprinkling with a dusting of the dry mix if dark is needed for germination. Then, mist to seat the seed into the mix. You should never have to use your fingers to poke and prod, which compresses the medium, eliminating the oxygen.
I agree that chamomile can be steeped as a tea and misted onto the surface. If you did desire to use it as a drench, simply use it when you would ordinarily water your seedlings, not in addition. Buy a box of tea bags!
The antifungal and antibiotic properties of cinnamon have long been known.........so long that it's been forgotten and needs to be rediscovered.
I would stress that with a careful eye on your watering practices, a thoughtful selection of a germination mix, a smart choice of containers, good air circulation, and coolish temperatures, you shouldn't need to worry about cinnamon or chamomile at all.
-10 is too cold for this Mediterranean native. Keep them inside until it is at least +5 ish consistently. Make sure you harden them off before you put them outside. In the meantime keep them as cool as indoors allows. Do you have something like a glass porch or unheated room?
Well jeez. Of course plants take up water with their roots, Mother Nature doesn't grow in containers, and we have drip trays! What I was getting at is....in their native environment, plants are exposed to water from above ALL THE TIME. Top watering doesn't kill plants, we humans do :)
Good info from Trev - another transplanting is needed for those plants as they are very likely already getting root bound in those cells. And based on the info you posted about dates it would at least another month from now before you could safely transplants the tomatoes and another 6 weeks for the peppers - depending on the weather of course.
Otherwise they are looking good - just crowded.
Dave
Thank you for the feedback. I have never had seedlings this healthy before so this is a whole new learning curve for me lol. So I will likely pot up again either tomorrow or by mid week next week. Do you think Solo cups would be large enough to sustain them until transplant time or do I need to get something a little larger? I am trying to get them less crowded, work in progress :)
Also, I have a cold frame built. It is made of wood and has a glass screen door as the top. Is this something that could be reasonably used for my tomatoes to be placed in say about March 30 until I can transplant them into the garden? The only other time I used the cold frame was in 2012 when I had large seedlings, but that was an expectionally warm year for us and frost just wasn't a concern that year (just the hailstorms...). BTW, I would only put them in the cold frame once they have been hardened off adequately.
If this is not a good option, I can still keep them inside but the hours of lighting would probably have to be reduced to about 8-9 hours a day instead of 12 because I would have more flats to rotate under my lights. I only have 2 light sets that are 4' long, but placed together to be wide enough to cover the whole flat. I've never had this problem, which is why I don't have more lights. That will be something I invest in next year though lol.
About my planting dates: those were frost dates I was able to find. I did notice I planted my tomatoes on April 26 last year though. According to the NC planting guide issued by the NC agriculture people they say tomatoes and peppers can be planted between 4/15-5/10 in eastern NC which is where I live. The only problem with that is I know it covers a large area with greatly varying frost dates. So I am thinking now to plant my tomatoes after 4/20 and peppers after 5/1. I think just for fun though I am going to pick 2-4 varieties I don't mind possibly losing and plant them out in the garden by 4/1 just to see what happens. I don't mind experimenting a little :)
Once again, thank you for your advice and recommendations! I truly appreciate it.
Dawn - zone 7B or 8 not sure, in eastern NC
First, I wouldn't buy that mat. It is way over-priced and especially so for one that requires an additional thermostat for control. Second, yes you likely could accomplish the same thing as long as you have the time to closely monitor the soil temps and adjust accordingly. However that would require VERY close monitoring as the temps can rise into seed-killing zones within minutes, not hours, as the mat is responding to ambient air temps not soil temps.
Cool ambient air and the mat just keeps sending more and more heat into the soil as it tries to warm the surrounding air. And in warm ambient air conditions the mat just sits there doing nothing so the soil temps can fall into stopping germination zones just as quickly.
For those reasons a thermostat control is a great benefit to both you and the plants. Honestly, it can make all the difference in seed survival, germination rates, and germination times.
But there are much less expensive options available, some with built-in thermostats and some with much cheaper thermostats. Soil heating cables with a built in therm (auto set at 72) lightly tacked to a piece of foam or wood with the trays set on top of it can be had in many lengths for approx. $35-40 and last for years. Hydrofarm and Gro-Mat make several sizes of mats all of which can be very well controlled with a $30 thermostat. We use several of the Gro-Mats in the greenhouses https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/gro-mat/heat-mats-chambers
all of them controlled by this thermostat https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/thermostat-for-seedling-mat/heat-mats-chambers
and have for years with no issues. Using these has the advantage over the heating cables of being able to set higher temps for peppers and such.
Dave
Hi Trev,
I agree with what Dave said about the apparent over-pricing. There is one thing however that you probably need to understand better. The thermostat you referred to does not require 750 watts to operate :-) A thermostat is basically just an automatic switch that requires little or no wattage. The 750 watts, mentioned in the ad, means that the thermostat can safely control external devices that use up to 750 watts. The mat you referred to uses only 150 watts.
Hope this is helpful,
Art
My sowed pots are set under lights immediately (unless the seeds need darkness). I don't use domes, but plastic wrap my 4" containers. When I see germination, I may wait a day or two to get more plants up, but that is about as long as I wait. I have never had an issue with damping off doing it in this way. BUT, I also only water once after sowing the seeds and putting the plastic on, and the seedlings won't see water for some time!
You are right Dave pros don't use the plastic humidity lids. I've watched them at my favorite greenhouse. They either put them on a conveyer belt under a mister or they put them in a propagating chamber. Since we home gardeners have neither of those machines we use the plastic domes to retain the moisture needed for plants to germinate.
I find I get better germination with the lids. I leave my humidity lids on until most have germinated. It is only a day or 2 from the first sprout until most of them sprout. An extra day or 2 is not going to promote damp off if you don't make your soil too wet to begin with. This works for me but there are as many ways of doing things as there are gardeners so experiment and find the way that works best for you.
Sorry but once legginess develops it doesn't go away. The thin stretched stems remain. The only way to compensate for them once they develop is to transplant the plant deeply into a deeper container and bury all of the leggy exposed stem. This doesn't work for all plants but will help most. And the "fix" only works when adequate light is then provided.
Dave
Thanks Dave - you're absolutely correct - that's why I go by the temperature of the probe I have placed in the soil, not by the ambient temperature. That really gets at the heart of my question, too - I'm looking for something to keep my seedlings warm because they sit in a flood table and I can't keep seed mats directly beneath them.
The reason I have them in a flood table is so I can timer-water them, as I travel for work all week, every week. I also find more benefit and convenience to bottom-watering for sensitive herbs like oregano.
In my mind, that leaves me with two options - heat the air enough to heat the soil, or find some waterproof sort of heat mat that can keep the soil heated in a flood table. My tent contains both a thermostat for measuring the ambient air temperature and a soil probe with a thermostat on it, so I can always tell the temperature of each.
I'm hoping that the creative minds of this forum may have some ideas that might help.
I have (aquarium) thermometers at soil surface. Seeds are only lightly covered with soil. I keep lights on all 24 hrs. During germination I kept domes on the seed trays which were standing on a 1 inch thick plywood shelf, one shelf above the other with the lower light warming the shelf above. It worked great over the last 4 years.
Appreciate the welcome. I will probably just continue to buy the starter tomato plants then. Do you know what I can spray pests with? I don't like using chemicals. I may as well buy my veggies from the store if I'm gonna do that.
Thanks morz for letting me know that. Haven't talked to Trudi lately so didn't know things have changed.
Sunny - not sure what I said that changed your mind but the choice is yours. If tomatoes is all you are interested in then there are some good tomato varieties available as transplants, both hybrid and heirloom. You just have to live with the limited selection available.
Spraying for pests is a whole different issue and best discussed on the relevant forums. For tomatoes that would be the Growing Tomatoes forum. For other plants, the Vegetable Gardening forum here.
Pests are very plant specific so no such thing exists that covers all things. Nor should it. Since the vast majority of bugs in a garden are beneficial insects, broad-spectrum pesticides kill far more beneficial insects than bad guys. So the first rule of effective pest control is first you ID the exact pest problem and then you use the least toxic control developed for that specific pest.
Rather than using the term "chemicals" which is far too broad a label since many of the organic controls are also chemicals, indicate your preference for organic controls rather than synthetic or man-made controls.
The Organic Gardening forum here has lots of info on this point.
Dave