6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed
Agree with Al above that 57 is a little low especially as an average meaning it will spend lots of time lower than 57. A consistent air temp of 60-65 is considered the ideal post germination.
But the light provided is far more important at the seedling stage so the plants will tolerate lower air temps in order to get extra light.
So focus on the best way to provide them with lots of light once they germinate. EX: If you set up your shelves in the basement and hang several lights on them and then enclose the shelf set-up in a plastic tent of some sort - create a small enclosed area of sorts - the trapped heat from the lights (even fluorescent) will keep the area inside the tent much warmer than the rest of the basement. Include a thermometer within the tent so you can monitor the temps inside. You'll find you'll have to vent the tent from time to time as it may get TOO warm.
Dave
Hi everyone,I have been starting plants from seed for 45+ years.If there is an inexpensive way to do something I do it.Dave touched on something important. Use small found containers that food comes in.I can start my main crop of tomatoes in a short cottage cheese container.Cream cheese or dip containers are great for pelleted petunias.I put my regular growing on soil in & cover with a thin layer of the starter.Dampen well with turkey baster & sow seeds like tomatoes carefully with dampened toothpick.Same for pellets.Seedlings do not languish with this method like they do in a soiless mix. This method is covered in Peter Thompson's book CREATIVE PROPAGATION.I have done this before I got his book.If one isn't careful you can spend more on supplies than it would cost to buy the plants.
As has been pointed out,here,there are many ways to do all this.Many different mediums,etc. I use a lot of Miracle Grow because I laid in a supply on sale.
Good luck
rose AKA Doris zone 5
Thank you everyone for the awesome comments! I'll try them all out. I've been using water and milk jugs that I saved for winter sowing but never got cold enough here. All of my seeds are outside and doing great so far,almost time to tranplant my tomatoes into bigger pots. I've only had to bring them in once. Good luck this season and may you all have bountiful gardens this year!
Dave certainly gave good information, even guessing they may be in containers. Container mixes should be considered without nutrients unless specified. Most plants use nutrients in a ratio of 3-1-2, and if fed excessive amounts of phosphorus in an attempt to force blooming it is not used by the plant and is a waste. A soil test of my garden soil indicated both P and K at four times the recommended amount. When I questioned the lab, I was told such was not at all unusual for my area. For most plants to bloom well, especially poppies, the amount of sun they receive is more important than the amount of fertilizer. Al
I think most of use maintaining compost piles have witnessed seed germination in the piles. Hot compost piles, over 150 degrees, maintained for a day or more, will kill MOST seeds. A cold compost pile will make a very good site for seed germination. Al
Inside or outside?
Sure seeds will germinate in a compost pile outside - it is a wonderful natural world in the pile outside. Large seeds tolerate it well, small seeds not so well but you can still get a 50-60% germination rate.
But if you are talking about using compost indoors in small containers for germinating seeds rather than using a sterile soil-less mix, then no.
The odds of successful germination and survival in the artificial indoor environment are very low. Compost compacts and drains slowly plus indoor air temps encourage the proliferation of all the bacteria and fungi naturally in the compost - not something small young seedlings can survive. Damp-off is very common with the seedlings if they do germinate.
Dave
I just now read that you should lightly put dry mix in cups and then water it
That only applies to certain types of mixes - those that contain a wetting agent - and even then you d not have to do it that way. Most mixes do not contain wetting agents so dry mix in containers is NOT generally recommended. You have to read the ingredients in your mix to see if it lists wetting agents.
And like Lynn said, no you do not pack it tight. Grab a handful of the wet mix and wring it out in your fist. Then put it in the container and just use your fingers to lightly level it out in the container.
Dave
Wow, what a clever idea! I might have (someday) thought of using the Dremel tool, but holding the seeds in place with duct tape would never have entered my mind :-) Fortunately, I do have a Dremel tool (and the cut-off disks) but for folks that do not, I think the duct tape idea would still be very helpful. Regardless of what tool is used, the tape would sure save a lot of fingers!
Thanks very much for sharing that idea!
Art
Young seedlings at that stage don't need supplements and may be harmed so it isn't generally recommended. It all depends on the nutrient levels in your particular product (kelp extracts come with all sorts of varying nutrient levels), how well you dilute it, the potting mix you are using and its water retention capabilities. In other words, there is no simple answer given all the variables.
Once they have 2 sets of true leaves a VERY diluted (1/8-1/4 strength) supplement may be of assistance but how much again depends on the nutrient levels in the supplement you are using. N stimulates top growth which, without care, can quickly out-strip the root growth needed to support it. With seedlings it is root development that is vital, not top growth.
Hope this helps.
Dave
So many variables in the growing conditions that it's really hard to say how long from seed to bloom.
Clarkia is normally direct sown after last frost. Damp-off is so common with it that growing it inside is impossible IME and I have tried it several times. Sow on the surface and do not cover; needs light.
Same with Wishbone. Direct seed, uncovered. It "can" be done inside but the germination rate isn't as good IME. Just lightly press it into the soil surface and start it 4-6 weeks before plant out.
If you have any experience with Winter Sowing techniques they work well for both Wishbone and Clarkia.
Hope this helps.
Dave
Thanks -Looks like I should try starting the Mimulus soon. I did do a little more internet searching on these this morning, but sowing to bloom time is hard to find. I suppose that there are many variables, but in my short WI growing season, I didnt want to wait and sow in May if it means I wont get blooms before frost in October.
My winter sowing experience hasnt been great, partially due to our late springs.
I am trying something new with a few different seed types right now. They are sown and in the garage frozen solid (-5 for the high yesterday) but I plan on bringing them inside in a couple of weeks and placing them on the cold concrete floor to finish germinating, then will put them under lights when they sprout. If they are successful I may try some of the clarkia and wishbone that way and save the rest for direct sowing.
Thanks again.
My sedums are enormously popular with insect pollinators of all kinds. But, in my experience, Agastache is phenomenal at attracting insect pollinators as well as birds, after the seeds have set. I call my Agastache " beesicles". They'll be covered with honeybees when in bloom.
So the answer here is to grow native plants to your area. Most places don't label if things are bee friendly but do label native plants. Native plants are something that you might come across on a hike through the wilderness in your area.
And when it comes to hybrids rest assured pollinators will go to them as well. The difference is that native plants typically are plants you can find right in the wild. What makes them successful as plants is that they are attractive to pollinators, because without pollinators the plants wouldn't reproduce.
Now most hybrids, and really anything that has been bred by humans, we've taken pollinators out of the equation because we breed them and pollinate them ourselves to get seed. We also select plants to continue breeding based on appearance or disease resistance and rarely, if ever, based on if pollinators go to them.
If you are worried about your beehives look up your local apiarists and ask them what they plant. I know a handful of people that raise bees they really don't do anything in terms of plants because the bees travel far and wide, they'll find what they are looking for without your help. That being said there are wildflower mixes that are for bees. I also know that the beekeepers I know have 50lb bags of sugar to mix with water and feed the bees.
Verbena can be tricky thanks to the hard seed coat. Stratify it first for best results.
But IME it is more about the moisture level and soil temp than covering or not, light or not. I prefer to very lightly cover the seeds with a thin layer of very fine vermiculite (perlite works but you need to grind it fine first). That helps stabilize the moisture level around the seed until it breaks the seed coat.
Dave
They are the nodules of what are called adventitious roots and normal. An indication that the root is looking for air.
But it is past time to get that planted into some potting mix ASAP so some feeder roots will develop. They won't grow in water.
See the FAQ here titled How to grow and avocado from seed. Click blue FAQ button top of the forum page.
Dave
I used to root my avocado seeds in water, but eventually just started sticking them about 3/4ths their length into the dirt with my houseplants. After that, the only care they get is the same care I give my houseplants...normal water, normal food, etc. In time, they sprout and grow of their own accord, and I find the plants to be much stronger and healthier than those I've sprouted in water.
I planted almost every seed from the avocados we ate last year and almost every one of them came up. I lost maybe four or five to my chickens, and approximately seven or eight to winter kill, but I only have limited room to overwinter my plants in my house, so I chose the two best looking plants to bring inside. Btw, all the plants survived quite well down to about 40 degrees on a regular basis, but hard frosts killed the exposed ones in my yard and the THIRD hard freeze finally got the one on the porch.
This gives me hope I can successfully overwinter these plants on an enclosed, barely heated porch in the future and not have to bring them into the house, as I'm pretty sure they'll do quite well if I can keep the room somewhere in the range of 40 to 45 degrees during the coldest months of the year here, which are generally January and February.
Currently, one of the plants has been growing for a little over a year now, and I've actively worked to dwarf it, so I can keep it in as small a container as possible for as long as possible. It stands a little over two feet tall right now and is putting out a new flush of leaves at the top. I noticed last summer that it had formed a ball-shaped leaf crown that was quite pretty.
The growth slowed when I brought it back inside for the winter and I stopped watering until I saw the leaves begin to severely droop, then I started watering again on a limited basis. Shortly after I resumed watering, the crown/tip of the plant grew about two inches and began forming new leaves; my plan is to continue to supply only the amount of water needed to support and encourage leaf growth, but not enough to encourage new growth in height.
I intentionally dwarfed this plant just to see if I could do it, and it's responded extremely well. I'm happy about this, because I've had several failures in the past, and discovered the stems have a tendency to become quite leggy very quickly if they don't have enough light early on in their growth. I just got very lucky with this one...:D.
Only three days ago I discovered a new and very 'leggy' avocado seedling sprouting from one of my houseplant pots and I did't even know it was there until it literally hit me in the face as I was watering! By the time I can put it outside, the stem will likely be so thin and wobbly it can't hold its leaves, but I might try staking it.
Good luck with your seedling!
Blue
You can use it on any seedling. How effective it may be is a whole other discussion.
Damp off fungus quickly circulates through the entire plant and destroys the cellular structure of the stem. So the odds of saving the plant is minimal and if it does survive it is with a very weakened circulatory system and chronic health issues.
Damp-off is easily prevented in the first place with proper watering techniques and adequate air circulation so that is the best route to take.
As to the ants - assuming they are not actually fungus gnats, I assume these are plants in the ground rather than in containers? Containers aren't normally bothered by ants. The solution is to discover why and where the ants are attracted from and eliminate that causes/source. Most ants are considered garden neutrals - do little to any harm to plants - so more details would be needed to address that issue.
Dave
My I suggest planting those as far away from foot traffic as possible, The sticker balls that fall from the trees aren't any fun. I build a new house back in 2003 at a property that had two mature chestnut trees and they were the first thing I had to have cut down..The trees were not in the correct location and just didn't work, tried racking up the sticker balls and there was 8 wheel barrel fulls and there was still stickers on the ground.
I love to eat chestnuts.
I want to know which season is best for seeding it and Propagate it ??????????
Which country has more growth of chestnuts ????
Here is a link that might be useful: Tree Service Toronto
For the lasagna method, you alternate layers of green and brown over the layer of newspapers. I top it all off in the spring with a layer of composted horse manure. The first year I tried this method, I had time to build a bed for the following year and got it about 24" high. It really sunk down over winter (2007/2008) and last year it was level with the original ground. I just keep adding compost in some areas depending on what I plant.
I think you're supposed to give the layers at least 6 weeks to settle down. Last year I wanted to get going on a new bed right away. It was for winter squash which I planted in hills. I made a hole where I wanted the hill and added a few scoops of composted manure. It worked out well but the bed itself isn't in as good shape at the beds I built up with more layers.
The lasagna method gets organic material into the soil. My earthworm population grew. I don't walk on the beds so they are always soft. I think just adding soil on top of some newspapers hasn't left enough depth for roots. Flowers are probably ok unless they have a deep taproot. The paper takes a while to decompose. If you have grass clippings, kitchen waste, old hay, old leaves (chopped up), I would build up a higher pile. Then put the dirt on top. You still have time before spring planting.
If you need materials, you might have a neighbor with a pile of old grass clipping (without herbicides) they'd love to have you cart away. I also find free manure advertised on craigslist.
I'd agree that based on the info provided we aren't talking about a lasagna garden. What you describe is just newspaper with some dirt on top. In that case you are going to need at least 6 inches of dirt.
As to the mulch, it all depends on what you plan to use. The best organic mulches like straw, hay, grass clippings, shredded leaves, etc. can be added at any time and will also help improve the soil. They are easy to pull back, plant and recover.
Other less ideal mulches - things like wood chips and bark - would best go on after the plants are up enough to see where the plants are. You could rake them carefully back in spots to plant the seeds but make sure the bark/chips don't get mixed into the soil where they can bind up nitrogen.
If you plan to build real lasagna beds that are several layers deep and made out of multiple layers of mixed ingredients then the guidelines say to create small pockets/handfuls of soil within the top layers of the bed and plant the seeds in those pockets.
Dave
The 5-1-1 is mostly pine park. Where are going to find fine pine park to use. The pine park I bought at HD looks like 2x4 pieces and I don't have the time or the equipment or the desire to grind these things.
Yes you are supposed to move the plants to something larger. Don't know what your old system was - we might be able to help with that given details - but that is why the "kits" are generally a waste.
Of course it depends in part on exactly what you are growing in them and how long the plant has to stay in one before going to the garden.
Dave
Oh, thanks so much, Dave :) I am leaving soon and was planning to buy some more kits...
My old system was to germinate in an old round dehydrator on top of paper towels, then put into styrofoam cups which have slices at the bottom. These go into cardboard box bottoms (flats that had cans in the from the grocery store) that are in a plastic bag. i used to have a good set-up where the plants went under a table wrapped in plastic with the lights hanging down from the table.
This works really well, overall, but I tend to get overwhelmed and end up with a gazillion packages of cups. We have way more garden space than storage ar seed-starting space!
Thanks again--i think I'll use the kits I got for cut-and-come again lettuce mix and just use my old system!