6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Oh if you are already stratifying them - I thought you hadn't started them yet - then there really isn't anything you can do but to let them be and hope for the best. Or you can go ahead and plant them indoors, in pots, under supplemental lights to keep them from getting leggy, and plan to transplant them up to larger containers a couple of times until they can safely go outside.

Dave

    Bookmark     January 13, 2013 at 9:23PM
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tanyuu((5/6 - South IN))

Alright! Thanks for the advice. Thankfully I have a lot of room and pots, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

    Bookmark     January 13, 2013 at 9:32PM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

Part of it is the difference between an official "frost" (low temp of 32 at a reporting station) and ground frost.

Here where I am now, the numbers match rather well, being that I am on highish ground not far from the airport where our temps are recorded. Typically, as long as the official temp is over 32, I rarely lose any plants.

However, when I lived in Akron, OH - I ROUTINELY had killing ground frost that would wipe out bean plants, etc in mid to late May when the "official" low was 37 or 38 degrees. It's not that Akron is different per se in that regard (other than colder overall), just that there, I lived in a valley where cold air collected, so I got later spring and earlier fall frosts.

Which is why the "Memorial Day" adage existed there - most old timers never planted annuals until Memorial Day - although the average LFD at Akron-Canton airport is Apr. 29, ground frosts into mid-May are typical.

    Bookmark     January 12, 2013 at 10:45PM
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muddypaws4ever(6)

Great info! Thank you so much. Now I get it.

    Bookmark     January 13, 2013 at 10:45AM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Limited value I know as I only do a few trees from seeds and they are my fresh harvested ones. So I can't speak to "tree seeds" in general. But I think the method of storage would determine the viability/shelf life. So I'd want to find out the storage methods used by the supplier.

The USDA/Arbor Research org says the life expectancy of most tree seeds is 1-2 years if stored at ambient temps, up to 3 years if refrigerated, and 5 years if stored frozen. But I'm guessing that frozen tree seeds, just like other seeds, would need to be planted immediately upon thawing so if theirs are frozen, how would they ship to keep them from thawing?

I guess the bottom line is to insist on more viability info from the supplier, some sort of 'guarantee'.

Good luck.

Dave

PS: you might also ask over on the Trees forum here to see if others there have had experience with the particular companies and their quality.

    Bookmark     January 12, 2013 at 11:06AM
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lindabb77

I am looking for seeds or cuttings from a red butterfly bush. Can you taking cuttings or and seeds off the butterfly bush in the winter thanks for all your help

    Bookmark     January 11, 2013 at 2:13PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Cuttings are done in the early fall right after the bush goes dormant. Depending on where you live - you didn't indicate your zone - and the recent weather it is probably too late for cuttings. IF there still happens to be seeds and IF they haven't frozen then you 'might' be able to get them to germinate. Otherwise you will need to buy nursery stock.

Dave

    Bookmark     January 11, 2013 at 4:22PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Problems will depend on your set up and the specific varieties but be realistic and don't expect 100% success.

Too warm an environment and/or too little light will result in long lanky transplants with weak stems that won't survive for long. But it is a good way to learn how to control your temps and supplemental lighting. Likely no blooms unless you have extreme sun exposure or adjust the light spectrum used.

You may also have to do more than the usual 2-3 transplants - pot-ups - to larger containers and more potting mix. They will also require more nutrient supplements, water, and light. It is a good way to learn the symptoms of root-bound plants and to learn how to evaluate nutrient and water needs for the trade off of buying more containers and potting mix.

Eventually some of the plants may get so large that they won't survive hardening off and transplanting to the garden.

So it's a trade-off: learning and experience for loss of some plants and the work involved.

Hope this helps.

Dave

    Bookmark     January 8, 2013 at 12:56PM
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jduren(5 MO.)

Everything helps DigDirt and thx. I talked to the annual seed grower at the nursery I deal with and he gave me a lot of insight but because they time there annuals for the season early birding wasnt available. He said the biggest challenge will be going indoors to outside and care must be taken.

I have a double window on the southeast and temperatures there range from 65 at night to 80 during the day if I adjust the blinds..Jack

    Bookmark     January 8, 2013 at 1:17PM
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flora_uk(SW UK 8/9)

You did the right thing squeezing the tray. But not on pulling the baby plant. You need to get under it and ease it out - a table fork, pencil or any other small scoop like thing will help. (I'm assuming you have all your seedlings in one tray?) I use modules and then you can put your hand over the soil with the plant between your fingers and invert. As other have said, it doesn't matter too much if some of the mix falls off the roots.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pricking out

    Bookmark     January 7, 2013 at 4:07PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Pricking tool can equal a blind slat, sure. They also sell tools specific for the task but I have seen folks use the handle of a dinnerware teaspoon, a wood chopstick, the blade of an old table knife/butterknife, a piece of a wood shim, etc. etc. anything that fits in the space.

And as Flora said do NOT pull on the seedling, especially the stem. Leaves will be replaced but damage the stem and the plant will never recover.

As to wetness - seedlings always need to be well watered before transplanting. It helps prevent transplant shock. So if your mix, even when wet, is falling apart then it wasn't firmly enough packed to begin with.

You still didn't tell us what brand mix you are using. That info would help.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: U-Tube videos on pricking seedlings

    Bookmark     January 7, 2013 at 4:23PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

just a matter of economising on the electricity. Am I right digdirt?

Basically yes, that and convenience based on set-up used. Usually all germination is done is some sort of confined area/container, enclosed so that soil temps can be maintained. An insulated 'hot box' propagator full of germination trays is common in commercial greenhouses - kind of like a big insulated cold frame full of heat cables.

It's heated to germination temps so that the entire enclosure (GH, basement, room, whatever) doesn't have to be heated. But it has no space for lights of any kind and the natural light even in the GH at this time of year isn't sufficient. So once germination begins the trays are moved to the lighted areas where the cooler temps benefit slow growth.

The exception of course is those few flowers and things that require both heat AND light for germination. They get a special set-up.

So depending on the set-up used for propagation, if it is convenient to have lights there as well, great. If not then the containers need to be moved to the light ASAP.

Dave

    Bookmark     January 6, 2013 at 2:49PM
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flora_uk(SW UK 8/9)

Thanks for that, digdirt. I have a small heated propagator which I use in my glass porch/greenhouse. Light setups in domestic situations are very unusual here.

    Bookmark     January 7, 2013 at 5:07AM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Rigged in series one thermostat can control 3 heat pads.

Dave

    Bookmark     January 6, 2013 at 10:53PM
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jduren(5 MO.)

Wont the temperature be inconsistent where the sensor is and isn't on several pads?

    Bookmark     January 6, 2013 at 11:12PM
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jonfrum(6)

Seed saving is low on my list of priorities. Biennials like carrot and beet don't make sense for a small scale gardener - it's have to leave plant in the ground for a second year, wasting space. And squash varieties interbreed promiscuously, so I'd have to put in the work of doing controlled pollinations. I'll be saving seed from my open pollinated tomatoes and peppers, but that's it.

    Bookmark     January 6, 2013 at 3:49PM
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yiorges-z5il

I dont save seed because i desire seed with a wide range of disease resistance. But that is just me? & at 75 I am not about to change
If you are looking for advice go the the seed saving forum & heritage seed/plants

    Bookmark     January 6, 2013 at 3:53PM
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yiorges-z5il

Yes they are starting to germinate...you did nothing wrong
I would start them is a 4-6 inch pot & set them out where you want them to grow, after the dangerof frost has passed

    Bookmark     January 6, 2013 at 3:48PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Given all the negative issues associated with peat pots why use them at all? They don't contribute anything to germination rates or times and you have to tear them off before transplanting anyway so nothing is gained.

Dave

    Bookmark     January 5, 2013 at 5:44PM
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mandolls(4)

Most of my seedlings get transplanted up a couple of times. Usually seeded in small shallow trays, they get transplanted to little 4oz plastic cups (bathroom size) then many of them move up to 9, 12 or 16 oz cups as they need it.

I stopped using peat pots, but last year tried some of the Cow manure pots (4") for some things that do not like being transplanted. They worked very well, dissolving within a matter of days when planted outside. I dipped them in a bucket of water before planting them in the ground to make sure they were saturated, and tore off any of the top edge that was above ground. I had one of my cucumbers die quickly, and when I went to replace it I couldnt find any remains of the pot.

    Bookmark     January 6, 2013 at 8:40AM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

The FAQ here explains all about using just plain 4' shop lights with standard T8 bulbs bought at Walmart or Home Depot etc. That is all most use and the least expensive way to go. And if you search 'light set-up' here and especially over on the Growing Under Lights forum (linked directly from this forum's page) there are all kinds of pictures people have posted showing their home-made lighting set ups.

Most any of the gardening supply or greenhouse supply online sites offer all sorts of lighting set ups.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Light set up discussions

    Bookmark     December 29, 2012 at 9:21PM
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susanzone5(z5NY)

I bought my grow light setup from Park Seed catalog. It's two levels, 8 trays, and stands on its own. I had to add two more shop lights to it (one on each level isn't enough light), which was simple to do with a drill and some chain you can get by the foot at Lowes.

The setup has 4 40" fluorescent shop light fixtures, two on each level. Each fixture has a regular fluorescent tube and a full spectrum light tube. Grow-light tubes are expensive, and the full spectrum works fine. Get them at Lowes also.

I've used this setup for over 25 years and have replaced bulbs rarely. I can raise and lower the lights with the adjustible chains. It fits in the corner of a room. Now that I'm older and don't want to kneel down all the time, I have propped up the whole thing on four 5-gallon buckets.

Hope this helps!

    Bookmark     January 2, 2013 at 7:11PM
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morz8(Washington Coast Z8b)

Pfaf.org...
" sow spring in a pot emmersed to half its depth in water. Germination should take place within a couple of weeks. Prick out seedlings into individual pots whilst they are still small and increase the depth of water gradually until they are submerged. Plant out into water in the summer. Cuttings can be taken at any time in the growing season"

If doing this indoors, you may want to change the water in the holding container from time to time. And provide a fan periodically for air movement...but that's thinking out loud, I haven't grown watercress.

    Bookmark     January 2, 2013 at 11:41AM
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flora_uk(SW UK 8/9)

jduren, I am envisaging that maybe you intended to place your pots or trays inside the aquarium rather than fill it with mix and sow directly into it? But as digdirt says, it is going to be a finicky job converting that into a seed starting place. All you need is a container ( as simple as a margarine tub), some seed mix, a plastic dome or even, as he suggested, plastic film or a plastic bag and some bottom heat. Personally, I don't even think you need lights if you have a sunny window. I have none and they are rarely used by amateurs in the UK.

Read the info I linked to on starting Tacca seeds.

As with many activities, there are plenty of people trying to sell you equipment which you really don't need. Keep it simple. It's not the equipment which will make your seeds grow but your skill in creating the conditions they need.

Digdirt always offers very full and informative answers and is trying to help.

Here is a link that might be useful: Another thread on Tacca

    Bookmark     January 1, 2013 at 5:38PM
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jduren(5 MO.)

I'm not discrediting Digdirt But it was a question and if I already knew the answer I wouldn't have asked it. Sorry to get so defensive. I spent too many years on woodworking forums with amateurs.

The Tacca seeds may or may not require 9 months or may not grow at all. I'm challenged by the fact that they are difficult to germinate and figured thats for me.

I have a finished basement where I thought using the aquarium could be used and undisturbed by anybody.

Everything for me on this will be trial and error. I've read many articles on the Tacca seed germination. Setup, correct media as well whom to order from is confusing.

    Bookmark     January 1, 2013 at 6:28PM
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yiorges-z5il

soak seed in water for 12 hours then lightly cover the seed .. soil temp for germination 55-61

    Bookmark     January 1, 2013 at 10:32AM
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