6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed
yep - I do my best to avoid any MG/ Scotts products for the same reasons, so I am with you there.
I tried the Dyna-Grow Fish /Kelp fert that I use in the garden on my indoor seedlings once - nothing quite like walking into a warm humid fishy smelling space - took a week for the smell to dissipate.
You do love to play semantics don't you Brandon? Pulling 1 or 2 words out of context to take issue with them really serves little purpose yet you do it repeatedly here.
The point was the different types of ProMix and yes, ProMix BX is Premier Hort's all-purpose mix (as opposed to their other mixes) or general purpose (which for most mean the same thing). It is and has been used by thousands of amatuer and professional growers alike for both seed starting, growing on with seedlings and yes, even for outdoor nursery stock growing. There are hundreds of discussions here testifying to that.
If you don't care for it or for its use in some cases that is your choice but the history of its and consensus of its value fall heavily in its favor.
Dave
"You do love to play semantics don't you Brandon? Pulling 1 or 2 words out of context to take issue with them really serves little purpose yet you do it repeatedly here."
I don't have time to play anything with you Dave. The comments weren't meant to be in response to anything you said or to solicit a personal attack from you. Professionals use the right media for the right purpose. BX clearly has lots of uses and there are also clearly uses for which it is not the best (that's why there are different mixes out there).
You just want something to argue about, and personally I don't have much more time for it. If you want to give your point of view, give it. Let others give their point of view. If the comments aren't addressed to you, try not to take them personally. Why don't we try to keep the discussion on a little more professional level?
This post was edited by brandon7 on Wed, Apr 2, 14 at 23:10
Don't be afraid to separate and transplant them into individual pots once they get large enough to handle. That should be at 1-2 pairs of true leaves (discounting the cotyledons)
You don't have your zone posted, so we don't know when you can plant them out. But if you are up north like me, you can't plant them out for a while. If so they will need to be separated, so they have room to grow.
I am also growing snaps for the first time this year. Mine are in individual pots now and mostly 3" tall. I am just praying I can keep them happy and healthy for another 6 weeks inside. I plan on pinching them back soon to get them to bush out.
"One the main (reasons to transplant seedlings) is that many seedlings require at least 1 transplanting to trigger the development of feeder roots."
Seedlings will develop feeder roots either way (and possibly even more, by volume, if not transplanted), but transplantation produced a more branched root system, which is beneficial when the plants are replanted / planted out. Instead of a few longer roots, you get multiple shorter/more-branched roots.
A few other important reasons to transplant seedlings are related to space and effort. By staring multiple seeds in one container, required space is minimized, at least until the seedlings have to be potted up. If your germination rate is 60%, 40% of the required growing area per seed is wasted, and if the growing area per seed is large (as it would be if the seeds were in individual pots or spaced for larger plants) the wasted space would be large. Related to that, your effort to plant each plant in it's own pot is not wasted with less than 100% germination rates.
I germinate and grow in the same pot. Until i am ready to transplant. I have never EVER used sterilized soil...which to me makes NO sense, because there are all sorts of icky things any way. I used jiffy-pots last year... they arent worth it! Ive been digging them out of my beds all day long... >.
I've tried both and much prefer the T5's. I stress prefer purposely because I was able to start seedlings with the T8's. But, no surprise to some, I think the T5's are more effective.
Think extra light in the same space for less power. No leggy seedlings, no need to keep the fixture directly on top of of the plants. More air movement due to more space under the lights. Less stress on the plants - think better light penetration to the lower leaves of taller plants - no phototropism due to insufficient light.
One warning - the t5's get hot. You in fact can't keep the light right on top of the plants. Do so and you will cook yer babies.
Now, I started seedlings for years with a dual T8 fixture. The seedlings were usually leggy - despite having the light low and a fan on the side blowing over the flat. Unless I got them outside under stronger light after the second or third sets of leaves, they were inevitably tall and thin. I live in the Chicago suburbs. Getting them out early is not usually an option.
So, it made sense for me to get the stronger lights. Pricey, but I'm happy with them.
I start just planted under t8s , once I get the first true set of leaves I move them under t5s. To me the comparison is night and day.
last year I was able to grow tomatoes with fruit under the t5 set up, no way this could be done with t8s, that being said for many years I have used a stoplight and fan and gotten adequate seedlings.
For me the I have already gotten the value out of my t5s by growing through the winter , but if I only wanted seedling I would stick with a t8s.
Honestly 20-20-20 is too strong for anything, has no role at all in any form of gardening IMO. Definitely not anywhere near young seedlings.
Common seedling feeding recommendation is 3-1-1 diluted to 1/2 strength (1.5-0.5-0.5) or less (many use 1/4 strength). I don't think you could dilute 20-20-20 to that level with any accuracy.
Dave
So, I want to throw my own $.02 in here because I think there's a lot of factors to consider here.
Keep in mind the way some do it is not the only way. There are as many ways to grow plants as there are people who do it.
In regards to compost, worm castings, garden soil etc. used in a seed starting cell or tray I do not follow that practice or recommend it to other growers. The main reason is compaction and the other is sterility.
Because this is a thread on DOD we'll discuss the sterility. It is, to me, important to use a "clean" mix when starting seeds indoors rather then one that is rife with microbes. The reason is volume and concentration of those microbes as well as the environment.
You simply cannot compare an indoor seedling "nursery" to your outdoor garden. While all of the above ingredients a happy garden make, in the very different environment of a seed starting tray it has the potential to be very detrimental. The wet, warm soil, combined with low air movement and lack of temperature fluctuations all in a volume of soil that is many times smaller then an outdoor garden can cause an imbalance in the microflora of the soil.
In particular, I think, the overwatering is the largest detriment to seedlings for a myriad of reasons. Specifically for DOD, not only is a warm wet medium especially appealing to most microbes, the lack of air space in the soil in conducive mostly to anaerobic life forms which, generally speaking, pose more of a problem then aerobic ones.
I am not trying to spread doom and gloom, because there are lots and lots people who use straight compost and garden soil to start seeds indoors and have great success. I don't do it and I also have great success. This is simply my reasoning on why I chose to do things this way.
Yes, 45-50 is an acceptable minimum, not the ideal as it slows germination but acceptable. However, leaving the lights on longer hours or even all the time is no problem for the plants, neither is adding a space heater set on low (which is what most do). Adding heat mats after germination - no.
Dave
I start all my seedlings under lights only. I, too, and relegated to the laundry room with no windows. As long as your lights are close enough (I keep my fluorescent tubes ~1" from the top) you should be fine.
If I knew how, I'd post some pictures. Either way, the window, IMHO doesn't provide much of any light to growing seedlings anyways, so you're not losing much without them.
Thanks, I was thinking the same on the windows not giving much light.
I set it up last night and I think I like it better than the table. Everything I need is there and I don't have to worry about making a mess because the floor is tile with a drainage hole.
I can't know what you mean by "wrapping"? A plastic tent? Mylar blankets? 1/2 wrapped and 1/2 unwrapped? Can you "wrap" the rest now? Depends on what you mean.
That all means very different things to different people so it would be easy to mislead you. A photo or detailed description please.
Now I find out I have to plant much sooner than I thought. (community garden)
They are dictating your planting dates??? Why on earth would they do that? Do they have magic weather control or something?
Dave
Sounds like you may be gardening for the first time. I think of gardening as a big experiment. And I try new things every year. "Forcing" is usually a word used when talking about bulbs and corms.
Most of the time, I do not wrap seed germinating trays/cells because of possible damping off problems, which kills newly germinated seedlings. I usually use air circulation, a slow fan on a timer (on for 1/3 or 1/4 of the time) sitting across the room. It also helps the seedlings to toughen up so they can handle wind better. (For every rule, there are exceptions!)
Planting out ... There are cool season crops and warm season crops. Some cools season crops can handle light freezing and frost. Warm season crops can not. So you cannot just plant a garden all at once. I build my garden as the season progresses. Do a web search on "cool weather crops" or "warm weather crops".
My guess is that if you show the community garden people that you are working the plot, maintaining it, using it, weeding it, that they will be satisfied. If you want to show early progress... Some plants can be directly seeded into the garden. Lettuce, beets, carrots, radishes can survive cool weather (and can germinate fast in the garden if conditions are good).
If the community garden people understand gardening, they will know this stuff. If they are new at it, they will be learning.
I used the wild seed mix that I purchased from joblots, a local store in my area. I did this each year but have yet to see any yield from it. The best thing to do is purchase seeds from a great store online such as Johnny's selected seeds or plants that are growing from a nursery. It's tricky I know.
I pinch back pretty much any of my annuals that send up a central stalk. Zinnia, bedding dahlias, pansies, snaps, galardia, petunias, geraniums, verbena, bachelor buttons, pretty much everything but Impatiens, which branch out like crazy without it. I start them early enough that I can pinch them back and they have time to re-grow and be close to bloom when I plant them out.
I confess to being a bit of a pincher too....but probably for bad reasons as often as good ones - all those seeds which I started too early and are getting leggy, those in danger of falling over (staking?tying? I don't think so).....in fact, I am an enthusiastic adherent to the Chelsea Chop, a late May shearing back of numerous plants to keep them sturdy (because I am not staking the bigger ones either). The pinching goes every way - leaders, tips, side shoots (woe betide a wayward tomato or sweet pea side-shoot escaping my eagle eye).
I would say though, it is pretty much horses for courses, entirely optional (I am an inveterate meddler and prodder).
Peppers are slow growers but part of your problem would appear to be overly wet soil and pots - which peppers don't like. The peat/cow pots are notorious for moisture control problems at best and peppers prefer to dry out a bit between waterings.
Overly wet soil causes the roots to have difficulty - slow growth, root rot, lack of sufficient air, poor drainage, etc. are all issues that can arise. Try cutting back on the watering and see if they don't perk up quite a bit.
Also with T8 lights - get the plants closer. Just a 1/2" hair above the top of the plants. 2" is definitely too high.
Hope this helps.
Dave
Thanks for your help! I will definitely try that.