6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed
I've tried both and much prefer the T5's. I stress prefer purposely because I was able to start seedlings with the T8's. But, no surprise to some, I think the T5's are more effective.
Think extra light in the same space for less power. No leggy seedlings, no need to keep the fixture directly on top of of the plants. More air movement due to more space under the lights. Less stress on the plants - think better light penetration to the lower leaves of taller plants - no phototropism due to insufficient light.
One warning - the t5's get hot. You in fact can't keep the light right on top of the plants. Do so and you will cook yer babies.
Now, I started seedlings for years with a dual T8 fixture. The seedlings were usually leggy - despite having the light low and a fan on the side blowing over the flat. Unless I got them outside under stronger light after the second or third sets of leaves, they were inevitably tall and thin. I live in the Chicago suburbs. Getting them out early is not usually an option.
So, it made sense for me to get the stronger lights. Pricey, but I'm happy with them.
I start just planted under t8s , once I get the first true set of leaves I move them under t5s. To me the comparison is night and day.
last year I was able to grow tomatoes with fruit under the t5 set up, no way this could be done with t8s, that being said for many years I have used a stoplight and fan and gotten adequate seedlings.
For me the I have already gotten the value out of my t5s by growing through the winter , but if I only wanted seedling I would stick with a t8s.
Honestly 20-20-20 is too strong for anything, has no role at all in any form of gardening IMO. Definitely not anywhere near young seedlings.
Common seedling feeding recommendation is 3-1-1 diluted to 1/2 strength (1.5-0.5-0.5) or less (many use 1/4 strength). I don't think you could dilute 20-20-20 to that level with any accuracy.
Dave
So, I want to throw my own $.02 in here because I think there's a lot of factors to consider here.
Keep in mind the way some do it is not the only way. There are as many ways to grow plants as there are people who do it.
In regards to compost, worm castings, garden soil etc. used in a seed starting cell or tray I do not follow that practice or recommend it to other growers. The main reason is compaction and the other is sterility.
Because this is a thread on DOD we'll discuss the sterility. It is, to me, important to use a "clean" mix when starting seeds indoors rather then one that is rife with microbes. The reason is volume and concentration of those microbes as well as the environment.
You simply cannot compare an indoor seedling "nursery" to your outdoor garden. While all of the above ingredients a happy garden make, in the very different environment of a seed starting tray it has the potential to be very detrimental. The wet, warm soil, combined with low air movement and lack of temperature fluctuations all in a volume of soil that is many times smaller then an outdoor garden can cause an imbalance in the microflora of the soil.
In particular, I think, the overwatering is the largest detriment to seedlings for a myriad of reasons. Specifically for DOD, not only is a warm wet medium especially appealing to most microbes, the lack of air space in the soil in conducive mostly to anaerobic life forms which, generally speaking, pose more of a problem then aerobic ones.
I am not trying to spread doom and gloom, because there are lots and lots people who use straight compost and garden soil to start seeds indoors and have great success. I don't do it and I also have great success. This is simply my reasoning on why I chose to do things this way.
Yes, 45-50 is an acceptable minimum, not the ideal as it slows germination but acceptable. However, leaving the lights on longer hours or even all the time is no problem for the plants, neither is adding a space heater set on low (which is what most do). Adding heat mats after germination - no.
Dave
I start all my seedlings under lights only. I, too, and relegated to the laundry room with no windows. As long as your lights are close enough (I keep my fluorescent tubes ~1" from the top) you should be fine.
If I knew how, I'd post some pictures. Either way, the window, IMHO doesn't provide much of any light to growing seedlings anyways, so you're not losing much without them.
Thanks, I was thinking the same on the windows not giving much light.
I set it up last night and I think I like it better than the table. Everything I need is there and I don't have to worry about making a mess because the floor is tile with a drainage hole.
I can't know what you mean by "wrapping"? A plastic tent? Mylar blankets? 1/2 wrapped and 1/2 unwrapped? Can you "wrap" the rest now? Depends on what you mean.
That all means very different things to different people so it would be easy to mislead you. A photo or detailed description please.
Now I find out I have to plant much sooner than I thought. (community garden)
They are dictating your planting dates??? Why on earth would they do that? Do they have magic weather control or something?
Dave
Sounds like you may be gardening for the first time. I think of gardening as a big experiment. And I try new things every year. "Forcing" is usually a word used when talking about bulbs and corms.
Most of the time, I do not wrap seed germinating trays/cells because of possible damping off problems, which kills newly germinated seedlings. I usually use air circulation, a slow fan on a timer (on for 1/3 or 1/4 of the time) sitting across the room. It also helps the seedlings to toughen up so they can handle wind better. (For every rule, there are exceptions!)
Planting out ... There are cool season crops and warm season crops. Some cools season crops can handle light freezing and frost. Warm season crops can not. So you cannot just plant a garden all at once. I build my garden as the season progresses. Do a web search on "cool weather crops" or "warm weather crops".
My guess is that if you show the community garden people that you are working the plot, maintaining it, using it, weeding it, that they will be satisfied. If you want to show early progress... Some plants can be directly seeded into the garden. Lettuce, beets, carrots, radishes can survive cool weather (and can germinate fast in the garden if conditions are good).
If the community garden people understand gardening, they will know this stuff. If they are new at it, they will be learning.
I used the wild seed mix that I purchased from joblots, a local store in my area. I did this each year but have yet to see any yield from it. The best thing to do is purchase seeds from a great store online such as Johnny's selected seeds or plants that are growing from a nursery. It's tricky I know.
I pinch back pretty much any of my annuals that send up a central stalk. Zinnia, bedding dahlias, pansies, snaps, galardia, petunias, geraniums, verbena, bachelor buttons, pretty much everything but Impatiens, which branch out like crazy without it. I start them early enough that I can pinch them back and they have time to re-grow and be close to bloom when I plant them out.
I confess to being a bit of a pincher too....but probably for bad reasons as often as good ones - all those seeds which I started too early and are getting leggy, those in danger of falling over (staking?tying? I don't think so).....in fact, I am an enthusiastic adherent to the Chelsea Chop, a late May shearing back of numerous plants to keep them sturdy (because I am not staking the bigger ones either). The pinching goes every way - leaders, tips, side shoots (woe betide a wayward tomato or sweet pea side-shoot escaping my eagle eye).
I would say though, it is pretty much horses for courses, entirely optional (I am an inveterate meddler and prodder).
I think your set up will work fine. I didn't use any heat this year and the seeds came up within 5 days, with seeds from last year. Just put some cling wrap over the pots to keep the moisture in until you see the first tiny green leaves, then take the plastic off ASAP.
As for the light, it just means that don't keep them in the dark; it doesn't need strong lights to germinate, just some. Light duration is more important than the actually strength. I've grown these every year, and my first year didn't even have a light set up, just placed them on south facing windows during the day. They did great!
The biggest challenge with lobelia is separating them and transplanting them into pots - they are tiny!!!
Last year I sowed them in clam shell boxes - a pack of seed per box. Then when they were about an inch tall, I used a little scoop and scooped out about 1/2 teaspoon full at a time (10-12 plants?) and moved them to little 3oz cups were they grew until I planted them out, or moved them into baskets. Some people separate them into smaller clumps than that, but mine did just fine, they don't seem to mind being crowded together.
Do you have fluorescent lights to grow the seedling under while they are indoors? Tomatoes, Peppers, and Beans are all warm weather lovers, so in MN you won't be able to plant them in the ground until towards the end of May, even with cloches. I don't put mine out until the first of June, and sometimes that is to early. Its way to early to start the bean seeds, they won't be happy in pots for more then 3 weeks or so. Most people direct seed them. Carrots are always direct seeded, as transplanting will stunt them.
Without fluorescent lights directly over (2") those plants will be very weak and spindly after two months of being indoors.
For hardening off, the direct sun factor is as/ or more important than the wind. The standard way to harden off plants is to bring them in and out, and in and out, lengthing the time they spend outside every day or so, obviously this will be a problem for you. Can you build a protective environment with screen to diffuse the light, and plastic to put over if it get cold, and keep them outside at your garden? I harden mine off by putting them on my screened in porch which only gets a few hours of direct sun, and is protected from the wind. I just put them out there and leave them - unless it is going to get down under 40 degrees - then I bring them in. I plant them in there beds on a cloudy day, or shade them for a day or two when they go into full sun.
would it be a bad idea to add this comparatively small and therefore dilute amount to the vermiculite so that there is a trace amount of GA-3 during the process of stratification.
It probably wouldn't hurt much of anything given the extreme dilution but personally I'd save it for use on something where it is really needed. It isn't cheap stuff. :)
Dave
WRT GA-3 - study up before you start horsing around with it. Read Deno material and check out germination and GA-3 on the Hudson site.
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/GibberellicAcid.htm#GA-3%20Quick-Start%20Instructions
When you say you have a small amount - what amount? Dosages of GA-3 are measured in Milligrams and 500 PPM is one of the most common dilutions. The amount that can be placed on a toothpick head is the amount that we are talking about in terms of measurements.
Just willy-nilly tossing some GA-3 into a bunch of seed cause you have it is rather foolish. You might kill or drastically deform the seeds.
Just a word of warning.
"One the main (reasons to transplant seedlings) is that many seedlings require at least 1 transplanting to trigger the development of feeder roots."
Seedlings will develop feeder roots either way (and possibly even more, by volume, if not transplanted), but transplantation produced a more branched root system, which is beneficial when the plants are replanted / planted out. Instead of a few longer roots, you get multiple shorter/more-branched roots.
A few other important reasons to transplant seedlings are related to space and effort. By staring multiple seeds in one container, required space is minimized, at least until the seedlings have to be potted up. If your germination rate is 60%, 40% of the required growing area per seed is wasted, and if the growing area per seed is large (as it would be if the seeds were in individual pots or spaced for larger plants) the wasted space would be large. Related to that, your effort to plant each plant in it's own pot is not wasted with less than 100% germination rates.
I germinate and grow in the same pot. Until i am ready to transplant. I have never EVER used sterilized soil...which to me makes NO sense, because there are all sorts of icky things any way. I used jiffy-pots last year... they arent worth it! Ive been digging them out of my beds all day long... >.