6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed
Do you have fluorescent lights to grow the seedling under while they are indoors? Tomatoes, Peppers, and Beans are all warm weather lovers, so in MN you won't be able to plant them in the ground until towards the end of May, even with cloches. I don't put mine out until the first of June, and sometimes that is to early. Its way to early to start the bean seeds, they won't be happy in pots for more then 3 weeks or so. Most people direct seed them. Carrots are always direct seeded, as transplanting will stunt them.
Without fluorescent lights directly over (2") those plants will be very weak and spindly after two months of being indoors.
For hardening off, the direct sun factor is as/ or more important than the wind. The standard way to harden off plants is to bring them in and out, and in and out, lengthing the time they spend outside every day or so, obviously this will be a problem for you. Can you build a protective environment with screen to diffuse the light, and plastic to put over if it get cold, and keep them outside at your garden? I harden mine off by putting them on my screened in porch which only gets a few hours of direct sun, and is protected from the wind. I just put them out there and leave them - unless it is going to get down under 40 degrees - then I bring them in. I plant them in there beds on a cloudy day, or shade them for a day or two when they go into full sun.
would it be a bad idea to add this comparatively small and therefore dilute amount to the vermiculite so that there is a trace amount of GA-3 during the process of stratification.
It probably wouldn't hurt much of anything given the extreme dilution but personally I'd save it for use on something where it is really needed. It isn't cheap stuff. :)
Dave
WRT GA-3 - study up before you start horsing around with it. Read Deno material and check out germination and GA-3 on the Hudson site.
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/GibberellicAcid.htm#GA-3%20Quick-Start%20Instructions
When you say you have a small amount - what amount? Dosages of GA-3 are measured in Milligrams and 500 PPM is one of the most common dilutions. The amount that can be placed on a toothpick head is the amount that we are talking about in terms of measurements.
Just willy-nilly tossing some GA-3 into a bunch of seed cause you have it is rather foolish. You might kill or drastically deform the seeds.
Just a word of warning.
I love this technique for ALL my medium to large sized seeds... I usually soak smaller seeds and surface sow.
If you're using this method for peppers give it at least 10 days - this year the majority of my peppers didn't germinate until 18-20 days! Compared to 3 days for tomatoes, zucchini, cucumbers, it is shocking.
I have been using this method for several years, especially for my peppers and tomatoes. I use coffee filters, which I find stronger, and I place the seeds on my TV receiver for heat. Does a great job and they're up in 3-5 days, especially if the seed is fresh. I keep them in the filters until the root is well developed, and the shoot with the green cotyledons are exposed. I have found that pepper seeds are notorious for not shedding their seed coats, so I keep them in the filters until they are past that stage. I have had the experience of leaving them on, in case I destroy the seedling, and having a 'dud' plant. So I make sure I have a good strong seedling to pot up and put under my lights.
How tall are these seedlings, how easy to handle without damage?
An inch apart isn't bad for a short while as the roots won't begin to entangle themselves right way when spaced like that.
Once they get to a comfortable working-with size then just carefully dump out the soil container onto a workspace and gently seprate the seedlings and transplant them. With many things that is usually when true leaves develop.
You might ask over on the Trees forum if anyone has done this as tree seeds are quite different and much slower in their development that are flowers and vegetables.
Dave
I would put in a zip lock w/a bit of damp soil and place it in the fridge. Since your seed has been naturally stratified outside since the Fall you may be surprised at how quickly it germinates. I collected buckeye seeds in the Fall, put them in a bag and they germinated in the fridge w/in a month! Just make sure, if your seed does germinate and you decide to pot it before putting it outside, that you give it a tallish pot because they grow tap roots and these need a LOT of growing room! Good luck!
Or not - depending on your preferences. But either way you'll get leeks. I'm not sure why you'd need 'sturdier' leeks since the long white part is what you're after, not a dumpy bulb. It's one plant which is actually better etiolated up to a point. BTW if you have a lot, pencil size they're delicious in a vinaigrette. This video implies trimming actually lowers yields.
Here is a link that might be useful: Growing leeks
Germination time is determined by the soil temp you maintain. Most varieties will germinate within 3-4 days with 75 degree soil, longer - 7-10 days with cooler soil.
best way to go about this is to use individual pots.
Individual containers for each variety, yes, but not necessarily "pots". Any shallow container with drain holes and 2-2 1/2" of seed starting mix works fine. If you use deep pots then only put a couple of inches of mix in them.
Once well germinated they are then transplanted into individual containers.
Plastic domes are strictly optional. Newbies like them until the discover the problems they can cause. They are not required for any reason and experienced growers seldom use them. If some sort of dome is used then yes, it needs to vented for air or removed periodically to allow for air circulation.
There is a great FAQ on how to grow tomatoes from seed as well as other FAQs here you might want to browse through. Just click on the blue FAQ button near the top of this page.
Good luck and enjoy your tomatoes.
Dave
Well it is an extraordinarily long time for hardening off and it will very likely trigger the need for another transplanting to keep them from getting rootbound. You'd be better off planting them early and covering/protecting them to avoid all the extra stress on them.
But if you have no other options I guess you'll have to but you'll need to do it very carefully as plants that old are less tolerant of the adjustments. Can't your lights be adjusted to accommodate them?
If they can't go into the ground for another 3 weeks then it sounds as if you started them far too early. Normally tomato plants only take 6-8 weeks prior to plant out time including hardening off.
Dave
And that's why records are important :-) I planted them 5 weeks ago, working with the 6-8 week timeframe (thinking 8 was better than 6). But, they are outperforming my expectations, so probably did do a week or so early.
I might be able to get them in the ground sooner. April 1st is our last frost date, so they can go in the ground very shortly if I get them hardened off. The problem is that spring is the busiest time at my work, so I always take a vacation to get everything in the ground. I really do make it more complicated than it might need to be - it won't take that long to get them in the ground - maybe I can do one night after work and get them in sooner than I was planning.
Thanks for the quick reply!
Jennie
Bobby, if you Google "germination temperature" you will find numerous extension websites and others that have charts for vegetables & flowers. Here is one.
Here is a link that might be useful: Optimal germination temperatures for seeds
organic flutterby,
Try to remember that gardening is a process of learning, trying, and then learning from successes and failures. The generous people who offer their advice here and who write books and blogs have gone through this process for many years. I would hazard to guess that most of them still have successes and unforeseen failures from which they learn, even with all of that experience. So relax, read as much as you can from a variety of sources, and then try things. What works is great, and what fails is a lesson learned. Try something different next time. My first garden many years ago was a huge experiment. I had no idea what a bean plant looked like and was pleasantly surprised when I actually harvested enough veggies to freeze and can some extras for winter. Been at it for over 30 years since then and I have successes and failures every year. That is the challenge, and what keeps it interesting. Try not to take it all so seriously and enjoy the process!
Woah woah woah! Never feel bummed! Take your successes and run with them, take your failures and learn from them.
My first garden, I planted about 8 different kinds of seeds. You what I would up growing? Beans, and that was quite by accident! That year I even tried growing 2 indeterminate tomatoes in these tiny little containers with less then 1/2 a bag of soil each! (The coup de grâce was when I woke up one morning and all my beans looked like they had been in a fight with a weed whacker, covered with a layer of hail that looked like it had snowed). Then, the first time I tried starting seeds indoors, I killed every single transplant, except for 2 cabbages, because I didn't harden them off. You talk about naivety and feeling bummed? Holy cow, and we are only on year number one!
It's been a while since then, though not nearly as long as a lot of people here (not that I'm calling them old or anything ;P) and now my failures are no longer as daunting. And believe me, there are quite a few of them, but I also have a lot more success, too. It's a learning thing, and the coolest part bout it is that there is always new learning! You never know it all because gardening is not one size fits all. You have to try new things, and try to improve old things to fit you, and your current situation.
As for your seedlings in question: The good news is that if you loose any, you have time to redo darn near all of them.
-I don't typically transplant onions, unless they are really crowded and/or I start them way too early.
-Lettuce, I always direct seed. So, if your lettuce started indoors doesn't make it, you always have direct sewing as a back-up plan, and you wont be behind anyways.
-The tomatoes, I wouldn't throw those ones out, but I would put in another batch of seed just in case. There is plenty of time for starting tomatoes yet. in fact, here in my zone 5 climate I don't start my tomato seeds until mid-late march, and I know a lot of folks around here who wait until April so, you'd be right on schedule if you popped some more in right now, or even if you waited a week or two.
-The cabbage type plants, I'd also give it a couple weeks or so and then start some more seeds, just in case these ones don't make it or don't transplant very well. You are still at least 2 months out for your last expected frost, which is plenty of time to start another batch.
High wattage lights are overrated particularly if all you're doing is growing seedlings. A 2 tube or 4 tube fluorescent 4 foot shoplight is sufficient. Cool white F32T8 bulbs work great and very easy to find. Don't bother with expensive growbulbs. The 2 tube shop lights can be better for seedlings because the 4 tube lights can be a bit warm for seedlings unless you set it high. But then what would be the point of having the extra light? I prefer starting my seedlings under the 2 tube light then advance the seedlings to the 4 tube light after they've grown and I want to get them ready for hardening them off.
I've been growing cactus plants under a 2 tube 4 foot shop light for years using Cool White F32T8 bulbs. They do very well and my light bill never notices the energy expenditure.
Mossonarock I do agree that they are little spendy for just seed starting the CFL bulbs and the HPS. but the HPS i have seen a huge difference in my seedling development when i move them from my CFL's on top to my HPS lamps on bottom. I am not running a very high wattage of HPS just 150 watts so it does not get very hot. but i do have the set up in my colder garage with a exhaust fan to push fresh colder air up toward the top of the grow area. I have been experimenting with this for some months now and i believe when the plant is in its 4 to 5 week stage of development putting it under a Metal halide or High pressure sodium lamp really helps the plant make more chlorophyll than a CFL bulb does, giving larger leaves and more dark green foliage.
Here is a link that might be useful: TheItalian Garden
I think your set up will work fine. I didn't use any heat this year and the seeds came up within 5 days, with seeds from last year. Just put some cling wrap over the pots to keep the moisture in until you see the first tiny green leaves, then take the plastic off ASAP.
As for the light, it just means that don't keep them in the dark; it doesn't need strong lights to germinate, just some. Light duration is more important than the actually strength. I've grown these every year, and my first year didn't even have a light set up, just placed them on south facing windows during the day. They did great!
The biggest challenge with lobelia is separating them and transplanting them into pots - they are tiny!!!
Last year I sowed them in clam shell boxes - a pack of seed per box. Then when they were about an inch tall, I used a little scoop and scooped out about 1/2 teaspoon full at a time (10-12 plants?) and moved them to little 3oz cups were they grew until I planted them out, or moved them into baskets. Some people separate them into smaller clumps than that, but mine did just fine, they don't seem to mind being crowded together.