6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed
Wow thank you both for this information! :) No wonder lily of the valley usually seem to be started from pips.
As I live in zone 5, I can probably naturally simulate the cold and cool periods by placing the sweet violets and lily of the valley outside. (And before anyone says it, I know sweet violets are considered hardy to zone 6, but I must be in a borderline area as they've grown on my parent's property before :P )
Thanks again! :)
<For some reason, I thought they could go in quite a bit earlier than tomatoes, etc.>
That is correct but then we don't know your location so have no idea when you would normally plant your tomatoes. :) Here my peas are planted a month before I could plant any tomatoes. But that wouldn't be true for everyone.
Peas do need a cool start. They are an early spring crop. Tomatoes are not.
If you learn to measure and monitor your soil temps - since that is what counts -then you can always insure that crops are planted at the correct time.
Dave
I need to learn how to measure soil temp apparently. I have good results with the rest of my garden. I live in southeastern Washington St. People always try to plant too early in my eyes and fight the cold and wind. I wait till May 15 for tomatoes and cukes.............other stuff, carrot seed, onions, radish seeds, beets, etc I get going earlier with no problem.......however they are in raised beds and my peas are not.
Thanks, RHonda
So I have an update and I'm looking for some more guidance. The seedlings pictured here ended up dying.
However, I had some more "on deck" so I decided to test the over watering theory. I tested two separate six packs of Red Russian Kale, which seemed to be the first to have trouble last time. I watered one what at what I would consider my normal intervals, every 3-4 days when relatively dry. The other six pack though, I stretched a couple days longer, only watering when I pulled out my test cell and the soil was completely dry all the way through.
Unfortunately they both got "sick" at relatively the same time and progressed just like the last batch. However this time I noticed that the trouble starts with wet looking dark spots on some of the leaves, which makes me think bacteria. Because the Red Russian Kale seems to be the first to have problems, is it possible those seeds are contaminated somehow. Seems to be only brassicas that are having issues.
Any advice would be very helpful!
Andy - given this new info then my best guess would be some sort of fungal disease issue. But the symptoms just don't look like any of the common ones. More likely than the seeds being contaminated (which is usually viral) I'd look into the environment, the containers, the soil used, tools, surrounding things that might come into contact, even the air circulation (ie: other diseased plants in the area). It is rare indoors but possible given the right conditions for the spores to grow (moist, warm, low levels of air circulation).
Why I say fungal is that most of the common bacterial diseases don't actually kill the plants, fungal issues do kill. So what sort of ambient temps are you running in the area? Can you make it cooler? Do you have fans running to increase the air circulation and help dry things out? If not can you?
The saving grace is that all of these things can be direct seeded when the time is right for your location and they usually do much better than when grown as transplants.
Dave
The peppers will benefit greatly from a staged potting up as it triggers fibrous feeder root development just as with tomatoes and others of that family. It shouldn't be a problem as they wouldn't be planted out until well after the other things anyway.
As for the rest - a definite no on the cukes since even 1 transplanting on them can stunt them which is why they are normally direct seeded, the flowers and herbs can go either way. As long as they aren't getting rootbound in their containers they will probably be fine as is.
Dave
I wouldn't say it was really common but it does happen and can with most any thing grown from seed. Often it is just what is called a "fused stem" or two seeds that were stuck firmly together. But other times they appear normal except for the extra leaves.
I have seen it with tomatoes and several different kings of flowers. I have read some comments claiming such plants should be destroyed to maintain purity but I never have done so and found the resulting plants to be essentially normal. Let us know how this one does.
Good pics by the way. :)
Dave
Dave is right. Greenhouse can mean a lot of different things.
Like I have four of the mini-greenhouses- the four shelf things with removable covers. Depending on what time of year it is, they get used as shelves for seed starting or to hold wintersown jugs outside- or more like coldframes with the covers on outside to help with hardening off plants.
In the past, I have occasionally used a mini-greenhouse in my solarium with the cover on and hot water jugs in the bottom to overnight tomatoes and peppers if the solarium was supposed to get too chill for them. That might be closer to what you are doing. But without a proper heat mat, I wouldn't try using the mini-greenhouse as a home to start seedlings.
Thank you everyone! Yes, here's a pic of what I have. http://www.amazon.com/Gardman-R687-4-Tier-Mini-Greenhouse/dp/B000NCTGQE
I can't think of any reason to grow them inside. I think you'd have more success sowing them directly outdoors. They do better direct sown anyway as transplanting can encourage bolting. There is little risk of damping off outside and it is cheaper and easier all round.
TOO MUCH WATER., i start them indoors until they are 3/4 inch high then transplant into a PROTECTED row such as i use which is a normal row that is made just below the surface of the ground level. after the plants get 2 or 3 inches, i cut in the surrounding soil to form rows thus bringing the rows to normal levels.
On the far right you can see a finished row of seedlings which are happily growing now that they can withstand the heavy wind and rain that north florida/south georgia recives now in mid- to late march . In the center is a row that i will level then move the center to ground level making a v formation in which i will plant more seedlings. This weekend it will be in the thirtys (march 27-29th 2015) and this type of row will allow me to cover the seedlings by streching heavy plastic over the depression after putting a light mulch such as pest CAREFULLY around the seedlings.
THIS DOES WORK and i get many many beets,giving many away.
The variety I grow is the DETROIT variety which I buy from www.standardseedandfeed.com.
They are called Speedling Plug Flats, come in all sorts of cell sizes, and manufactured by Speedling Inc. several horticultural suppliers offer them for sale. But the primary purpose for them is germination only, not for growing to transplant size. And while they do happen to float that isn't why they are used - unless growing hydroponically. Soil grown seedlings aren't left to float. They are watered and then immediately removed from the water. And that is one of the big disadvantages to them - finding a tray big enough to hold the water that they will fit in.
The main advantages to them are the shape of the cells that encourage deep root growth, the insulating aspect of the foam, and the "easy-to-pop-out" plugs they produce. But all the same advantages can be obtained by using plastic plug flats and they fit into a standard 1020 tray for watering.
<One tray like that would just about do one garden.>
Only if they were all the same plant. You should never mix plants with different germination times in the same flat.
Dave
Thanks morz for letting me know that. Haven't talked to Trudi lately so didn't know things have changed.
Sunny - not sure what I said that changed your mind but the choice is yours. If tomatoes is all you are interested in then there are some good tomato varieties available as transplants, both hybrid and heirloom. You just have to live with the limited selection available.
Spraying for pests is a whole different issue and best discussed on the relevant forums. For tomatoes that would be the Growing Tomatoes forum. For other plants, the Vegetable Gardening forum here.
Pests are very plant specific so no such thing exists that covers all things. Nor should it. Since the vast majority of bugs in a garden are beneficial insects, broad-spectrum pesticides kill far more beneficial insects than bad guys. So the first rule of effective pest control is first you ID the exact pest problem and then you use the least toxic control developed for that specific pest.
Rather than using the term "chemicals" which is far too broad a label since many of the organic controls are also chemicals, indicate your preference for organic controls rather than synthetic or man-made controls.
The Organic Gardening forum here has lots of info on this point.
Dave
An easy and cheap way to improve growing conditions when working in a less that ideal area - like a cool damp basement for example - is to build a small tent out of rolled plastic around the shelf set or table you are using. That way you can easily control the environment - temps,lights, moisture levels, air circulation, etc. in that small enclosed area rather than trying to control for the whole area.
Some make their tent out of those thin foil survival blankets they sell in a packet in camping goods section at Walmart and such. That way you can also increase the reflective light.
Dave
If you look around there has been research on using spices to prevent and treat damping off. In most of what I've read chamomile isn't as effective as others such as cinnamon. Here's one http://www.plantprotection.pl/PDF/47(3)/JPPR_47(3)_05_El-Mougy_2.pdf
OP, I also know that damping off diseases can be prevented. But the moisture level is only part of the solution. If we chose a coarser, faster draining medium, then problems may never arise. Most of the germination mixes that I've seen are just awful.
Prepare the dry medium by pouring what you will need in a larger container and adding a small amount of water. After a thorough stirring, add a little more water and stir again. Never get it so wet that it drips.....it should feel barely moist.
Fill your germination flats or containers with the mix and now you can drench it. Allow the water to tamp down the mix not your fingers, drain/evaporate for several hours or overnight.
Sow the seed, sprinkling with a dusting of the dry mix if dark is needed for germination. Then, mist to seat the seed into the mix. You should never have to use your fingers to poke and prod, which compresses the medium, eliminating the oxygen.
I agree that chamomile can be steeped as a tea and misted onto the surface. If you did desire to use it as a drench, simply use it when you would ordinarily water your seedlings, not in addition. Buy a box of tea bags!
The antifungal and antibiotic properties of cinnamon have long been known.........so long that it's been forgotten and needs to be rediscovered.
I would stress that with a careful eye on your watering practices, a thoughtful selection of a germination mix, a smart choice of containers, good air circulation, and coolish temperatures, you shouldn't need to worry about cinnamon or chamomile at all.
-10 is too cold for this Mediterranean native. Keep them inside until it is at least +5 ish consistently. Make sure you harden them off before you put them outside. In the meantime keep them as cool as indoors allows. Do you have something like a glass porch or unheated room?
Worth a try using wintersowing as that may be what tricks the seeds as i have read that it can reseed itself now and then if the conditions are ideal.
Personally I have never had any luck growing it from seeds in the greenhouse but that is a totally different environment. Note that "sterile seed" doesn't mean it is impossible, just that the odds are slim. :)
Let us know if it works.
Dave
Thank you Dave. I will try wintersowing.