6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed
I wouldn't say it was really common but it does happen and can with most any thing grown from seed. Often it is just what is called a "fused stem" or two seeds that were stuck firmly together. But other times they appear normal except for the extra leaves.
I have seen it with tomatoes and several different kings of flowers. I have read some comments claiming such plants should be destroyed to maintain purity but I never have done so and found the resulting plants to be essentially normal. Let us know how this one does.
Good pics by the way. :)
Dave
Dave is right. Greenhouse can mean a lot of different things.
Like I have four of the mini-greenhouses- the four shelf things with removable covers. Depending on what time of year it is, they get used as shelves for seed starting or to hold wintersown jugs outside- or more like coldframes with the covers on outside to help with hardening off plants.
In the past, I have occasionally used a mini-greenhouse in my solarium with the cover on and hot water jugs in the bottom to overnight tomatoes and peppers if the solarium was supposed to get too chill for them. That might be closer to what you are doing. But without a proper heat mat, I wouldn't try using the mini-greenhouse as a home to start seedlings.
Thank you everyone! Yes, here's a pic of what I have. http://www.amazon.com/Gardman-R687-4-Tier-Mini-Greenhouse/dp/B000NCTGQE
I can't think of any reason to grow them inside. I think you'd have more success sowing them directly outdoors. They do better direct sown anyway as transplanting can encourage bolting. There is little risk of damping off outside and it is cheaper and easier all round.
TOO MUCH WATER., i start them indoors until they are 3/4 inch high then transplant into a PROTECTED row such as i use which is a normal row that is made just below the surface of the ground level. after the plants get 2 or 3 inches, i cut in the surrounding soil to form rows thus bringing the rows to normal levels.
On the far right you can see a finished row of seedlings which are happily growing now that they can withstand the heavy wind and rain that north florida/south georgia recives now in mid- to late march . In the center is a row that i will level then move the center to ground level making a v formation in which i will plant more seedlings. This weekend it will be in the thirtys (march 27-29th 2015) and this type of row will allow me to cover the seedlings by streching heavy plastic over the depression after putting a light mulch such as pest CAREFULLY around the seedlings.
THIS DOES WORK and i get many many beets,giving many away.
The variety I grow is the DETROIT variety which I buy from www.standardseedandfeed.com.
They are called Speedling Plug Flats, come in all sorts of cell sizes, and manufactured by Speedling Inc. several horticultural suppliers offer them for sale. But the primary purpose for them is germination only, not for growing to transplant size. And while they do happen to float that isn't why they are used - unless growing hydroponically. Soil grown seedlings aren't left to float. They are watered and then immediately removed from the water. And that is one of the big disadvantages to them - finding a tray big enough to hold the water that they will fit in.
The main advantages to them are the shape of the cells that encourage deep root growth, the insulating aspect of the foam, and the "easy-to-pop-out" plugs they produce. But all the same advantages can be obtained by using plastic plug flats and they fit into a standard 1020 tray for watering.
<One tray like that would just about do one garden.>
Only if they were all the same plant. You should never mix plants with different germination times in the same flat.
Dave
Thanks morz for letting me know that. Haven't talked to Trudi lately so didn't know things have changed.
Sunny - not sure what I said that changed your mind but the choice is yours. If tomatoes is all you are interested in then there are some good tomato varieties available as transplants, both hybrid and heirloom. You just have to live with the limited selection available.
Spraying for pests is a whole different issue and best discussed on the relevant forums. For tomatoes that would be the Growing Tomatoes forum. For other plants, the Vegetable Gardening forum here.
Pests are very plant specific so no such thing exists that covers all things. Nor should it. Since the vast majority of bugs in a garden are beneficial insects, broad-spectrum pesticides kill far more beneficial insects than bad guys. So the first rule of effective pest control is first you ID the exact pest problem and then you use the least toxic control developed for that specific pest.
Rather than using the term "chemicals" which is far too broad a label since many of the organic controls are also chemicals, indicate your preference for organic controls rather than synthetic or man-made controls.
The Organic Gardening forum here has lots of info on this point.
Dave
An easy and cheap way to improve growing conditions when working in a less that ideal area - like a cool damp basement for example - is to build a small tent out of rolled plastic around the shelf set or table you are using. That way you can easily control the environment - temps,lights, moisture levels, air circulation, etc. in that small enclosed area rather than trying to control for the whole area.
Some make their tent out of those thin foil survival blankets they sell in a packet in camping goods section at Walmart and such. That way you can also increase the reflective light.
Dave
If you look around there has been research on using spices to prevent and treat damping off. In most of what I've read chamomile isn't as effective as others such as cinnamon. Here's one http://www.plantprotection.pl/PDF/47(3)/JPPR_47(3)_05_El-Mougy_2.pdf
OP, I also know that damping off diseases can be prevented. But the moisture level is only part of the solution. If we chose a coarser, faster draining medium, then problems may never arise. Most of the germination mixes that I've seen are just awful.
Prepare the dry medium by pouring what you will need in a larger container and adding a small amount of water. After a thorough stirring, add a little more water and stir again. Never get it so wet that it drips.....it should feel barely moist.
Fill your germination flats or containers with the mix and now you can drench it. Allow the water to tamp down the mix not your fingers, drain/evaporate for several hours or overnight.
Sow the seed, sprinkling with a dusting of the dry mix if dark is needed for germination. Then, mist to seat the seed into the mix. You should never have to use your fingers to poke and prod, which compresses the medium, eliminating the oxygen.
I agree that chamomile can be steeped as a tea and misted onto the surface. If you did desire to use it as a drench, simply use it when you would ordinarily water your seedlings, not in addition. Buy a box of tea bags!
The antifungal and antibiotic properties of cinnamon have long been known.........so long that it's been forgotten and needs to be rediscovered.
I would stress that with a careful eye on your watering practices, a thoughtful selection of a germination mix, a smart choice of containers, good air circulation, and coolish temperatures, you shouldn't need to worry about cinnamon or chamomile at all.
-10 is too cold for this Mediterranean native. Keep them inside until it is at least +5 ish consistently. Make sure you harden them off before you put them outside. In the meantime keep them as cool as indoors allows. Do you have something like a glass porch or unheated room?
Well jeez. Of course plants take up water with their roots, Mother Nature doesn't grow in containers, and we have drip trays! What I was getting at is....in their native environment, plants are exposed to water from above ALL THE TIME. Top watering doesn't kill plants, we humans do :)
Good info from Trev - another transplanting is needed for those plants as they are very likely already getting root bound in those cells. And based on the info you posted about dates it would at least another month from now before you could safely transplants the tomatoes and another 6 weeks for the peppers - depending on the weather of course.
Otherwise they are looking good - just crowded.
Dave
Thank you for the feedback. I have never had seedlings this healthy before so this is a whole new learning curve for me lol. So I will likely pot up again either tomorrow or by mid week next week. Do you think Solo cups would be large enough to sustain them until transplant time or do I need to get something a little larger? I am trying to get them less crowded, work in progress :)
Also, I have a cold frame built. It is made of wood and has a glass screen door as the top. Is this something that could be reasonably used for my tomatoes to be placed in say about March 30 until I can transplant them into the garden? The only other time I used the cold frame was in 2012 when I had large seedlings, but that was an expectionally warm year for us and frost just wasn't a concern that year (just the hailstorms...). BTW, I would only put them in the cold frame once they have been hardened off adequately.
If this is not a good option, I can still keep them inside but the hours of lighting would probably have to be reduced to about 8-9 hours a day instead of 12 because I would have more flats to rotate under my lights. I only have 2 light sets that are 4' long, but placed together to be wide enough to cover the whole flat. I've never had this problem, which is why I don't have more lights. That will be something I invest in next year though lol.
About my planting dates: those were frost dates I was able to find. I did notice I planted my tomatoes on April 26 last year though. According to the NC planting guide issued by the NC agriculture people they say tomatoes and peppers can be planted between 4/15-5/10 in eastern NC which is where I live. The only problem with that is I know it covers a large area with greatly varying frost dates. So I am thinking now to plant my tomatoes after 4/20 and peppers after 5/1. I think just for fun though I am going to pick 2-4 varieties I don't mind possibly losing and plant them out in the garden by 4/1 just to see what happens. I don't mind experimenting a little :)
Once again, thank you for your advice and recommendations! I truly appreciate it.
Dawn - zone 7B or 8 not sure, in eastern NC
First, I wouldn't buy that mat. It is way over-priced and especially so for one that requires an additional thermostat for control. Second, yes you likely could accomplish the same thing as long as you have the time to closely monitor the soil temps and adjust accordingly. However that would require VERY close monitoring as the temps can rise into seed-killing zones within minutes, not hours, as the mat is responding to ambient air temps not soil temps.
Cool ambient air and the mat just keeps sending more and more heat into the soil as it tries to warm the surrounding air. And in warm ambient air conditions the mat just sits there doing nothing so the soil temps can fall into stopping germination zones just as quickly.
For those reasons a thermostat control is a great benefit to both you and the plants. Honestly, it can make all the difference in seed survival, germination rates, and germination times.
But there are much less expensive options available, some with built-in thermostats and some with much cheaper thermostats. Soil heating cables with a built in therm (auto set at 72) lightly tacked to a piece of foam or wood with the trays set on top of it can be had in many lengths for approx. $35-40 and last for years. Hydrofarm and Gro-Mat make several sizes of mats all of which can be very well controlled with a $30 thermostat. We use several of the Gro-Mats in the greenhouses https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/gro-mat/heat-mats-chambers
all of them controlled by this thermostat https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/thermostat-for-seedling-mat/heat-mats-chambers
and have for years with no issues. Using these has the advantage over the heating cables of being able to set higher temps for peppers and such.
Dave
Hi Trev,
I agree with what Dave said about the apparent over-pricing. There is one thing however that you probably need to understand better. The thermostat you referred to does not require 750 watts to operate :-) A thermostat is basically just an automatic switch that requires little or no wattage. The 750 watts, mentioned in the ad, means that the thermostat can safely control external devices that use up to 750 watts. The mat you referred to uses only 150 watts.
Hope this is helpful,
Art
The peppers will benefit greatly from a staged potting up as it triggers fibrous feeder root development just as with tomatoes and others of that family. It shouldn't be a problem as they wouldn't be planted out until well after the other things anyway.
As for the rest - a definite no on the cukes since even 1 transplanting on them can stunt them which is why they are normally direct seeded, the flowers and herbs can go either way. As long as they aren't getting rootbound in their containers they will probably be fine as is.
Dave
Great, thanks! Good to know about the cucumbers. I'll remember that.