6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed

I also hate those peat containers. They don't keep moisture. I grow flowers so I'm not an expert with the seeds you have started but with flowers I thin them out (cut/pull the smaller ones) when the seedlings are about an inch tall.

I am no expert and don't know if there is an exact time to snip back or not. For me it depended on how many seedlings I had in a cell. With no rhyme or reason I often cut back to two in each cell before potting up. After potting up I waited to see which was more vigorous then snipped the other off. Lately I have been either planting in flats or only planting one seed per cell so haven't had to snip back.

Happy spring planting!!

I hate buying pre-mix formulas because they are the same ingredients we can buy separately and mix together for alot less cost.

I'm sorry but that just isn't accurate. It is much more complex than just stirring together random amounts of ingredients. Quality commercial mixes are based on well-researched recipes, carefully pH balanced, and have wetting agents and stabilizers added to them and then sterilized. Cost is relative if one makes their own mix but then loses all their plants, right?

Professional quality mixes such as ProMix BX and Metro Mix 360 can be purchased in whole bales for much less than the cost of the equivalent number of bags of components and have 3x the benefits. So no, I can never recommend making your own seed starting mix. Make your own growing mix for established plants if you wish, but not for seed starting.

GH environmental management is a science and managing differs greatly from house to house even when they are right next to each other like mine. Automatic, thermostat controlled systems is the most effective way to accomplish it but even they have limitations and can be expensive.

You can learn much more about GH management over on that forum rather than here but you need to do everything you can to stabilize your temp range without sacrificing light exposure. The ideal goal for growing plants is no less than 45 at night and no more than 65-70 in the day. Germination trays are kept in a separate enclosure in the GH to allow for increased soil heating and yes the flats are removed from soil heating ASAp as germination begins. The remaining will either germinate shortly or they never would have anyway..

Auto systems include such things as auto sun screens set to a thermostat that unfold and contract as needed, sectional sunscreens that provide heavier screening on the west side than on the east or overhead rather than on the sides depending on how the house is situated, auto vent openers, auto exhaust fans, evaporative coolers on thermostats, auto heaters if needed, etc. In other words the more automatic you can make the systems the better.

Hope this is of help.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks so much. What you say makes sence. Germination mix is alot more important than growing mix, isn't it?

45* at night....Really??!! Brrrr. And keeping the hse at 70* or below during the day would be impossible with the set up I have now. I need to revamp my whole seed-starting process starting with temperature management, don't I? Automatic everything would be very cost prohibitive, so I need to figure out something. It makes sence too, what you wrote: greenhouse operations have different sections for germinating and growing...I'm thinking of turning my spare bedroom into a small germination room, and leave the greenhouse just for growing on.

Thanks again.

Do you have seeds to spare that you could dissect a couple and investigate the interior, see if they are fully formed seeds?

I don't know why yours would be spilling their seeds this time of year, cones on Spanish fir don't usually remain on the tree when they should have ripened by fall as with some conifers that more typically hang onto theirs :).

See if this site - Oregon State edu. - helps. There's a photo of Spring (pollen) cones, then if you click next on the right at the top of the picture it shows SF cones that have ripened at the end of the season.

If you find your tree hasn't given you empty or partially formed seeds, you could always try sowing, nothing to lose. Day/night temps that will average about 40 probably best and it's beginning to get a little late (though not by much) for that here in WA, your refrigerator could extend a moist chill of 3-4 weeks. Bring back to warmer for germination.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oregon State spanish fir

Thanks again for the further info...I actually pushed on one of the seeds, it was squishy and when I popped it open what appeared as tree sap came out! Maybe not a fully formed seed. It's a young tree so I assumed I wouldn't be able to get good seeds off of it. The Spanish Fir is a cool tree though, I'll probably plant a couple more soon!

Frankly, I don't think you're going to have much luck germinating those seeds, they're just too old. Hardly any vegetable seed will be viable after 4 or 5 years (see link to chart below). It might be fun to try though and if you do decide to go for it, I wish you the best of luck.

Art

Here is a link that might be useful: Life Expectancy of Vegetable Seeds

Definitely should try it and report back to us. Soak them overnight, some say in soak in tea. Plant in moist sand, cover and keep at about 70OF.

If you really want the or think they may have value search university web sites for assistance. They may know to use something called gibbelenes.

1) For the things you list, yes.

2) That is your only choice when you use one of those kits - cutting them apart. That's why using individual containers for each variety is what is recommended.

3) There is no set formula or schedule since there are too many variables. You water as each plant needs it. In those small cells need will vary greatly. Once they are transplanted into proper containers, less watering is required.

4) It's ok but growth will be slower As mentioned to you before, most enclose the seed starting area in some fashion - many easy ways to do it - as gives you much better control over air temps and humidity than trying to maintain the whole garage.

5) No other option but more lights. I recall it was mentioned before that is a well documented problem with using only 2' set-up like this.

6) Definitely. Which is another reason why those kits are not recommended. Those small cells are for germination only, not growing in. Any plant will quickly become rootbound in them. All of them will need to be transplanted at least once and some more than once.

Dave

Dave,

Once again, thanks for your attentive responses. Everyday I am learning something new. I really do appreciate it and would buy you a drink if I could.

1) What's the worse that will happen because I planted too soon? Won't I just start with larger than normal transplants in the garden?

2) What types of containers would you have recommended instead of those kits? Obviously that would mean I would plant fewer items so they could all fit under the same 2-foot growing light. My garage space is limited so expanding my makeshift nursery at this point is not something I am considering (maybe next year depending on the yield I get this year)

3) Understood, but would a good rule of thumb be basically whenever the top of the soil appears dry?

4) So in my case, the cool temps in my garage work out in my favor since I planted a bit too early, right? Or are you implying long-term growth will be stunted?

5) I guess I'll cross that bridge if I ever get to it. I'll regularly post pics in this forum to show my progress.

6) When do you know its time? And is transplanting as simple as using a larger container with the same soil? Why do garden centers sell ready-to-plant seedlings in the same size 6-pack containers that I am using?

SusanZone5, thanks for the link to that guide. I will check it out.

Ipomoea Quamoclit is indeed called by the common name Humming Bird Vine. Check out the site below

lhttp://www.ehow.com/how_8190274_grow-hummingbird-plant-seed.html

Thanks for the info. I will show him a picture. The plant does look like what he described but the seeds just don't look the same. He gave me an Aspirin bottle half full of the tiny seeds so I think I'll sow a few and see what happens!

It isn't just the number of the hours. It is also the lumens and the type of the bulbs you are using. 4' T12 bulbs with 3200 lumens are usually recommended for 16 on and 8 off. But how close to the plants are they? That is even more important than the time. No more than 1-1 1/2" above the tops of the plants.

If you are using T5 bulbs the hours are the same but they can be 2-3" above.

And don't ignore the heat factor too. Assuming they were removed from any heat mat as soon as they germinated as is required then even with sufficient light, warm air temps in the area add to the problems. 60-65 degrees is considered ideal. If they are in an area where the air temps are over 70 they may get leggy. Above 75 they definitely will.

Dave

I'm thinking that heat may be a problem I'm having too. After seeds sprout...would it be fine for them to grow at temps below 55 or 60? My seedlings that stay cool do not seem to grow at all...but they do stay alive....which is more than I can say for the ones I'm trying to keep warmer. The problem with my MT spring weather is too cold, or too hot...never just right. On over-cast days the temp can stay around freezing, so I use supplemental heat...but when the sun peaks out....even on cold days....my greenhouse quickly surpasses the 100 degree mark. I wonder if it's because of elevation? It's a problem I haven't been able to solve.

John - did you read the FAQ I linked above? It explains how to move from one container to another. Also read the one called "How to grow tomatoes from seed."

Starting a seed in a big pot and leaving it there isn't the best way to go as it can cause all sorts of problems for the tiny plant. And tomatoes benefit greatly from being transplanted from a small container once they germinate to a little bigger pot. Doing that is what triggers them into developing the feeder roots they need.

Dave

thanks everyone for the help i successfully re potted them

Your re-written question is much more informative than the original was. And i agree, except I would dispute the last part:

Because no one stopped to engage perezjuanf in a conversation, we might have lost this new person (member since 3/15). perezjuanf put alot of thought and effort behind what he did and no one even asked him to discuss what he did.

Including questions, asking for additional information, as I did in my original post is usually seen as an accepted method of engaging a person in conversation.

I continue to hope that perezjuanf will reply to those questions but many new members never do reply or come back because either they got all the info they wanted or don't understand how a discussion forum works or they neglect to check their spam email box for replies. That is their choice.

Meanwhile it is clear from the pics that the medium used is one of the common potting mixes with additional perlite sprinkled on top - a fairly common recommendation but one that works better with vermiculite since it retains moisture more. Not using a cover over the containers is fine IF the humidity in the enclosure can be maintained.

Dave

Good points Dave. I'll revise my answer.
Regarding, "Not using a cover over the containers is fine IF the humidity in the enclosure can be maintained. "
I had great germination percentages and grow out this year. Almost finished transplanting everything. Going after a third round soon.
My trays are outside. The humidity varied between 23% and 100%.
The temperature varied between 38 degrees and 82 degrees.
Granted if someone raises seedlings inside where the air is constantly dry that is another issue.

This post was edited by bugbite on Mon, Apr 1, 13 at 13:37

The 2 most frequently recommended potting mixes are both professional mixes but are also available to the public - ProMix BX and Metro Mix 360. They are often only available through local nurseries or ordered online unless you happen to have a growers supply of some sort near you.

If those aren't available then there are literally 100 online sources for high quality mixes that are much better than those available from the big box stores.

Google 'soil-less potting mix' and 'seed starting mix'. EB Stone, Johnny's, Farfard, Fox Farm, etc. just to name a few.

Dave

I will second plaidbirds comment on Miracle Grow soil coming with gnats. Last spring I used that and Schultz soil and had enough gnats in the house to fry for supper! Eeeww! This year I am using only Pro-mix. I was all set with an arsenal of yellow sticky tape, and mosquito doughnuts, but have not had need of them so far. I planted my first batch of seeds February 14.
I do have a problem with some petunias, eggplant, and basil growing with yellow leaves. I believe the Pro-mix has no nutrients, so I have been adding very weak fertilizer. Today I switched to Miracid at 1/2 strength, bottom watering. If that doesn't work I will find some iron to add.