6,340 Garden Web Discussions | Growing from Seed
It isn't just the number of the hours. It is also the lumens and the type of the bulbs you are using. 4' T12 bulbs with 3200 lumens are usually recommended for 16 on and 8 off. But how close to the plants are they? That is even more important than the time. No more than 1-1 1/2" above the tops of the plants.
If you are using T5 bulbs the hours are the same but they can be 2-3" above.
And don't ignore the heat factor too. Assuming they were removed from any heat mat as soon as they germinated as is required then even with sufficient light, warm air temps in the area add to the problems. 60-65 degrees is considered ideal. If they are in an area where the air temps are over 70 they may get leggy. Above 75 they definitely will.
Dave
I'm thinking that heat may be a problem I'm having too. After seeds sprout...would it be fine for them to grow at temps below 55 or 60? My seedlings that stay cool do not seem to grow at all...but they do stay alive....which is more than I can say for the ones I'm trying to keep warmer. The problem with my MT spring weather is too cold, or too hot...never just right. On over-cast days the temp can stay around freezing, so I use supplemental heat...but when the sun peaks out....even on cold days....my greenhouse quickly surpasses the 100 degree mark. I wonder if it's because of elevation? It's a problem I haven't been able to solve.
Bottom watering is the recommended method. Top watering tends to cause shallow rooting of the plants and often isn't sufficient.
Just set the pot in a container of water for 20-30 mins (often less depending on the potting mix used) and let it soak up what it needs then remove it or dump the remaining water.
Dave
John - did you read the FAQ I linked above? It explains how to move from one container to another. Also read the one called "How to grow tomatoes from seed."
Starting a seed in a big pot and leaving it there isn't the best way to go as it can cause all sorts of problems for the tiny plant. And tomatoes benefit greatly from being transplanted from a small container once they germinate to a little bigger pot. Doing that is what triggers them into developing the feeder roots they need.
Dave
Your re-written question is much more informative than the original was. And i agree, except I would dispute the last part:
Because no one stopped to engage perezjuanf in a conversation, we might have lost this new person (member since 3/15). perezjuanf put alot of thought and effort behind what he did and no one even asked him to discuss what he did.
Including questions, asking for additional information, as I did in my original post is usually seen as an accepted method of engaging a person in conversation.
I continue to hope that perezjuanf will reply to those questions but many new members never do reply or come back because either they got all the info they wanted or don't understand how a discussion forum works or they neglect to check their spam email box for replies. That is their choice.
Meanwhile it is clear from the pics that the medium used is one of the common potting mixes with additional perlite sprinkled on top - a fairly common recommendation but one that works better with vermiculite since it retains moisture more. Not using a cover over the containers is fine IF the humidity in the enclosure can be maintained.
Dave
Good points Dave. I'll revise my answer.
Regarding, "Not using a cover over the containers is fine IF the humidity in the enclosure can be maintained. "
I had great germination percentages and grow out this year. Almost finished transplanting everything. Going after a third round soon.
My trays are outside. The humidity varied between 23% and 100%.
The temperature varied between 38 degrees and 82 degrees.
Granted if someone raises seedlings inside where the air is constantly dry that is another issue.
This post was edited by bugbite on Mon, Apr 1, 13 at 13:37
No you do not need to buy lights. Everything you have planted except the Tomatoes and basil are perennials and should be fine. The basil and tomatoes could benefit from a little higher nighttime temperatures. You could cover the containers with a blanket at night and remove it in the morning.
I would bring the tomatoes and basil imnside at night until you have higher nighttime temperatures.
You also might want to transplant the tomatoes into separate containers so the roots don't get entangled. I use colored 16 oz disposable glasses which have holes punched in the bottom. Sink your tomatoes into the ground up to the leaves. They will grow roots all along the stem. This action is particular to tomatoes and nothing else.
I would say the plants aren't growing because of the nighttime temperatures. The perennials are slower growing and can tolerate lower temperatures but the basil and tomatoes are tenderer plants and could do with a bit extra heat at night
The best Shastas I have are ones that I took the pack of seeds and dumped them in the garden. They have been growing great for three years now. It probably wouldn't hurt to go ahead and plant the daisies. They are hardy and do best when left alone and not babied too much. I am not an expert just sharing my experience. I don't know anything about the rest if the plants you mentioned but I assume as long as they aren't getting leggy they just need some time and like the previous poster stated some more warmth at night.
Zinnias and green beans can be direct planted outdoors but they both need it to be warm before you plant them, whether started indoors or out. In your zone, wait till the end of May to start outdoors. These seeds need warm soil.
There are websites that have lists of how many weeks before last frost (May 15 in your zone) plants should be started, or if you need to wait till after last frost. They are a big help. Also, the back of the seed packet often contains this info.
The 2 most frequently recommended potting mixes are both professional mixes but are also available to the public - ProMix BX and Metro Mix 360. They are often only available through local nurseries or ordered online unless you happen to have a growers supply of some sort near you.
If those aren't available then there are literally 100 online sources for high quality mixes that are much better than those available from the big box stores.
Google 'soil-less potting mix' and 'seed starting mix'. EB Stone, Johnny's, Farfard, Fox Farm, etc. just to name a few.
Dave
I will second plaidbirds comment on Miracle Grow soil coming with gnats. Last spring I used that and Schultz soil and had enough gnats in the house to fry for supper! Eeeww! This year I am using only Pro-mix. I was all set with an arsenal of yellow sticky tape, and mosquito doughnuts, but have not had need of them so far. I planted my first batch of seeds February 14.
I do have a problem with some petunias, eggplant, and basil growing with yellow leaves. I believe the Pro-mix has no nutrients, so I have been adding very weak fertilizer. Today I switched to Miracid at 1/2 strength, bottom watering. If that doesn't work I will find some iron to add.
I couldn't make out the picture for "early signs of toxicity", but I can tell you that my marigolds last year had spots and I was worried about it. I posted about the problem and I got tons of conflicting info.
All I can say is that I still don't know what it was. The spots were perfectly spaced on the leaves and if I had not known better, I would have thought it was the normal design of the leaf.
I kept them quarantined and they all grew up normally, produced normal flowers and did no harm to any plants I planted them next to.
I am still curious as to what it is, but frankly as long as the plant remains healthy, I would assume it is harmless. Of course, if the plant changes colors, yellows, dies or gets stunted etc.....I'd trash them.
I grow marigolds from this company (link below) which are the finest marigolds I have ever grown (their marigolds like Narai and Bali, not the others they also provide.) Click the "Pest Management" tab to a link to their descrption of problems. There are three tabs at the top of that page.
It is funny when I say that I grow marigolds people many times say, Yes, and I hear that marigolds chase pests from the garden. (something like that). You only have to look at the pests that commerical growers face to realize that only a very few ward off pests, like Guardian.
Here is a link that might be useful: Best Marigolds
The way I started was by reading a book called Seed Starting. Books have all the info. Then I found a list of seed starting needs of all plants, annuals, perennials, that gives adates before last frost, light, depth, temperature requirements, etc. for each seed.
Start reading and taking notes.
" a simple and complete A to Z guide"
Believe it or not that is just what we tried to do with the FAQs here. A great deal of time and effort went into writing them. Are they perfect? Of course not. Just as with raising children, a perfect guide would be impossible. But they do cover all the basic questions that come up her.
Yet some just don't want to use them much less use the forum search button to review all the info here about how to use heat mats, the problems created by domes, why using the kits over-complicates the process, what lights are needed and why, how and when to thin, how and when to transplant, how and when to fertilize, the effects of air temps on seedlings, etc. etc.etc.
Instead they prefer to have us take the time to rehash all that info just for them, and some points have to stated multiple times for some reason.
And that is fine IF they first at least make the effort to review all the info that is already available and make sure that their question has not already been answered in detail.
No one has been "hit hard" but yes, sometimes impatience bleeds through in posts. Sure it takes time to do research, but it also takes time to rehash something over and over. And time has the same value to all of us.
Dave
Hi Danielle,
I am growing broccoli and cauliflower seedlings. Regards to the first two leafs going brown. I though it was the result of dampening off. As the base stem started to go white. But after I added a fan the first leafs didn't bounce back. I am now wondering if the led lights might have been too close first up.
Regards,
tim
Start over with fresh, bagged seed starting mix. Keep plants in separate cells to begin with. Water from the bottom and don't feed till they get some leaves (follow Dave's info above). Don't add anything but water. Remove from heat after germination.
Set the lights about an inch away from plants and don't cover them. Too much love isn't what they need. lol.
This post was edited by susanzone5 on Sun, Mar 31, 13 at 12:18
I would like to clarify I had the trays in the kitchen
"Windowsill" is just a term used to distinguish between trying to grow using only natural light vs. providing supplemental lighting.
The distinction is between any sort of window light - light just from outside sources vs. using supplemental indoor light.
Even greenhouses use supplemental lighting this time of year.
Dave
I live in Melbourne , Australia , I decided to grow some seeds purchased from ebay , I bought some cuban mahogany , ylang ylang and poinciana . All tropicals , its getting into mid Autumn here and temperatures are ranging from about 10 degrees celcius to about 24 . ( too low for germination ) So out from the garage I brought my "ecko hostess carousel " food warmer . After soaking the seeds in small medicine containers with water, I wore these so as to stay warm with my body heat for 24 hours. Then put them into small trays with potting mix , into the hostess carousel . Due to the fact there is no timer or thermostat , well I think I might have cooked them , the temps must have got up around 50 degrees centigrade . Anyway I just had a look , the potting mix is erupting ! I can see a poinciana pushing its way up through the soil. It took 3 days to germinate . Is that normal ? these poinciana's are very tough cookies .
The funniest thing happened at the potting bench today. As I was doing things like getting these baby Oregon Irises into pots to grow on, I found a couple more starts..but not in the original pot I've been saving all this time. Apparently I either dropped a few of these seeds nearby, or maybe another years seeds ( normally saved in the same location ) got in the 'to be used soil' mix ( my soil mixes are in 33 gal garbage cans), or ? No idea what happened or what vintage the newly found starts are, but they are smaller and just germinated in the last day or so.
The original ones I told you about are now spread out into little pots, and the interesting thing is how long the roots are. They were all about 6 inches long, with the shoots of the plants varying from maybe 1/2 " to 6 ". Bright white, strong, and looking like they want to be in a damp environment. Interesting since the mother plant is in well drained, moist but sometimes dry soil. And each and everyone of the new babies is holding on strongly to it's seed. Shoot, seed, root.. like they each are holding a little purse. :) The seeds never budged as I split the plants apart and fussed with things.
Plus, I found this is my old bookmarks, that' I'd forgotten about, and not looked up irises before.How did I miss this ? It's very specific for temps etc.
Quote:
Iris barbata, bucharica, bulleyana, chamaeiris, chrysographes, foetidissima, forrestii, graminea, hollandica, illyrica, kamaonensis, kaempferi, lactea, laevigata, magnifica, missouriensis, orientalis, paradoxa, pseudacorus, pseudocaucasica, pumila, reichenbachii, sanguinea, sari, setosa, sibirica, sintenisii, spuria, tectorum, tenax, variegata, versicolor, virginica, and xiphioides ,
Impervious seed coats. Shake in dry sharp sand or nick carefully with a file. Sow at 18-22úC (64-71úF) for 2-4 wks, move to -4 to +4úC (24-39úF) for 4-6 wks, move to 5-12úC (41-53úF) for germination
Here is a link that might be useful: http://tomclothier.hort.net/page03.html#i
1) For the things you list, yes.
2) That is your only choice when you use one of those kits - cutting them apart. That's why using individual containers for each variety is what is recommended.
3) There is no set formula or schedule since there are too many variables. You water as each plant needs it. In those small cells need will vary greatly. Once they are transplanted into proper containers, less watering is required.
4) It's ok but growth will be slower As mentioned to you before, most enclose the seed starting area in some fashion - many easy ways to do it - as gives you much better control over air temps and humidity than trying to maintain the whole garage.
5) No other option but more lights. I recall it was mentioned before that is a well documented problem with using only 2' set-up like this.
6) Definitely. Which is another reason why those kits are not recommended. Those small cells are for germination only, not growing in. Any plant will quickly become rootbound in them. All of them will need to be transplanted at least once and some more than once.
Dave
Dave,
Once again, thanks for your attentive responses. Everyday I am learning something new. I really do appreciate it and would buy you a drink if I could.
1) What's the worse that will happen because I planted too soon? Won't I just start with larger than normal transplants in the garden?
2) What types of containers would you have recommended instead of those kits? Obviously that would mean I would plant fewer items so they could all fit under the same 2-foot growing light. My garage space is limited so expanding my makeshift nursery at this point is not something I am considering (maybe next year depending on the yield I get this year)
3) Understood, but would a good rule of thumb be basically whenever the top of the soil appears dry?
4) So in my case, the cool temps in my garage work out in my favor since I planted a bit too early, right? Or are you implying long-term growth will be stunted?
5) I guess I'll cross that bridge if I ever get to it. I'll regularly post pics in this forum to show my progress.
6) When do you know its time? And is transplanting as simple as using a larger container with the same soil? Why do garden centers sell ready-to-plant seedlings in the same size 6-pack containers that I am using?
SusanZone5, thanks for the link to that guide. I will check it out.