mensplace, your observations are spot on. First, the swollen tips are Oriental fruit moth larvae that burrowed into the succulent tips. The OFM larvae overwinter there for next season so Clip those tips off and bury them. The worm by the pit is also OFM, probably the second OFM generation of the season. In Georgia's long growing season there are several OFM cycles, egg, larvae, Moth. The fungus is called Brown rot and is most devastating to peaches. But the remedies are 'simple know how' and correct spray application. Some folks here bag their fruit, some are mostly organic, but the consensus is that one needs synthetic sprays to beat back the diseases enough to get a decent crop. You should search the message board threads on 'bagging' 'kocide' 'copper spray''brown rot' 'OFM' 'open vase'(pruning), 'Immunox' 'surround' '

Mensplace:

I agree with Ace's diagnosis of oriental fruit moth (OFM), which has two modes of operation on peaches; eggs laid on the fruits themselves, and also on growing branch tips. You do not necessarily need to spray all year long, particularly in the dormant season, but you should attempt to time your sprays so that they are most effective.

The swollen branch tips and the larvae in the peaches are both indicators of OFM, which, where you and I live, can have as many as 4 generations. OFM penetrations on young peaches also usually leave a small blob of pectin on the surface, and when you see that you should remove the peach promptly. You may not need an arsenal of sprays, but you do need the right sprays at the right time. I apply both fixed copper and dormant oil to both stone and pome fruits, but usually only two applications; one on a warm day in about late February, and again just before bud break.

OFM moves in from outside your orchard as well as from within, and requires an effective insecticidal growing season spray, applied as often as your insect presssures require. I find that if I protect peaches early, say at least for the first six weeks following fruit set, I can often stop spraying as the skins harden up and become less attractive to the OFM. Combination fruit tree sprays, which usually contain weak amounts of sevin, malathion, and captan, are the least effective sprays you can buy. Try imidan if you can get it, and if not, permethrin, which is widely sold and effective against OFM. I know there are others that may also be effective, but sevin and malathion are not.

Late rots on peaches, often called "brown rot", are sometimes more difficult to deal with and if your problems ae not severe you are lucky. Rots often enter the points provided by insect penetration, but can also occur spontaneously. Your dormant sprays of copper can help control the overwintering fungi that cause brown rot, but I find it necessary to use a systemic product called "Orbit" during the growing season to control it, and usually make two applications not long before harvest. I understand that Immunox is a very effective alternative.

You don't have to religiously follow the recommendations of university websites. Use your own frequent observations of the trees, and your own experiences to make judgments on what and when to apply.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Don and Ace gave you some good advice. There is no magic spray schedule because pest pressures are different for different areas (or from year to year) but you've been given some good guidelines.

Regarding your other questions. Organic sprays are not nearly as effective as synthetic, as synthetics are actually engineered to target the pests you're after. Some on this forum have had success with Surround, but it seems it must be applied at pretty tight intervals. Things like sodium bicarbonate, dormant oil, and copper are not going to do anything for the problems you're experiencing.

In terms of what are the least poisonous pesticides, that is hard to say. However, do not assume organic means safest. My Kocide 3000 (copper) has an LD50 value (oral) of around 1800 mg/kg, whereas most of the other stuff I spray has an LD50 value of 3000 or greater (the higher the LD50, the less risk for acute toxicity.) On another listserv called Apple-Crop, and a grower mentioned that one of his workers had to go to the emergency room due to spraying sulfur.

In general, newer pesticides are safer than older. Immunox and permethrin will probably work for you. Montery Fungi fighter (Orbit) and Triazicide Once and Done (similar to permethrin) are also good choices that are widely available. Permethrin is considered much safer to humans than carbaryl or Imidan, although I have nothing against their use. All will cause some collateral damage to friendly insects.

In terms of poisons the main problem is to kill the OFM you need to poison them. Most of the disease sprays are relatively much less poisonous; the acute toxicity is also not the main problem, it is the long-term effects such as cancer plus damage to the environment.

I don't use poison to kill the OFM but its a lot more work without poison. I would say the easiest poison-free way is to purchase cotton drawstring bags which you then need to tie around every baby peach so the OFM can't get to it; the 5x7 bags work on small/medium sizes of peach. I have used this method for several years and it works. The downside is it takes a lot of time to tie up all those bags, and the bags will make the fruits a bit more prone to rot. They are also pretty expensive, around 25 cents per bag. Depending on how well-made they are they may be re-used for several years.

Scott

Being the "dormant" season here in Georgia (though you can already see the buds beginning to swell a bit) my first task seems to be a dormant spray with a mixture of insecticide, oil, and fungicide..maybe two sprays to assure good coverage and being sure to spray the ground around all fruit trees. Real bud swelling really takes place in mid march, so a later spraying then before any blooming with the same combination. Buds begin to show some pink in late march..so a couple of sprays of insecticide and fungicide. Then the buds begin to break in late March, so weekly sprays from then on until harvest of insecticide and fungicide. Bagging is not an option with so many trees and varieties of fruit.

mensplace,

Dormant spray consists of copper mixed with oil or sticker.

Use insecticide and fungicide starting at green tip.

It is not necessary to spray the ground, it usually gets some overspray. Pick up old fruit mummies, rake leaves or cover with mulch.. Open center prune to allow light and air penetration.

Mensplace,

If OFM is your main problem, you really don't even need to start using insectides till after shuck split. I would also say that weekly sprays of insecticide and fungicide might be overdoing it. A lot of products will last two weeks with a sticker. However, a significant amount of rain will wash most pesticides off.

Scott,

Although there is certainly a linkage between some pesticides and cancer in a lab, with rodents under high exposures, there doesn't seem to be a linkage of cancer and the person applying the pesticides (excluding obvious nasties like Agent Orange). In the following link, although the title is a bit provocative, the author points out that many studies have shown applicators have lower rates of cancer, leading some to believe that low doses of pesticides may have a slightly chemotherapic effect.

Here is a link that might be useful: Article by Dominic Lawson

OLPEA,
I don't know that my main problem is simply OFM, as I have seen entire trees loaded with fruit hit with Brown Rot and have all of the fruit ruined quickly. Too, there probably are other insect pests as well. Too, the soil itself here is heavy clay that is slow to drain and the summers extremely hot and humid. I DO prune to the proper vase shape for open centers with peaches and a staggered ladder system for apples and others. Fire blight is a constant pain with the pears and apples. If I fertilize a pear tree here, it is an open invitation to massive fireblight. The apples frequently develop the moths that wrap themselves in the leaves...and I have sprayed and pruned every year. Still, the plethora of poisons and extremely complex spray schedules of the ag sites are overwhelmingly complex. I was essentially looking to nip it in the bud this year and address all fungus, disease, nemeatode, and insect problems through an early and consistently implemented spray schedule, but with as little long term residual poison as possible, hence my consideration of some organics. Apparently, most here do not think them feasable. So, from what I read above it seems that an early and consistently implemented program is the only truly effective route. Apparently, my reliance on older sulfur, oil, lime mixes are not adequate...which took us to which poisons/fungides WILL work. I don't have access to the sprays of commercial orchardists. I had thought that applying fungides along with poison now would help even in the dormant season. Apparently that is wrong. However, I have for years seen the insects hitting those swelling buds in mid March, long before flowering. Last year there were NO bees, which ultimately was a non-issue as a late freeze here in GA killed all blossoms of everything. Not one fruit last year. I have already made one application of dormant oil. I will do another in February as I have the lime sulfur and oil already. After February, as those buds swell I need to begin the fungicides and insecticides before the initial round of egg laying and to kill all ground and tree borne funguses, viruses, and all the other microorganisms. Too, I will probably have to find a Bartow County, GA based beekeeper or install my own hive.

I can sympathize with your heavy pest pressure. I guess I would expect as much from GA. Same story here. Still, since GA known for growing beautiful peaches, I'd say your success isn't far out of reach.

Most commercial spray guides recommend an average spray interval of 10 days to two weeks. Practically speaking, rain wash off forces me to spray about once a week during the wet part of the season. Still, I wouldn't automatically assume you have to spray weekly. One problem you're going to face is that with such a heavy spray schedule, it will be difficult using the few homeowner products available to stay within the guidelines of the labels. In other words, labels generally limit the amount of applications per season. Spraying even every ten days will take you over the limit.

Let me try to give you some practical recommendations.
Fungicides:

Captan-A lot of folks on this list don't speak very highly of it, but I've had good luck with it. It has multi-site activity, low risk for disease resistance, and it doesn't wash off that easily (I can still see the film after a light rain) I really wonder if it doesn't get a bad rap because folks mix it in water that is too alkaline. The universities warn repeatedly that it is very subject to rapid breakdown in alkaline water. I buffer my water with a little citric acid before using it. Citric acid is available in grocery stores, or in larger quantities on-line. Captan is available in all kinds of homeowner formulations, and depending on the label is listed for most fruit crops. I think the label on my formulation allows up to 9 applications per season on peaches.

Montery Fungi Fighter- This is a powerful fungicide for BR. Although I don't use this homeowner formulation, I use the commercial equivalent, Bumper, aka Tilt, aka Orbit. The commercial product is only labeled for about 4 applications per season for brown rot (two very early applications for blossom blight and two late applications for BR on the fruit).

Immunox- This has the same mode of action as Montery Fungi fighter, but can be used on apples. I don't think fungi fighter can be used on pomes.

Chlorothalinil- Available in many homeowner formulations. It is primarily used for leaf curl, but is also labeled for BR in blossoms. It can be used up to shuck split. There are warnings that it can be phytotoxic to foliage, but I haven't seen it, except on tomatoes. Still, make sure you use the lower rate on the label.

Copper- Since you already have it, I won't say much about it other than Kocide 3000 is a new formulation that is less phytotoxic than other formulations. It's available on the internet.

Insecticides:

There are less choices here, but here are a few. All are lethal to bees.

Triazicide Once and Done- This is a homeowner formulation of a powerful commercial product called Proaxis. It will probably be the mainstay of your summer spray program. I think it allows up to 9 applications per season. It can be used on both stone and pome fruits. However, if used extensively on pome fruits, it may cause a mite outbreak. A little summer oil mixed in may suppress mites. Fortunately, peaches aren't as susceptible to mites.

Sevin (Carbaryl)-Widely available in garden stores. I use a little bit of it. It's not that great for moths, but it's one of the most effective products available for Japanese beetles. It's also somewhat effective against plum curculio. It's residues only effective about a week on the tree.

Oil- You already know about. Most oils can be used in the summer at a lower rate to control mites and other small crawlers.

That's about it for effective homeowner pesticides. Unfortunately, the insecticides probably won't get you through the season. Here is one commercial alternative.

Imidan-I don't use it myself but several folks on this forum recommend and use it. It's a commercial product available on Ebay. It has some issues you should know about should you decide to use it. The link below covers a long discussion about it. Imidan, like Captan, is very subject to breakdown (hydrolysis) in alkaline water. Imidan can be sprayed up to about 4 times per season for peach. Many more for apple.

Make sure you read the labels before you purchase your products. Labels can generally be found by Googling.

Lastly, I can't imagine what would be attacking the swollen buds of your trees. I've heard of winter moths in the east attacking trees in the winter. Maybe that's what it is. Generally the earliest you have to start spraying insecticides (other than oil) is sometime after petal fall for curculio.

Here is a link that might be useful: Discussion of Imidan

olpea, I don't want to sidetrack this thread with a big debate on how poisonous Imidan is, but do you want your children playing in an area regularly sprayed by a chemical that the EPA is in the process of phasing out due to concern about chemical exposure of farm workers? I sure don't. One thing that home orchardists should be particularly aware of is how much more sensitive children are to pesticides since their bodies are still under development. Farmers are adults and can take a lot more pesticide exposure.

Scott

That's a good point Scott. As an aside, I want to mention that one should be especially conscious of keeping their children out of the spray area for the REI.

With regard to Imidan, from reading the EPA decision paper on it, I don't have much more concern than I do with other pesticides. It used to be labeled for application to the house pets (dogs) which were tracking it into the house, presumably with children using them as pillows. The EPA wanted to stop that. The RED paper indicates the EPA also lengthened some PHI's and canceled use in residential areas. Still, the EPA allows only a 3 day REI and PHI for blueberries. That would include U-pick.

Imidan 70wp does have a relatively low oral LD50 value at 275 mg/kg. As a comparative, lime sulfur has an LD50 of around 450. However, there are actually more children poisoned by pyrethrins and pyrethroids than organophosphates (Imidan).

In terms of carcinogenic properties, actually a homeowner product like chlorothalinil is much more carcinogenic than Imidan. Chlorothalinil is also used in paints and caulks, as a mold inhibitor.

The reason I mentioned Imidan to mensplace is that he seemed a pretty serious fruit grower with some serious pest pressure. Serious backyard growers sometimes have precious few products available. I mentioned Imidan, but there are issues associated with it. Namely, not for use in residential areas, and the water soluble packets. In the thread above, Hman mentioned he places the water soluble packets in a gallon jug to make a liquid concentrate and then meters out the concentrate. I've no idea if mensplace is in a residential area.

But I think your original point is a good one. In short, a person better be darn careful with concentrates of any pesticide, especially commercial ones. A hungry child (most child poisonings occur around mealtimes) gets into a pesticide and it's going to be an unhappy outcome. Keep pesticides locked up and don't let kids in the area until the REI.

olpea, I don't think the LD50 is meaningful if you have the chemicals kept securely away from kids -- you are never going to acutely poison yourself unless you are trying to do it. It is the long-term effects that is my primary concern, and a big part of the problem there is the unknown. My dads golfing buddy would clean his balls by popping them in his mouth. He died and the autopsy showed he had been poisoned by the grass chemicals. He could probably have done this for weeks without any problem, but he did it for years and the chemical built up.

For me the REI problem is my trees are all over my yard and I don't feel like telling the kids they can't play in the yard for days. I am also in a suburban neighborhood with other homes and kids close by so drift can occur.

I agree there are many chemicals in the house etc that may be worse. My simple attitude is just to go by the EPA scientists conclusions - if they restrict Imidan I want to as well, and if they have not restricted chlorothalonil in houses I'll keep using it. They are experts and have looked into issues of how much is transmitted etc. The worst chemical in houses here in Baltimore by far is lead. Our first daughter had elevated lead levels when we lived in an old house. Now thats a scare.

Scott

Scott,

You're point about trusting the EPA is well taken. However, in this case I think there are a few caveats.

While there have been concerns about Ag worker safety with regard to Imidan, it's important to mention the EPA assumes the worst case scenario with regard to worker exposure. They assume 8 hrs. in the field, thinning fruit, all sweaty, etc. There were circumstances where this was the case and concern over the level of exposure was well justified. However, I don't think that translates into the level of exposure of those who use it carefully.

Although there has been a lot of excitement over organophosphates, I don't see the EPA's reaction, with regard to phosmet (Imidan), as one that's particularly negative. It's not a restricted-use pesticide. If there were serious concerns, I'd expect them to take that action. Addtionally, I've not seen any action indicating the EPA plans to phase out phosmet. They are certainly going to phase out azinphos-methyl but I've not heard that in regard to phosmet.

I see their actions regarding phosmet as 1. Reducing Ag worker exposure (and 8hrs. in the field is a lot of exposure) by lengthening most of the REI's. 2. Stop Joe Sixpack from spraying his crabapple with a short sleeve shirt while smoking a cigarette (The IRED talks about expected sloppy homeowner application practices.) And to stop significant child exposure from dusting the pets with Imidan. To me, these don't seem like alarmist measures by the EPA, but a mere common sense approach.

However, I agree with you that if one is in a situation where it's impractical for REI's to be observed, he/she shouldn't use it.

I think LD50 is significant, because that seems to play a key role in canceled registrations of pesticides. If you look at pesticides the EPA has banned, it seems most of them have low, or very low LD50 values (the lower the LD50 value, the less margin for error). Others have been banned because of extreme carcinogenic effects and other damaging effects on the body, or a very negative environmental impact. I don't see cancer or environmental concerns applying to so much to phosmet. If phosmet's registration is ever pulled, it will probably be because of it's relatively low LD50 and perhaps also that it's cholinesterase inhibitor.

Thankfully we don't have the lead around here. But I think we have more than our share of radon.

Chemicals residues are measured in parts per million or ppm.

Fact - standard level of acceptance of pesticide residue is 30 ppm.

Fact- Viagara works at 30 ppm

Fact- Birth control pills work on the human body at .02 ppm

What are the chemicals that we spray on our trees doing to us, even at low doses?

WFer: Residues are often detectible in the ppb range and have been so, analytically, for a long time. A case in point - remember the, "Alar scare" on apples way back when? As I recall, nobody knew the Alar residues were present on apples because the analytical methods could only detect down to the ppm range. Then then it became analytically possible to detect in the ppb range, and what do you know, there is residual Alar on the apples. Then, NRDC publishes and spoon feeds to the media, for whatever reason, a factually incorrect paper about the issue and THE SCARE IS ON! The NRDC has still not regained any respect from me after that stunt.

Michael

Wildforager:

I am 71 and stand a fair chance of seeing 80 or more, in spite of some of my questionable habits. 100 years ago, chances are I would have been dead before 50. People died young back then even from simple infections, because there was no way to cure them. Now we have chemicals that keep us alive much longer.

I have been eating fresh fruits and vegetables with their "chemical residues" all my life, and I give them at least part of the credit for keeping me healthy. Like anything else, common sense must be applied when using chemicals on fruits and vegetables, and simple washing is certainly one way to reduce any potentially harmful residues.

I am grateful for chemicals, not only those that can directly cure disease, but those that enable me to grow safe and delightful fruits and vegetables. There is much more risk in a diet of fast-food hamburgers and fries.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

jellyman,

Good point, well taken. It is always wise to wash off your fruit, especially if it is sprayed with chems. My hopes are that more invasive methods of pest control would be a last resort. Michael Phillips has a lot of great ways to deal with pests in his book. I do think that sometimes chemicals might be necessary but should be used sparingly. Have you ever heard of MRSA? Its an antibiotic resistant form of staph. We bred this super bug with over use of antibiotics. What are we doing to the bugs on our trees? Another reason I try not to support chemical ag. is a lot of that stuff is made by monsanto and they are constantly trying to turn the screws to the small farmer. Not what I want to support.

-Wildforager