Philodendron 'autumn'?

This post was edited by Lauraeli on Wed, Jun 25, 14 at 9:24

'Morning GT,

Am wondering if you'd get a better response on this at the Aroid Forum since that is what it is, no? Of course, l'm interested to learn its ID too.

Any reason why it cant be philodendron 'autumn'??

The leaf shape & particularly the leaf tips don't match. Yours seem a more tapered point, his leaves seem wider approaching their tip.

There is not enough difference to rule it out. Differences in leaf shape and width between individual plants of the same type are determined by light levels and maturity/immaturity. But maybe somebody will come forward with a more definite ID.

This post was edited by Lauraeli on Wed, Jun 25, 14 at 11:21

i agree that leaf shape is different from 'autumn' -more elongated.
it looks closer to ph. erubescens.

or perhaps ph. melinonii - though it is rare in US (but very common in brazil apparently). mature leaves in-ground can reach 24", so it is very large. is yours a juvie crown offset?
have a look at the middle pic of 3 in the link.
juvie petioles are reddish and then fade somewhat.
but i admit, that's a far reach..;). just having fun here searching:).

Here is a link that might be useful: ph. melinonii

This post was edited by petrushka on Wed, Jun 25, 14 at 12:39

Some of the lower leaves on the first 'autumn' are elongated like that.

It would be very nice if we could get another picture of what we are trying to identify...

ph. 'caramel cream' looks like a possibility, though it has light variegated streaking in the leaves too. it has reddish-petioles and lighter colored emerging leaf.
'autumn' has sev younger leaves with reddish/bronze coloration, gt's plant does not have that. and leaf-tips are quite different as PG pointed out.

Thanks for adjusting the colors, Lauraeli! I snapped that pic late at night with a flash, and this does look truer to reality now with your work.

"Autumn" tips on Lauraeli's first pic do look more acute indeed, but when I google images, many pop up with leaf tips similar to mine, so it's an option I would not discount.

> 'autumn' has sev younger leaves with reddish/bronze coloration, gt's plant does not have that.

Good observation. My Prince of Orange leaves also mature into the green color very slowly, so there is a bunch of juvenile salmon/pink/brownish colored leaves all at different stages of maturity. Could it be cultural though - maybe this plant stopped growing leaves for a while, so they all matured, and then this one juvie started coming out?

I think P. erubescens, does not match, petrushka - erubescens leaf base is very sagittate and mine is less so and is more cordate:
{{gwi:88573}}

P. melinonii is also not a match: same wrong base, I think, and petioles are mostly green while mine are beet-red even on more mature leaves. (It's fun to look at pics and research though - I agree).

> is yours a juvie crown offset?

I have not seen the parent plant, but there were a few offsets shared at the Gardening Society yesterday, and some were smaller with slightly smaller leaves and some larger than mine in the picture - but the leaf size I indicated is a good estimate.

> It would be very nice if we could get another picture of what we are trying to identify...

Sure:
{{gwi:88575}}

And here's the back of the leaf:
{{gwi:88577}}

Purplish tint and purple veins may be telling here.

> ph. 'caramel cream' looks like a possibility, though it has light variegated streaking in the leaves too. it has reddish-petioles and lighter colored emerging leaf.

Good points, but the variegation rules it out, I think.

Do take into consideration though that erubescens is not a self header.

Since I'm new to Philos folks could someone pls. define for me the term 'self-heading', which I've never seen / heard it before. Thanks.

PG

That's an interesting shaped Philo leaf, not something I've seen on a 'Prince of Orange.' I don't believe 'Autumn' has those shaped leaves either.

Planto

now i see that the leaf near the base is almost pear-like in shape, narrower and then flares out closer to the end. that should be a give-away and also those red veins on the back.
why don't you track down who's donated the starts? it could be easier!
there are so many new hybrid varieties.
'emerald queen', emerald prince, emerald green..
ph. erubescens 'imperial red' leaf looks very close to yours (dg)
below is an interesting noid thread discussing smth very similar to yours (leaf shape, purple petioles), except for youngest leaf color.
keep in mind that if it's grown at very low light the color will be much paler.

Here is a link that might be useful: philo from lowes

ph. erubescens not self-header? i thought it was ..looking at pics... but now i searched more and they say it's climbing. perhaps, it's some hybrids of erubescens are not climbing? 'imperial red' looks self-heading to me, no?
ph. 'rojo congo' is a hybrid of 'imperial red' and it grows in a clump.

Here is a link that might be useful: ph rojo congo

these people say that congo's are self-headers.
more in the prior link to old noid thread, one of the posters says that congo leaves curve sharply upword next to petiole.
i don't see a sharp curve on GT's leaves, but they do seem to rise up too, don't they?

Here is a link that might be useful: ph congo/rojo congo

so i am looking at self-heading hybrids.
there's lots ...a lot with 'aristo' names imperial, prince, queen,etc.
thank you, gt for asking the question. i am having a blast today!

Here is a link that might be useful: pretty good list of hybrid self-headers

are you still with me;)??
i found a special for GT perusal: a paper discussing parentage of many hybrids, including many self-headers.
it's interesting that ph. erubescens is listed in many 'ruby/red/pink' cultivars. as can be expected.
cluster III is of main interest, it contains most 'aristo' colored varieties (but not congos - they were not included in study, it seems).
one is of special interest : sunset. it might be the closest match yet. not easy to find a good pic.
this is the best i've got so far.
in general ph. congos are much larger then the other mentioned hybrids.

Here is a link that might be useful: study of philo hybrid parentage

in short from above link 5 philo's were crossed , 1st semi-climbing with wendlandii-imbe, then with erubescens and others. many were produced from crossing 'prince of orange' with others.
here's a nice pic of wendlandii-imbe with similar 'pear-shaped' leaf. but petioles are not colored.
so i think it will be quite hard to determine what hybrid exactly is GT start, unless some specialist shows up here.

Here is a link that might be useful: philo wendlandii-imbe

GT, I guess you never did post it on the Aroid Forum. Why not? Might that not be preferable to all this Guesswork?

I was at the same event as GT & I got one of these Philos myself, so am also interested in its ID (tho' mine is a smaller division). Maybe when I pot it up this wknd, I'll take some pix & try to post it there myself.

Karen,
Climbing philos have longer internodes compared with the compact design of what's typically refered to as a self header. Philos bips and xanadu are examples of self headers.
'Least that's the way I always understood it.

Wow Petrushka,
talk about a lot of good info to catch up on(been away for a bit)!
Always fantasized about hybridizing philos. Wonder what a pink princess and a xanadu would produce...don't you?

For all I know,they have it already,huh? Got some reading to do on existing hybrids...thanks for the links!

Edited to say that I'm already finding errors in my assumptions. Thanks again Petrushka,..this is good info!

This post was edited by asleep_in_the_garden on Sat, Jun 28, 14 at 12:53

Thanks Asleep. When I tried to look up self header in a botanical context, it just suggested climber.

Well here' some pix of mine, I potted it in mix this morning.

{{gwi:88578}}

The interior

{{gwi:88579}}

some other angles

{{gwi:88582}}

I've never had a big Philo like this. I remember a scrappy one like that at a relative's but it's new to me. Interesting that GT suggests it can do fine in lower light. I hadn't realized that, so it's helpful, allows me to keep my prime window sills & nearby spaces for Hoyas & Succulents.

Should be cool.

{{gwi:88583}}

Am guessing $5 for these was a steal?

Yerp.
Made out like a bandit you did!

By the by,..self headers climb or trail as well...they just move a lot slower with such short internodes.

found another , but that is considered rare.
ph. kaleidoscope. very few pics
click on the pic to get larger.
leaves very similar, coloration too, except the petioles not beet-red., but pinkish.
also interesting horizontal ripple on the leaves similar to GT's.

Here is a link that might be useful: about half-way, in the mid-row

I postedy own thread about my new philodendron but it didn’t get any hits, so sorry I’m advance if I am crossing any lines by posting here, but I was hoping to see what type ppl thought this was. My best guess was imperial red.