Overall my experience has been positive and their selection keeps getting better and better in my opinion. In my last shipment I did receive two roses that were extremely tiny but I planted them (in the ground as I always do) and they are finally starting to take off. Others in the same shipment were vigorous and bloomed almost immediately. I did receive one rose which I did not order where the box had my address but the shipment order had someone else's name and an address in San Francisco! I called them immediately to make sure the SF buyer would get her rose as soon as possible.

Ingrid

nastarana, I don't know yet how hardy Radiance will be in my garden. I have seen it only in the Gothenburg rosarium and in the rosarium at Sangerhausen, both in climates different from mine. My only other American HT is Sutter's Gold but I don't know how it compares to Radiance in hardiness. SO is doing well after three years but I usually give a rose five years before judging it. The few HTs I've had for 14 years are all doing fine, Elina, Mme Caroline Testout and Rose Gaujard. I hope Radiance will be in the same league.

I agree with the others, bands need a few months before sticking them into the ground.

RVR is wonderful for customer service and available selection of OGRs. Not much where else to go for Old Europeans since Vintage Gardens doesn't seem to propagate them anymore.
I never rec'd a mislabeled rose there. Band size varies as it does anywhere you order, depending on age and variety. No smaller at RVR than anywhere. As a general rule I have found the largest bands are to be had towards the end of summer.
I would not hesitate to order there. I like the shipping policy, one by one as opposed to multiples of 4, and no big old $9 ag fee. I order from them all and RVR is at the top of the list with VG.

Weighing in again - I wonder of the sturdy bands I receive in late April are due to the later spring shipping - they just have more time to grow.
I always pot up the bands, usually first spring through fall on the deck where I can water quickly, then into the drainage ditch to be covered with leaves for the winter and into the ground in the second spring. But in 09 I had the new rose garden in place, and they went from the pots in April to the garden in July, and all did well, were all there last year, and received very little attention beyond spring and summer feeding and the usual spring cleanup. We had a very dry (some say MEditerranean) summer in 2010, too.
I'd hesitate to go straight into the ground, only because with my limited well water, watering is reserved for the "babies" on the deck and the vegetable garden, and it would be harder to remember to lug a bucket out to the rose garden.

sherrycola and harborrose, I should probably not attempt the SDLM group in cold NY where I live now, but thank you for looking nonetheless. I think all the SDLM group are splendid in their proper climate, hot and dry, and I am glad to see that all do now seem to be in commerce. I saw a SDLM at the Garden of Legend and Romance in Ohio, and a pitiful specimen it was. In contrast, cold hardy roses, like Viking Queen and New Dawn were gloriously flourishing.

Marianne, you do give me hope. I wonder if we could prevail on you to, in another thread perhaps, describe how roses are winter protected in Sweden.

***teeandcee, those are very interesting photos of 'split stem' roses. I've never seen that before. Anyone know what causes that? ***

I checked and it was Madame Pierre Oger that had the split stem. She was fine last year and we'll see how she does this year.

I've linked a short discussion here on GW about split stems. I'm glad I have a record of which rose had it so I can keep track.

Here is a link that might be useful: split stems

"Oh plz take picture would like to see."

Ok, I've had them for less than a week and they had already been potted up... I tried to bury the damage in hopes of developing some roots further up (and the instructions do say to plant an inch or two deep)... so I had to dig away some dirt to take these pictures.

{{gwi:236531}}

{{gwi:236532}}

{{gwi:236533}}

Ok, here's a cutting that I rooted myself to show in comparison.
{{gwi:236534}}
That's how they're supposed to look. I hate having to try and rescue something.

In July 09, planting the little bands after only three months in pots, I managed to break one of the canes - it was only about 1/4" in diameter, and it was snapped with one side still intact. I splinted it with a little stick, wrapped it in black electrical tape (it was handy, what can I say....) and it never even wilted! Last year I carefully slit away the tape, didn't try to pull it off, but slit it so the cane could continue to expand.
Thos RVR roses are tough!

Oh, Jon, the canker or whatever it is in the cold springs here would eat those for breakfast!

I have to be picky about my band-sized roses. I try to order from places that have the same climate when possible, and I try to hit the sweet spot as far as too cool and fungusy here vs sweltering in shipment.

I've never tried RV, but I sure do miss Ashdown! SC rose vendors have never failed me and my yard.

Vintage Gardens roses hate me a fair bit, for reference.

I also really wish there were a designation in between 'band' and 'gallon'at places. I've ordered from places with sturdy old bands, but I've also received barely-rooted one-caners that have made me a little angry, to be honest.

BTW, just in case anyone should go looking for them, it's not "Rouge Valley" (as in red stuff older ladies put on their cheeks) but ROGUE Valley -- as in The Valley Of The Rogue (Rogue River, Oregon).

I just thought I ought to mention this, in case anyone tried to "Google" it.

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: Rogue River, OR

I like the fact they sell 5 gallons and have ordered them before I hate waiting for bands

Nastarana, I would never tell you what you could grow in your climate. I barely know what will grow in mine... I just mentioned it as you said you thought it was no longer in commerce. That's all.

I've bought most of my roses (somewhere around 200 of the beasties) from RVR, all bands. RVR is kind of like the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead--when they're good, they're very very good, but when they're bad they're horrid. Most of the bands have done very well. But I've seen--on an increasing basis--the kind of thing that Jon has experienced. And also have received the wrong rose many times--also on an increasing basis. Granted, they will fix things--eventually. Janet is great, if you can ever get through to her.

Keep in mind, everyone, that Rogue Valley Roses is one of a diminishing number of small and struggling specialty nurseries. Cut them every bit of slack that you can afford or you will lose them altogether. Roses are not exactly a necessity (well, at least not to some people), and being in the business of selling interesting quality roses is a labor of love rather than of profit. So....do your best to help them to do their best. If they mess up, ask them nicely to fix it; if they disappoint you, tell them so they can improve. These are not corporate entities with bottomless supplies of cash and labor. They are valuable and vulnerable resources that we should be doing our best to encourage.

Susan

Thank you Susan! I am a partner in a small business in a small town, and our competitors in nearby small city are mostly franchises/branches of the big guys. We offer incredible personal and individualized service - and we are doing fine. We all need to support these small suppliers, and think about the small village model, a village mentality - we can all win.

That's why I will still order from Vintage! I love those guys. It's not their fault my yard has rougher conditions than some other folks'. I can honestly say that all the roses I've gotten from them must have left there looking great, albeit small sometimes. It's the time out of their hands that disagrees with my garden on ocassion. I certainly risk it when I can :)

I'd buy from RVR. I'm going to my more local standbys first, is all.

Long Ago Roses, for instance. I don't know her (have met her), but those are some sturdy roses built for NC. She's in NC :D She'll email you telling you how large the ones you'll get are right then. You can't beat that! Not everyone can do that, of course, but it helps.

Lisa at Countryside wasn't going to send me a certain climber because it had a bad spot up on one if its little canes. A deep south grown rose? I told her to send it on, and it did great.

I've had success ordering from far away, too, but the disease pressure is such here that I don't always risk it. And of course the shipping is more (Vintage has the Ag fee, too). Just buy from somebody trying to preserve and offer our kind of roses, I say :)

RU are my go-to guys, and I bought truckfuls from Ashdown. I mail-order(ed) from them, too.

I've never had an instance where there was a problem which the on-line nursery I dealt with did not immediately offer to fix. This may not be everyone's experience, and I suppose it depends on whom you order from. However, I'm incredibly grateful that these old-rose nurseries even exist so that I'm able to have the garden I want and dream about.

I salute the wonderful people at Vintage, Rogue Valley, Chamblee's, Heirloom and Long Ago Roses who've given me a garden filled with romantic old roses. I couldn't have done it without them.

Ingrid

I'm kind of surprised at the negative comments about Rogue Valley Roses. I've ordered from them a couple of times. They have a good selection and have had things in stock when I could not find them elsewhere.

They were small bands but I potted them up into gallon pots and let them grow and leaf out before planting them. I lost one of them. They also GAVE me a couple of mystery roses that are doing beautifully but that I have yet to identify. They also GAVE me a split stem rose that looked a lot like the one jon had--that was the one that didn't make it. I can hardly complain--it was FREE.

The other roses looked good (but small).

I too, prefer larger roses but sometimes you take what you can get. I've been pleased with my orders from RVR and by the customer service I've received from them. I would not hesitate to order from them again if I couldn't find what I was looking for at a closer nursery.

Jeff

I have bought three split-stem roses from them (sold to me as such). All three still live and bloom.

I just received my order of 4 roses (+ 1 free rose + 1 free mystery rose) from RVR. All are bands and all look good. I have repotted all into gallon pots and so far everything is fine. They do not look puny. This is my first time ordering from them.

I just received my order from RVR . They left San Francisco on April the 13th, cleared customs in Toronto on the evening of the 15th, and were delivered to my door on the 19th. They were packed extremely well, pots and bands wrapped in plastic and taped to the sides of sturdy boxes. I was sent an email from RVR with automatic tracking of my shipment and a reference number if it perchance went astray once it crossed the border. So their new international shipping service is top notch in my view. I have lost imported roses on previous occasions from other American suppliers.

So I now have nine new roses, two in gallon pots. All of the roses are varieties that were previously unavailable in Canada, including 4 Barden varieties, one old Austin and two bands of Quietness. I have been trying to find a source that would ship Quietness to Canada for four years. I even contacted RVR the year before last to see if they would ship to Canada, not then, but now I have it. So kudos to RVR for making that happen.

The gallon size roses I received are lovely and large and ready to go, October Moon and Siren's Keep. The bands are small, but healthy and now potted in gallon pots for the summer.

Running a rose nursery is a hard businees. Cultivating and shipping living things is risky. So particularly when I get the kind of service and healthy plants I just received from RVR in an international shipment, I can only give them a thumbs up.

HHRD - I have Quietness in Canada!!

Cheers,

Rideau Rose Lad, aka Rick

My dozen came yesterday - 8 I chose, two freebies from a list I chose, and two mystery roses, all in great condition, packed as described above. Plus, when you call them - there is a real human being on the other end! Thank you to Janet!

I've ordered from Rogue Valley Roses a few times, though not every year. The 2 Mariannes I received as bands a few years ago (4?) I planted directly in the ground and they are huge and healthy. I ordered a number of others that had to live in pots for a while, but most are in the ground now & doing well. I ordered 2 bands this year - Kathleen (HM) and Secret Garden Musk Climber. Kathleen went directly into the ground and is doing well, and SGMC had to be potted - her spot isn't quite ready yet.

I have no qualms about purchasing from RVR again or recommending them to others.

Wanted to update. My split-stem Madame Pierre Oger came through the winter just fine, is about 2 feet tall, and has a bud on it. Can't wait to see the bloom!

I'm no expert, but I've been very happy with the roses I got from RVR so far. The only roses that didn't do well for me were Reine des Violettes (which is doing better now potted up, and my soil is heavy alkaline... and plenty of other people have had trouble with RdV establishing) and Gloire de Dijon, which again, plenty of other people have had trouble with, too.

The gallon La France cl. and the band of Mme Berard I got from them are majestic and growing very fast. There's no way you'd look at my reasonably large Mme. Berard this year and be able to tell that LAST year (mid year even!) she was a tiny band. And the Aimee Vibert band I got last fall is growing quite fast for a little baby that many complain about being slow to grow.

In the last year, I've made 6-7 orders from RVR, all of which consisted entirely of bands. Over 20 bands total.

One rose sent was the wrong one, but alphabetically next door to the one I had ordered. This sort of error is common, and they sent me the right rose at no charge, so it didn't bother me at all.

One band didn't make it, but it was a rather frail sort of OGR, and they replaced it for the cost of shipping, in accordance with their posted policy.

All other bands I've ordered have been healthy, and done very well. Some I ordered last year were over a foot tall on arrival, and while this year's lot seems smaller overall, it varies a lot by rose. If you order something vigorous like Gloire des Rosomanes, you can expect lots of robust roots, and a plant that may be able to go directly into the ground. Slow growing or delicate roses would benefit from staying in a 1-2 gallon for a while first.

100% of my orders arrived when they were supposed to.

Summary: great selection, no gripes about customer service or shipping. I don't find a 5% infant mortality rate to be disturbing when the roses are replaced for the cost of shipping, but some customers might disagree.

I'll happily keep ordering from them, if I can think of any more roses that I need which they carry.

Update: 5/17/2017

I'm updating my previous review (below) in the interest of fairness. My rating of RVR was "horrible", now they've improved to "bad."

____________________________________

Original Review 5/15/2017

My most recent experience with RVR has been HORRIBLE.

I've had excellent experiences with Rogue Valley Roses in the past. However, they are under new management and they just stole $32 of my money. To be precise, I ordered two roses this spring, they were healthy and grew well, but when they bloomed, it became obvious that one of them had been mislabelled - they accidentally sent the wrong rose.

No big deal, just send me the right rose or refund my money. I sent three emails over a three week time period, got no response whatsoever, so I went to phone calls. Got a man who never gave me his name and wasn't particularly polite, made it clear he didn't really want to be bothered. He told me the company was under new management, they'd been backlogged and were struggling to catch up and would get to my issues as soon as they could. I waited a week, nothing, so I called back. Same again. Last week, after three emails and three phone calls, I told the guy I wanted my money and I wanted it within three days, no more postponements. He said, "Okay, I'll use PayPal and send you an instantaneous transfer so you can have it right this minute." I said fine. But, it's been three days and the money isn't in my account. So I called back and he said, very self righteous, "I refunded your money last week."

But he didn't. I don't have the money. I even logged into PayPal to see if anything was being held in PayPal rather than put in my bank account. Looks like Rogue Valley Roses has stolen $32 of my money.

UPDATE/CORRECTION 5-17-2017 - After I posted this review and emailed them to let them know I was giving them terrible reviews online, they apologized and refunded the money. So,in fairness, I'm correcting my review to reflect that, after seven weeks of determined effort, I finally received my refund. However, the whole experience was unpleasant and I don't plan to deal with them again.

as I said on your other post I don't think they are Under New Management because Janet the owner was there the day I was there she just has a new guy that's in charge I guess that's calling him the new manager but she is on site. The whole place seemed very chaotic and crazy the day I was there they dug me up my rose because they forgot I had placed an order when I came to pick it up I do not believe it is Ingrid Bergman time will tell on that but it is a very unhealthy band hasn't in one month gotten one new Leaf or any new basil breaks

We've ordered many, many roses from RVR over the years. Mostly because they always seem to be the only place with the roses we want. No question that they have the best selection of old and antique roses.

Of course we always receive their small bands and wish they were bigger, but it is what it is and the price seems quite fair for what you get. We might have had a problem or two over the years, but none that I recall. Just last week we ordered and promptly received Eden and Louise Odier. They are in fine shape.

We pot them up in 2 gallon pots filled with the "Magic Mix" posted elsewhere here and if we take care of them and eventually put them in a good spot, they do fine. Just takes awhile...

I think it's important to understand that anyone in the nursery business does around 85% of their total annual business between April 15th and May 30th, so they are always going to be a bit harried around this time...

I ordered three bands from RVR in Feb or so. After the plants bloomed, it was obvious two were mis-labelled. Pilarcitos blooms were red (supposed to be white) and Bouquet D'Or blooms were pink ( supposed to be yellow). I sent pictures and emails twice to them but did not get a reply to either.

I've sort of given up trying to get this straightened out but have to say I will be hesitant to order from them again.

I hate to say it, but I think they are having problems.

I admire Janet Inada, (Not under new management), for continuing to work at her age, at RVR since 2002 and do her best to share her love for old roses. This would not be easy. Employing helpers to select and pack band roses would have it's challenges it goes without saying. She is in her high 70s I think and been doing all this after she retired from another full career. Internet business is another challenge at that age. I'm pretty shocked some are so outraged they get a frail plant on occasion. The alternative would be to have such high standards and do it all herself and just have to reretire I would imagine. I have planted the plants, and as Christopher describes so well, the new basal shoots come up and you can trim off the aged frail little cutting piece. My plants have grown well both potted to start, and directly planted in the ground. RVR reminds me a bit of Vintage. They all are (were) trying to share their love of roses.

I've ordered from RVR quite a few times -- and these were orders of at least a dozen each time. My error rate is at about 5%, but if you're ordering just a few at a time, even one wrong rose per order will up that percent for you. When I've experienced an error, I've emailed pics. If I don't get a response within a week or so, I make a phone call. As mentioned above, if you're emailing during their crazy time of year, it's hard to get through. I've never experienced any sort of rudeness. Once, when I put myself on a wait-list for a rose and it didn't arrive with my next order -- despite being charged for it -- I spoke to Janet herself, and she seemed exasperated -- but not rude. She seemed shocked that my order was charged months before the rose was even available to be shipped, but acknowledged that that was what happened, and apologized.

There are so few nurseries carrying the types of roses which interest me. It's a specialist market, so competition simply doesn't exist to the degree that would pressure businesses to run a tight ship so as to not be outdone by a rival. In the case of RVR, I don't think these errors are intentional or malicious. I think they're symptoms of a business begun by someone out of love, but which has grown beyond the level of control as originally intended. In my experiences, Janet will do her best to correct errors. I don't know how others speak on the phone in these situations, but having worked as a restaurant server for many years, I'm familiar with how to turn on the hospitality. I make sure to drop the "thank you for all your work in keeping these roses available" sentiment, and I think things like that go a long way in fostering a positive relationship with a retailer.

If you want to knock RVR, that's your prerogative. But keep in mind that for many roses in their inventory, "taking your business elsewhere" is simply not possible anymore. This is not something that works in a mass-produced limited-choice sophisticated business. It's a boutique business, and in the case of RVR, one which has had to do some outsourcing to keep up with an inventory expanded out of not wanting another rose to slip into obscurity.

:-)

~Christopher

Jeri, I know we all will be having problems as we get on to 80 etc. I also note people are very hard on other rose businesses too, for their high prices etc. I guess people all hope they could do a better job. If we all quit this Houzz and started our own nurseries we would find out how great we would do. I think some of the problems are that every employee is not as passionate about roses as we are. I think I'd have trouble sending the rose babies out to the "riff raff" who wouldn't take care of them properly. I feel really guilty when I mess one up. Some people don't seem to be suited to a rose business, because they ( I ) might start hoarding them all for themselves.

Basically a mom and pop bussiness that has gotten pretty big. It is run out of their home and she is elderly.

She said her business had grown by 50%. So they are doing something right, possibly their unique and hard to find roses

She is very nice so any mistakes are just that.

I am not sure what I ended up with but I only live a few miles from Rogue Valley roses so I'll just drive over there and see if I can figure out what they sent me home with.

I spoke to Janet on the phone after there was a mix up with one of my roses this spring. Although my emails didn't receive a response, my phone call worked just fine. Janet explained that there has been some nursery staff turnover (due to a marriage and departure...or something along those lines). My money was refunded since she wasn't certain her stock of that particular (and uncommon) rose was identified correctly. I now have a freebie mystery rose and a refund. It is frustrating when one must make multiple contacts, but I also know that what RVR is doing is very special and, especially in this day and age, precious and rare. With repeated contacts, RVR has always replaced or refunded...every time. I can't believe Janet is in her 70s. Amazing! Carol

I am glad people are speaking out to support RvR. Yes, sometimes you don't get the right thing and I know it's upsetting. But why do you feel the need to trash a business because of one bad experience? I wouldn't blame you if you didn't shop there again, but why trash them here. It's $32, get some perspective.

Most of these places are small mom and pop type businesses. And plants are fungible, they can die. I think places like RvR and Roses Unlimited do very well. Instead of getting all bent out of shape, try having more patience.

The last rose I ordered from them was not the correct rose. It was something near it in the alphabet ..both started with the letter M. I haven't ordered again since because they said they would refund me but never did. I contacted them twice then just gave up. The rose I was sent did turn out to be something I liked but probably wouldn't have bought on my own lol.

In the past, with other mail ordered issues that could not be resolved by contacting the seller several times, I have had excellent results either contacting the Better Business Bureau and filing a complaint or doing it through paypal or my cc co. if that is how I paid.

My previous orders were all correct with RVR but it seems that there is some quality control problems going on with so many people getting mislabled roses. I can understand the sentimental reasons some might have with a nursery selling antiques that can't be found elsewhere but what's the use if you don't get what you ordered? Bands can take some time to bloom which makes it worse. Some people are on fixed incomes and have to save up to order roses so telling them, "Well too bad just take one for the team and accept bad service" is not really acceptable. I have to call it like I see it. Maybe it isn't intentional to ship a mislabled rose but they need to step up and buckle down on the employees and quality control issues and if they need help answering calls, emails, and issuing refunds they should hire someone. People should not have to continually call and beg for corrections or refunds. If they continue this tactic they might get to keep a little money in the meantime but eventually this will cause resentments and customers will not return.

Just because its a "Ma Pa operation" doesn't mean they can't be reliable or honest and I doubt they are really so poor..its a business and they are making decent money because of customers who trust them. Lots of the customers are honest Ma's and Pa's too and they paid their hard earned money up front for a item that wasn't really provided if it was not correct.

For now, If I can find a particular rose elsewhere I will get it there first. I'm not saying I will never order from them again but they won't be my first choice and I want to see some feedback showing improvement first.

I just recently ordered from them and I was happy with what I received. Sultry jasmine nights, did you call them? I hope they fix the mix up!

So they finally refunded my money after seven weeks, three emails, and four phone calls. For those who want to defend Rogue Valley Roses -

(1) The reason I describe RVR as "under new management" is, the not very polite man I spoke with told me, during the first of my four phone calls, that "the owner had fired everyone and put in new management" and, according to him, that was why they hadn't responded to any of the emails I had sent them.

(2) If you are personally acquainted with the owner and have reason to sympathize with the owner's problems, that's fine. If you have had a recent good experience with RVR, that's fine. But, in the real world, those of us who deal with internet businesses need accurate information on whether they can expect a good experience and this means that individuals should post accurate accounts of their own experiences. My experience with RVR between February and May 2017 (typo corrected, this originally said 2015 causing confusion infra) has been absolutely horrible and I strongly recommend against dealing with them until they get their management issues straightened out.

If there has been a turnover in staff in the early months of 2017, then buyer experiences from two years ago should be put into proper perspective, should they not?

Typo, should have said, between February and May 2017. I placed my order February this year, realized I'd gotten the wrong rose when it bloomed in late March, and the three email four phone call saga followed.

This is your experience, and your opinion is valid. Others have had different experiences, and their opinions are equally valid. This thread is basically some people saying "I don't like them because...." and others saying "I like them because...." That one side doesn't convince the other does not invalidate either opinion.

:-)

~Christopher

The thing is, when your hire new staff, maybe they know nothing about roses, most people dont. They have a couple of young girls and a handful of Hispanic men.

The office felt like the absent minded professor was selling roses. Stacks of papers everywhere.

My thought is that as Janet has aged and her business has doubled she is overwhelmed. When that happened you need a tight, well trained team trained keep things on track. I dont think that had happened yet. Because her team is so new mistakes are being made.

Her new team is probably a bit frustrated as well. I don't know what the future holds for Rogue Valley roses but at Janets age retirement is probably looming

Well, I hope they can get their act together as they're the only ones that sell E. B. LeGrice, and I WANT that rose! : )I do feel for them as good help is hard to find, but it often takes a strong hand to get the best from some people. If she fired a bunch of people, perhaps this is an attempt to straighten out the situation.

The recent summary by AquaEyes is fair, I think. It is pretty common for a legitimate business with management issues to provide very uneven service, an excellent experience to one customer and a horrible experience to another customer. That seems to be what's going on at RVR. I hope they manage to get things back on track and wish them luck in doing so, but since I'm the customer who had the horrible experience, I'm not going to risk a repeat.

Hi Quitaque1

I think you got a response from the guy who isn't supposed to be
answering the phones at Rogue Valley. I talked to him too and he wasn't
very helpful. I was talking today to a lovely young lady at Rogue Valley
who said she is the one supposed to be handling the customer service.
She was very competent and resolved all my questions with no troubles.
She asked that I log back in here and ask that you call back and ask for
her by name - Aleida. She apologized for the hassle that you've
received and said she would do everything she could to resolve the
situation.

I'll post this message at the bottom of the other threads you've
posted your concerns on, to indicate this as a solution for anyone else
experiencing this type of problem. Rogue Valley is a small company but
in general they've been lovely to deal with over the years if there has
been a problem with an order.

Cynthia

That's a useful comment. Aleida is the one who FINALLY refunded my money and apologized, so anyone having trouble with RVR should probably ask for her by name, dodging the rude unhelpful guy. I'm definitely NOT going to deal with RVR in future (I like mid twentieth century hybrid teas, so I can get my roses elsewhere.) But OGR lovers may decide it's worth the risk.

As a general rule: When dealing with vendors who are completely unresponsive to reasonable requests for correcting their errors, it can help to write a letter stating dispassionately, in detail and succinctly what has transpired and what is desired as remediation. Keep a copy. Phone calls and Emails can evaporate into the ether but letters require a response. Oh yes, and they hate it. Their letter response costs them more money.

Cath