In my opinion, Souvenir de la Malmaison cl is the better candidate just because of the beauty of her blooms.

Clothilde Soupert cl completely balled this wet winter and had a heavy case of thirps (sp), but then again this winter was unusual.

If you don't already have SDLM, you MUST get one ASAP!

A garden is not complete without her :)

I understand that Cl. SdlM is considered to be quite inferior to the bush specimen, with much less bloom. Clothilde Soupert has never thrilled me and it can really ball, but others love it. Were it my garden I would pick one of the noisettes which will have masses of bloom and leaves and really look spectacular. I have Mrs. Woods' Lavender Pink Noisette which is very pretty and have seen picture of Natchitoches Noisette that were to die for. I think it was on the antique gallery in a recent thread on cemetery roses. You really can't go wrong with one of the noisettes; they're all so beautiful and would be great in your climate.

Ingrid

if cl SdlM is inferior... should I go with Maman Cochet cl instead...?

Love the picture of in this thread:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosesant/msg0217352213754.html
... but I did a search for more and had a hard time finding more good pics. Do you know of any? Maybe I am searching wrong.

What about Blush Noisette or Aimée Vibert?

Here is a link that might be useful: Natchitoches Noisette

I've had the opposite experience. Clothilde Soupert is definitely better for my climate. Souvenir de Malmaison was a horrible blackspot magnet. Blush Noisette blooms in shade here. Natchitoches Noisette is also a great shade tolerant rose.

I got maybe 1 nice CS flower for every 100 on the plant. It balled and browned up, never opened up. I think there are many better climbers than both of those.

Patrick----if you are reading this I want you to know that CS has a lot of buds this year---Can't wait to see the blooms---I think of you everytime I look at CS. I'm not a good photographer but I really love this picture----best one I ever took.
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Florence

I have both Cl CS and Cl SDLM. I have found that CL CS is far superior in my no spray garden. I get several good flushes a year and very little disease. CL SDLM, on the other hand, started out as a strong grower, but then most of the major canes died, and she is slow to recover.

Another rose to consider is Mme. Alfred Carriere. She's similar to each of the others in several ways.

Robert

Florence, that's gorgeous!

I may end up getting cl CS later.
For now I decided to get bush SdlM... and I got cl Maman Cochet instead for something a little more different.

Robert, I have, and love so far, two MACs. :)

I don't recommend CLIMBING CLOTILDE SOUPERT for Southern California. This cultivar is prone to powdery mildew in dry climates. Clotilde is a very climate specific rose, needing both humidity and heat to ward off the mildew and to fully open the tightly quartered flowers. She performs best in the Old South where the summers are sultry.

A good option for you is CLIMBING LA FRANCE. The nodding pink flowers are larger and gracefully nod downwards, always a plus for a climber. The blooms are also intensely fragrant. The only disease problems this rose has is black spot, something that really isn't much of a concern in your dry Mediterranean-like climate.

I think you would also be pleased with Climbing Maman Cochet or Madame Berard (tea-noisette, 1870).

I've read that both A SHROPSHIRE LAD and CLIMBING SOUVENIR DE LA MALMAISON are poor repeaters.

Flo, I'm glad your Climbing Clotilde is doing so well. When this rose is "on" she is truly breathtaking.

Best wishes,

Patrick

Image of Madame Berard by cweathersby-NE-TX-7b/8a.
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Image of La France by Labrea-7NYC.
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I ended up getting Climbing Maman Cochet,... glad to know that it will probably work well!

but Mme Berard (what a lovely tea noisette!) and La France look lovely, too... perhaps later! I'll have to think about it. :) Thankyou Patrick!