Welcome to this ongoing message thread. Once again, the previous part of this ongoing series, It can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 12, is becoming rather long and slow to load, so we are continuing the series here.

The same guidelines apply here. Anything remotely related to zinnias is fine and, as a courtesy to readers with smaller monitors, try to keep the pictures posted no wider than 986 pixels.

This picture is 986 pixels wide, and it shows one of my current recombinant hybrid zinnias that is oddly colored, with both bicolor and scabiosa flowered characteristics.

Its coloration could be described as tan and dusty rose. Its petal tips match the color of some of the wood chips in the surrounding mulch. I almost decided to pull it up, but didn't. In previous years I have seen a few zinnias that could be described as brown or tan and they weren't really attractive either. But they are unusual, and I keep them on that basis. I'm not really trying to breed a strain of brown or tan zinnias, and yet I have a fascination for zinnias with odd colors. I guess that green zinnias also fall in that category. I continue to cross odd colors with each other and other colors, just to get new zinnia colors. I think that greens crossed with whites or yellows could produce good new shades.

ZM

for marketing purposes.. how about peach and pomegranate ...

ken

Yes, marketing is the key. Peach and pomegranate it is. Or maybe mocha and coffee. Tan and brown aren't "in" colors. I saved some seeds from that "pomegranate & mocha" zinnia today. I think most of them were selfs, so it will be interesting to see what comes of that.

I have been selecting for "spider flowered" zinnias, with long narrow petals. I'm not there yet, but have been making some incremental progress, like this one that bloomed this Fall.

I want the petals to be lots longer and thinner yet. And bicolored or tricolored spiders would be nice, too. One goal would be a strain of dark colored spiders with white, yellow, or light pink tips. (grin) And mocha tips, too. I mainly cross spiders with other near spiders, to get a variety of colors while still trying to "zero in on" the spider flowerform.

ZM

First, I wanted to give a reference to Cameron that may be useful, and that is this link to a Cornell University listing of sites that mention deer-resistant plants:

Cornell Gardening Resources-Deer Defenses

I guess as far as color goes in zinnias--"Different strokes for different folks".... I grew the Queen Red Lime
zinnias for the first time this year, and they are a dusky green rose that is safe to say, unusual--not my cup of tea for sure! But I was amazed at visitors to the garden who expressed their excitement over the flowers. I noticed in farmer's markets that people who sell cut flowers have included them in their offerings. After growing green zinnias here for several years, I actually got some zinnias with the same color through random hybrization.

I don't know how many of you have tried the new Microsoft search engine (bing.com), but I just did! Of course, I wanted to look at zinnia images. I saw a really nice flower (well, pretty much the same form as my "Extreme Roll," different color) at the University of Florida website:

University of Florida-Greenhouse Specialty Crops

Now what do you think of that? Gorgeous example! Someone is doing some zinnia breeding.....

If you go to bing.com, (this is not about zinnias, but interesting), try the "maps" option, then search your address, and choose the bird's eye view. It was quite nice for our area..

JG

That yellow Extreme Roll at the University of Florida is impressive. Either they have two of them, or there are two pictures of the same zinnia. I'm not sure they are breeding them, though, since most, if not all, of their zinnia pictures seem to represent Benary's Giants. The second picture from the left seems to be an orange Benary's Giant and, it too, has a rather rolled petal form, reminiscent of your "Loopy". Loopy was a beauty. I suspect these Florida pictures are just selections from their "greenhouse grown" Benary's Giants. I certainly hope they are breeding zinnias but, in this case, my hopes aren't too high.

I am, however, encouraged that Benary's Giants can produce some really pretty flowerforms, and I intend to grow a significant number of them to expand my gene pool. I recently planted several White Benary's Giants.

So far, by using plant growth regulators, I have been able to keep my indoor zinnias from "running away from me." I think the PGRs may be making the flower sizes smaller, though.

I think greenish zinnias in a spider flower form would be unusual, and I hope to get something like that by next Spring. My "fourth generation" indoor zinnias are starting to come into bloom now, and this was one of the first to bloom:

It was planted September 22nd as a petal seed from the breeder designated "C46" and C46 was pictured back in Part 11 on Wed, Jun 24, 09 at 10:56 and again on Thu, Jul 16, 09 at 0:55. This pictured flower bloomed in about 5 weeks from the date of planting, which is pretty fast. There is not too much similarity to the mother, except for the scabiosa influence. I'm saving it for the present time, but intend to be rather selective in what I keep indoors, due to my limited growing space. I have a bunch more "fourth generation" indoor zinnias coming into bloom in the next few days. By really pushing it with zinnias both indoors and outdoors, it might be possible to get five generations of zinnias in a twelve month period. I do enjoy zinnia gardening, both outdoors and indoors.

ZM

I really like the offspring of the scabious zinnia you are showing here. In fact, I think I like it better than the parent! It's got a really nice golden color and the curly central petals are interesting.

I'm glad you are growing the zinnias indoors--it assures all the rest of us that we will be seeing new zinnia photos throughout the winter! Looking forward to your Persian Carpet crosses, too! I believe I had an elegans-haageana hybrid this summer, and I just decided to self it rather than backcross it to another haageana, just to see if I can get viable offspring next summer.

A green cactus flower would be interesting--don't think I've ever seen one here or anywhere else. Speaking of white Benary zinnias, I grew the White Wedding zinnias this summer. They were't so tall as the typical Benaries, but the flower form was identical. I always grow a quarter oz. or more of mixed color Benary zinnias. They are a handsome flower, and I'm sure contribute a pretty strong genetic contribution to my randomly hybridized zinnias every year.

I was curious about that yellow zinnia at U. of Fla., so e-mailed the research center a question about whether they had more like it, or if seeds were available. I'm hoping they take the time to answer! It looks like they were definitely growing a lot of Benary zinnias--probably with a focus on optimizing conditions for growing flowers for cutting.

JG

I'm glad you like that last zinnia. I sort of do, too. I'm curious to see how many of those curled central petals will form. I just planted a few White Weddings a couple of days ago. My goals are for taller plants than they have, but hopefully they can contribute bushiness of the plant, as well as a good white color. Bushy plants are one of the desirable traits of the commercial scabiosa flowered strains.

I also planted a few Swizzles, for branchiness and two-tones in crosses. Of course, they are F1s, so I will get some weirdness in their crosses, and maybe a few of those apetalous females will show up. I might do some experiments with them. I wonder if other flowers, like marigolds for example, have apetalous forms.

I would be very curious to know how U of Fla responds to your email, or if they respond. In the past I have had a poor track record getting responses to unsolicited emails. I wonder if U of Fla even realize how unusual that yellow quilled zinnia is. It would be great if we could get some help from an institution like that.

I have several young Persian Carpet seedlings. I plan to plaster the better ones with pollen when they bloom.

I'm still reading in the subject area of tissue culture and micropropagation, with the idea of applying some of those techniques to my zinnias. I'll probably buy one of Dr. Carol Stiff's kitchen culture kits. More later.

ZM

One thing I've noticed about the Swizzles is that the flowers seem to last a very long time. So with the branching, you can have quite a few flowers in different stages of maturity on the same plant. For me, Swizzles don't yield a whole lot of seed. Maybe the lack of successful fertilization allows the flowers to last longer.
And, I've noticed that my limited crosses of Swizzles with the taller zinnias result in plants of short or intermediate height.

I don't get apetalous flowers often--probably one or two a year. Next time I get one, I should save the seeds from it, and try to get a strain that would consistently give rise to a good number of apetalous plants-- best to continually backcross to a known strain for that. Guess they would be good for certain crosses. You really have to keep track of your lines, though. I always get an apetalous flower showing up within the flowers coming from random crosses, so I have no idea what sort of genes it might contribute to its offspring. You would have better luck to get one of those apetalous blooms from a known strain.

I do think an interesting experiment would be compare offspring arising from the ray vs. the dics flowers of a zinnia. You've said earlier that you can see some correspondence between seed shape and leaf shape, which may have some relation to where on the flower the seed originated. Anyway, I think I will be able to do that with my Extreme Roll seeds and see if there is any relation of seed location on the flower to phenotype. Again, it may very well be a result of self- vs. less self- pollination.

I hope the U. of Fla. will respond to my note, but wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. If my curiosity gets the best of me sometime, I may give them a call...

I hope you do get a micropropagation kit. I expect you may get some good results! The farthest along I've thought about indoor growth of zinnias lately is to perhaps ask one of the local nurserymen in the area for some space in his greenhouse to start some flats in the winter. That way, if I were to be gone for a week or more, my plants wouldn't suffer too much!

I hope you get some of those Persian Carpets with the near-black and white color patterns! You will eventually, but soon, I hope, so we can see how offspring of those turn out for you!

JG

"I do think an interesting experiment would be to compare offspring arising from the ray vs. the disc flowers of a zinnia."

I have been keeping track of petal seeds and floret seeds for scabiosa based zinnias. This picture shows a petal based plant:

The pictured plant is in a 3-inch square pot, about ready for repotting in a 5-inch pot like those behind it. A couple of factors have made my fourth generation zinnias more compact and bushy. Apparently our water supply is deficient in boron, and a boron deficiency caused the initial growing tips of many of my young fourth generation zinnias to die. That happened to the zinnia above. That had the somewhat fortuitous effect of chemically pinching the plants. I have since supplemented the boron in my nutrients with diluted boric acid to help offset the boron deficiency. I don't want my zinnias to suffer nutrient deficiencies, even if there was a desirable side effect.

I am also making more extensive use of plant growth regulators to prevent my zinnia plants from growing too tall. This Summer, if an indoor zinnia grew too tall, I simply moved it outside. That option won't be open this Winter. The Topflor that I use suppresses natural gibberellin production.

The petal seeds are more likely to be crossed with some other zinnia, while the floret seeds are more likely to be selfed. Beyond that, I haven't yet noticed any differences between zinnia plants from petal seeds and those from floret seeds. That's not to say that such differences don't exist, and I or someone else may very well notice them in the future.

ZM

"I don't get apetalous flowers often--probably one or two a year. Next time I get one, I should save the seeds from it, and try to get a strain that would consistently give rise to a good number of apetalous plants-- best to continually backcross to a known strain for that."

I think that most commercial F1 hybrid zinnias have a male sterile apetalous female parent. Apparently the genetics are such that there isn't a pure 100% apetalous strain, but a significant fraction of them are apetalous, so the seed producer can hire people to chop out the non-apetalous specimens, leaving a commercial row of male sterile apetalous plants which can be next to a row of male pollen donors for bee pollination. Since we both will be growing offspring from F1 hybrids, I expect that we both will see one or more apetalous specimens next year.

Between the boron problem and my use of PGRs, a lot of my fourth generation zinnias are compact, like this specimen in a 5-inch pot:

None of these compact fourth generation zinnias has a compact parent, even though they look like they must have. I'm still learning by trial and error about using Topflor and other PGRs. One thing I didn't take into account was that the re-used growth medium that I use apparently contains some residual PGR that affects the seedlings that I repot into it. Most of my fourth generation zinnias are pretty well behaved as far as height is concerned.

ZM

This is a closeup of the bloom on that little plant above.

It seems to have strong scabiosa influence, as well as a multicolored effect from Whirligig heritage. Hybrids of hybrids are interesting because they can recombine so many different traits. And you don't feel the pressure to cross-pollinate them, because their self-pollinated seeds will give you a variety of surprises just by continuing to recombine their heterozygous genes.

ZM

I believe I remember that the apetalous flowers are the result of a number of particular alleles (hybrid) present that would make it nearly impossible to get all apetalous flowers in any one planting. But keeping the seeds of some of these probably increases the chances of getting some apetalous offspring in the next generation.

That last flower looks like a flame of sorts--with the mixed yellows, reds, and oranges. Pretty colors! And, that is a really compact plant you have there! I wonder what the potency of the hormone solution that you use is over time? I know some forms easily break down, others not so readily.

Scabious plants for me are hardly ever so bushy as the other
kinds of zinnias. When I grow them in rows in my large garden, I can always tell from a distance which are the scabious because they have less branching and leaves. It would be nice to get a bushy form.

JG

" I believe I remember that the apetalous flowers are the result of a number of particular alleles (hybrid) present that would make it nearly impossible to get all apetalous flowers in any one planting. But keeping the seeds of some of these probably increases the chances of getting some apetalous offspring in the next generation. "

I agree. It will be interesting to save seeds from any apetalous specimens that might appear next year, to see what results from them. Presumably there are several different apetalous strains in use by the various F1 hybrid zinnia seed producers.

"That last flower looks like a flame of sorts--with the mixed yellows, reds, and oranges. Pretty colors!"

As that bloom matured for the last several days, it has had a lot of color fading in the original guard petals while the scabious center filled in.

I have noticed that some zinnia colors fade quickly, while others seem to be very fade resistant. The fading is not necessarily a bad thing. The zinnia variety Exquisite fades to produce a variety of shadings, and that is considered to be a desirable feature of that cultivar.

"And, that is a really compact plant you have there! I wonder what the potency of the hormone solution that you use is over time? I know some forms easily break down, others not so readily. "

I'm wondering about that PGR potency and breaking-down-thing myself. Until this zinnia generation, my indoor zinnias tended to be under-dosed with PGR. Now I am seeing a lot of plants that look a little over-dosed. I have been re-using the medium from discarded zinnias, and I am beginning to suspect that the Topflor tends to persist for quite some time in the growing medium.

"Scabious plants for me are hardly ever so bushy as the other kinds of zinnias. When I grow them in rows in my large garden, I can always tell from a distance which are the scabious, because they have less branching and leaves. It would be nice to get a bushy form. "

Some of my scabious hybrids have had the bushiest zinnias I have ever seen, although they are somewhat tall. It is a vertical oval plant shape, but very branched. The Burpeannas have a more horizontal bushiness, but some of them have their side branches in a "candelabra" plant form, in which the side branch leaves the main stem in approximately a right angle. That resulting cantilevered structure seems to be inherently weak at the main stem joint, so that those side limbs are susceptible to breaking off in high winds. A side branch seems to be more structurally sound if it emerges from the main stem while sloping upward some. That also tends to have a thicker joint.

In my view, plant habit is an important zinnia trait, and I definitely watch for good and bad plant habits. A good bushy plant does need some room to develop properly. I still remember the picture in that old Burpee catalog of that first introduction of Burpeeana zinnias. The plant shapes were intermediate between spherical and hemispherical, but they were lined up against a wall or fence in an impressive landscaping display of a zinnia hedge with big double blooms in a medley of colors.

ZM

I agree with you about the plant habit--it's desirable to have lots of branching, but in a form that is strong and can resist wind, etc. I haven't really taken notice of my scabious hybrid F1s, but the first generation of the scabious zinnias I have obtained from many commercial sources tend collectively to be kind of sparse as branching goes. It may be that the second generation improves in that trait.

It looks like fall has truly come! All our leaves are down and it's getting rainy and chilly. The seed catalogs are starting to arrive with all their color and promise for the garden next summer. So far I see nothing new in the way of zinnias, except a form of taller Profusion Red Profusion Knee High Zinnia that comes in red as well as white.

I'm thinking I should start thinking about resistance to mildew, too, and get some of the traits associated with that (in Z. elegans or violaceae), into the garden. Thus far, I see a listing for "mildew tolerance" with Stokes zinnias, the "Sun Series," (#1436M), the online catalog link being Stokes Storefront .

I will mention more vendors as I see mildew resistance (no advertisement intended here).

JG

Fall has truly come here, too. And Winter is not too far away. We have had two large-flaked snows, which melted off within hours. Oddly, many of my outdoor zinnias have survived this lousy weather almost unscathed. I think that the explanation for that may be the Bayer Advanced All-In-One Rose & Flower Care that I treated them with. It apparently made them immune to both insects and mildew. With temperatures in the 30's and 40's and lots of cloudy days, I have no doubt that they will succumb in some way. But the longer they hang on, the better chance they have of developing some viable seed from the crosses I made toward the end of the season. I quit pollinating the outdoor zinnias about a month ago.

Your idea about looking for mildew resistance in Z. violacea is a good one. I plan to do the same thing. I grew some tetraploids last Summer to see if they might have some inherent Powdery Mildew resistance, and they didn't. I'm kind of glad of that, because I don't want to get involved in producing tetraploid strains of zinnias, at least not for the time being.

So far, my unapproved indoor use of the All-In-One has been successful for preventing both disease and insect problems, with no obvious "gotchas". I do dilute the indoor All-In-One applications to one-third strength or weaker, and I try to form a mental image of how much might be accumulating in the pots and how much might be leaching out. I'm kind of "flying by the seat of my pants" on this. But so far, so good.

For me, the fun part of breeding zinnias is that new forms show up in the recombinants. I like the flower form on this recent indoor bloom:

It has rather long narrow petals and an informal "open" flowerform that I like. It gets breeder status based on that. It reminds me a little bit of a dandelion. I would like to get a zinnia strain in a complete color range with that flowerform.

I am continuing my research and study on the subject of micropropagation by tissue culture, and I have joined the Home Tissue Culture Group. A shipment of baby food jars is on the way to me now, and I plan to purchase a tissue culture kit next month. I think that I really need to learn the tissue culture propagation of zinnias, in case a really exciting and exceptional specimen appears. (I am still waiting for those giant scabiosa-type florets to show up.) The asexual propagation of zinnias by cuttings has been a help, but it is difficult to get more than a few cuttings from a single plant. Tissue culture offers the possibility of a much higher multiplication ratio.

I continue to enjoy my indoor zinnia gardening. More later,

ZM

That is a really beautiful flower you have there! I would definitely try to get a strain of those! And I, of course, would gladly accept some seeds ;-)...I hope you can keep that one going. I like it a lot, and I'm sure many others would, too! I notice a few of the petals are forked on the end-- I always have thought that this an interesting trait, too.

Somewhere on the internet I saw (don't have reference now) that spraying a solution of baking soda on leaves would help prevent spread of mildew. Wonder if that really works?
I did use the All-in-One product as you did and found it to be very effective in keeping back the mildew. Probably an application in early September would be very protective for the rest of the season.

I look forward to following your progress on the tissue culture. Do you plan to use buds from a single plant as the explants? I joined that group sometime ago, I believe, so I could ask a question about zinnias, but didn't get back after there were no answers. I think I already had mentioned the zinnia micropropagation paper to you a while back. It may be a good starting point.

JG

I will be looking forward to sharing seeds with fellow zinnia breeders like you when my strains become more dependable. As it is, very few of my progeny resemble their seed parent and some of my seed packages have failed to produce a single "keeper". I wouldn't want to waste anyone's time or growing space on fugitives from the compost pile.

"...spraying a solution of baking soda on leaves would help prevent spread of mildew. Wonder if that really works?"

The use of baking soda as a fungicide is widely accepted. Sodium bicarbonate does inhibit the spread of mildew, and it is widely used as a home remedy for that purpose. However, the excessive use of sodium can cause some sodium phytoxicity. A better choice is potassium bicarbonate, since the potassium can actually be used by the plant and its bicarbonate is just as effective or more so than the sodium bicarbonate. Several commercial anti-mildew products are based on potassium bicarbonate, including the GreenCure® that I still frequently spritz on my indoor zinnias.

Potassium bicarbonate does have several limitations, though, that cause me to resort to Bayer Advanced All-In-One Rose & Flower Care. Potassium bicarbonate (and GreenCure) both remain water soluble on the plant, and readily wash off. They are not systemic, so you have to coat both the top and bottom surfaces of the leaf for complete protection. And zinnias grow rapidly from day to day and the new growth is not protected by a non-systemic.

"I notice a few of the petals are forked on the end-- I always have thought that this an interesting trait, too."

The petals on the specimen pictured above (code-named C69) also have a unique curved, pointed shape that I like. I do take notice of individual petal shapes.

This following is a picture of a specimen that has attracted my attention lately.

It's not particularly attractive in many regards, since it seems to be rather wild and disorganized, but it has some features that intrigue me. The picture above was of a bloom on a cutting plant, whose "donor" was code-named C65 and was first pictured back in Part 12 on Sun, Aug 16, 09 at 3:06. I have never seen a zinnia that looks quite like C65, so I have been using its pollen and taking cuttings from it. C65's flowers are a little too wild even for my taste, but they have a couple of features that really attract me. Its flowers are quite large (about 25% larger in diameter than most of my other zinnias) and its plants are strong with nice long pointed leaves. And, oddly, its stigmas are at least twice the size of most zinnia stigmas.

Zinnia C65 has a "prehistoric" look (it is the indoor "dinosaur zinnia" in our household) and I think it is possible that multiple genetic recombinations have brought some long-lost zinnia phenotypes to the surface here. I think this specimen has definite possibilities as a breeder, with its potential for creating larger zinnias with open flowerforms. And its huge stigmas make it easier to pollinate them.

ZM

" Do you plan to use buds from a single plant as the explants?"

Yes, meristematic explants seem to offer the best likelihood of successful zinnia multiplication. But I also plan to experiment with just about every possible kind of zinnia explants to see what works and what doesn't work. It would be particularly convenient if I could get shoots to form from small pieces of leaf tissue. African Violets will root from conventional leaf cuttings and, not surprisingly, they can be coaxed to produce many shoots from small pieces of leaf tissue in a tissue culture. Like I said, I plan to try a lot of different things with zinnia tissue culture.

" I think I already had mentioned the zinnia micropropagation paper to you a while back. It may be a good starting point."

Was that the Micropropagation of Zinnia chapter by M.A.L. Smith in "High-Tech and Micropropagation VI (Biotechnology in Agriculture and Forestry) (v. 6)"? That chapter is readable via Amazon's Click to Look Inside! feature. Just enter "zinnia" in the search box that appears at that link and click on the "page 296" link that comes up in the Search results. There isn't a lot of information on zinnia tissue culture protocols, but I can experiment with protocols for other composites.

This photo of the "dinosaur zinnia" (C65) shows its huge stigmas a bit better than the previous photo.

I am still repotting some of the C65 cuttings from 3-inch square pots to 5-inch square pots. My indoor zinnia gardening does keep me busy.

ZM

I wouldn't be surprised at all if your dinosaur zinnia is a polyploid of some sort with its large flower and stigmas! You will probably be able to determine that if crossings of that with your other zinnias produce little or no progeny. It will be also very interesting to see if you get progeny from selfings, and then, if so, what they are like!

My experience with tissue culture (limited to one type of plant) resulted in a good number of polyploids, and their appearance gave many of them away with their unusually large features.

Speaking of tissue culture, the paper that I was referring to was the one by Rogers, Smith, and Cowen (Euphytica 61: 217-223, 1992)-- a source of much of the information in the Micropropagation of Zinnia chapter you mentioned above. Probably the best of those results were reported in the chapter. Have you ever tried the metalarc lights?

JG

" I wouldn't be surprised at all if your dinosaur zinnia is a polyploid of some sort..."

Yikes! I never considered that C65 might be a polyploid. If it is a tetraploid, that would actually cause me to re-evaluate my negative attitude toward tetraploid zinnias. I have been crossing C65 with other breeders and other breeders with it. I may have been creating a lot of triploid zinnia seed, which, even if they germinate and grow, will almost certainly be sterile. Maybe I had better start looking for a source of colchicine in earnest. So far, the only sources that I have found for colchicine limit their sales to educational and research institutions. I could double the chromosomes of triploids to get hexaploids. I wonder if hexaploid zinnias are any good.

" Speaking of tissue culture, the paper that I was referring to was the one by Rogers, Smith, and Cowen (Euphytica 61: 217-223, 1992)"

Thanks for that comment. It encouraged me to renew my literature search for more up-to-date material, and I did find some new information. I think a significant amount of new zinnia info may be available. This article, and the references in it, are a case in point.

Influence of medium formula and silver nitrate on in vitro plant regeneration of Zinnia cultivars by Jackrit Anantasaran and Kamnoon Kanchanapoom. That article refers to Persian Carpet zinnias as "Percient Carpet", possibly due to a translation artifact from their seed source, AFM Flower Seed Co., Ltd., Thailand. Based on that article and others, I have decided to obtain a small quantity of silver nitrate for use in my tissue culture experiments with zinnias. Apparently silver nitrate neutralizes ethylene, and ethylene is an auxin with potentially undesirable effects in a tissue culture. However, I think the presence of chloride ions will precipitate the silver as silver chloride, so that is something I need to keep in mind.

" Have you ever tried the metalarc lights? "

Not yet. HID lights are bright and expensive. They are better than fluorescents for growing larger plants (like some of my big zinnias), so I haven't ruled them out as a future improvement to my indoor zinnia growing. I have purchased the Gardening Indoors with H.I.D. Lights book. However, most people use rather low light intensities for tissue culture work, so it will be a few months before I branch out to HID for my indoor gardening. My fluorescent lights are pretty bright, particularly the over-driven ones.

I continue to get "echinacea flowered" specimens in my recombinants, like this one.

I like the whitish base color of its guard petals. Sometimes white areas like that become colored as the bloom ages. But I did a lot of pollination with the first white-based zinnia that I found when I was in Maine, and that white-based effect keeps reappearing in my recombinants, which is fine with me.

ZM

Here is an interesting color that bloomed among my Benary's Giant zinnias in late October (I planted only purple, lilac and deep rose colors). The zinnias were a huge hit with the Monarch (and other) butterflies.

Still no deer damage and I have left only one clump of zinnias since we've had several frosts. The deer have been through the garden (lots of tracks) but didn't try the Benary's Giant Zinnias.

Cameron

That top Benary's Giant appears to have three different colors on its petals: magenta tips, blending to yellow, and with scarlet at the base. Very interesting, and unusual for a Benary's. Sometimes color patterns like that fade to a more solid color as the bloom ages, but they do look good in all stages. I have noticed that cool weather seems to make my outdoor zinnia colors look more intense.

I'm going to take credit for the Cornell link, and I'm glad you liked it. I spritzed my indoor zinnias with GreenCure again today. It's totally safe, and it may provide a little carbon dioxide to the plant leaves as well, although I am not sure of that. Some greenhouse growers have systems for providing extra carbon dioxide to help their plants grow faster. Anyway, I am exhaling carbon dioxide for my indoor zinnias as I type this (grin). And they, in turn, are shooting some oxygen back to me. So it's a win-win trade.

ZM

It turned out not to be a heart attack but still some serious heart artery problem and whoa, they cut my chest open, stopped my heart for half an hour, and the whole surgery went for 4 hours.

Now I recovering. Everyone including every doctors that I saw congratulated me for being alive and said how lucky I am. I am ok but a little slow now.

After I went home from the hospital and was able to move a little, I went out to see my zinnia patches. All the flowers have faded of course, so I could not keep track of the parenthood details. I did separate them in areas so at least I know what types (varities) they are from.

So for next year, I will just use some of the seeds and plant them and see what I will get... not so organized but for the first year I guess it is ok. Just having some random pollination is fun too.

And life is precious!

Dave

We are so very glad to have you back. Life is indeed precious! Your random plantings next year may very well provide some interesting zinnia results. Zinnias are full of surprises. We look forward to your comments and pictures.

ZM

Speaking of zinnias being full of surprises, sometimes when you are inspecting your zinnias very closely, you may see some little detail that is really unusual, as in this picture:

Incidentally, I am still using my wife's point-and-shoot camera, which doesn't even have screw threads on the lens to allow adding a closeup lens, so I can't take true closeups yet. This picture is just a small section cropped out of a "regular" picture, so it is a rather crude substitute for a closeup. But it does show some odd little "feelers" emerging from the bloom.

They don't look like stigmas and they aren't "chaffy scales", but they look somewhat like a cross between the two. Perhaps they are modified stigmas, or perhaps they are modified chaffy scales. Or maybe they are a new flower component. I have no idea if they have any functionality.

The odd rock-like object in the photo is just a malformed upside-down petal that apparently was trying to "get in on the act." If I had known it was going to be such a distraction in the picture, I might have removed it.

But this is the picture, warts and all. I am using this zinnia as a breeder, so I may see those strange flower elements again. They are something a zinnia can do, so some of you may also see them in your zinnias.

ZM

Dave, I hope you are healing up fast now and starting to feel more energetic. It's so good you paid attention to the warning signals you were experiencing and got the medical care that was needed. I'm sure you will be happy with the mixed zinnias you will be getting from your first generation this coming summer as I have been over the years! Now take it easy and enjoy the upcoming holidays! Look forward to seeing your next summer's flowers, and hearing from you in the meantime..

ZM, that last flower was definitely interesting with the mutations showing what you said looked like confused genetic signals ----and resulting in chaffy scales with the stalks somewhat like those found in stigmas. I've seen flowers with exagerated chaffy scales, but nothing like that! It will interesting to see if you have a somatic or hereditary mutation there. What will the offspring look like?

Cameron, your late blooming zinnia is pretty. Like other zinnia growers, I've noticed lots of times that zinnias aren't so efficient in expressing their usual combination of pigments late in the season, and you can get all sorts of interesting effects. More about deer-resistant plants-- as you probably know, there is a huge interest in growing native plants for lots of reasons. Some native plants have developed ways to protect themselves against deer. Below are several deer-resistant gardens that can be planned including native plants, if you're interested:

Deer Resistant Garden for Dry Soils
and Deer Resistant Garden for Medium Soils

JG

" It will be interesting to see if you have a somatic or hereditary mutation there. What will the offspring look like? "

I wonder what they will look like too. Those strange zinnia antennas may indeed prove to be somatic.

Occasionally a recombinant will "echo" an ancestor, like this recent specimen, which has an unusual opening phase, just like a zinnia I had last year.

It changes significantly as the bloom continues to open and develop:

I still like the ruffled look of its more mature petals, but the youthful phase reminds me of the tubular petaled zinnias that I had last year. The tubulars intrigue me, but I haven't seen any this year, possibly because I grew far fewer zinnias this year than last. Hopefully I can grow more zinnias next year.

ZM

The ruffled petals are nice on that last flower. They give it a very fancy appearance. Are the undersides of the petals really that green? They make a stunning contrast to the bright pink color on the top.

I have no flowers to show now, except those that I have dried from the summer--I may make a winter bouquet of them!

JG

Your dried zinnias seem to have retained their colors surprisingly well. What technique did you use to dry them? I have never dried zinnias for decorative use, although I have air-dried some zinnia heads for their seeds. In fact, I gathered several "undead" zinnia heads today, to save them from an expected first killing frost tonight. I put them in labeled paper bowls to air dry. Some dried zinnia green seeds turn out to be viable.

"Are the undersides of the petals really that green?"

I'm not sure of the absolute color accuracy of my wife's Kodak Z712 IS point-and-shoot from a scientific standpoint. But, yes, the undersides of the petals on that specimen were quite green, although I am not sure that is a particularly desirable thing. I would have preferred the undersides be white or pink or dark purple or something. I have seen some amazingly white undersides on other specimens. There is quite a bit of variation in the color of the backsides of petals and the "wrong sides" of scabiosa-type florets. Speaking of scabiosa types, I am fascinated by some of the strange flower forms that can recombine from the scabiosa genes, like this one, for example:

That thing reminds me a bit of a Fantasy Parrot Tulip flower. Some of its sharp-toothed petaloids have brilliant red tips. This flower looks almost scary. I am using it as a breeder just for the novelty of it. I suspect some of that particular shape is somatic rather than genetic, but it still has an effective mix of petals, petaloids, and florets. And the undersides of its petals have very little green and a fair amount of color.

I continue to be stimulated by my study of tissue culture. Lots of potential there. More later. Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

ZM

It looks like your breeding practices are leaning toward accentuated scabious characteristics with all the modified
central structures--there are lots of possibilities to get unusual and interesting new strains! That last flower was another good example.

Drying zinnias is fairly straightforward. Cut flower off at the base; place into a container like a Pyrex loaf pan after about 2 inches of silica gel has been placed down. Then, cover the flower with an inch of more of silica gel.
(You can usually add about 3 large zinnias at the same time to a loaf pan). Put the whole affair into a microwave oven and run at high power for about 4 minutes. Bring the pan out, cover with aluminum foil and allow the whole thing to come to room temperature (overnight is best). Carefully remove upper layer of silica gel, then, very carefully, remove the dried flower. Place it on a newspaper and spray lightly with hairspray to strengthen. Then, after totally dried, you can use florists' wire and tape to make a stem going up into the central part of the bottom of the flower. Zinnias dry well as long as you use a fairly "flat" zinnia, not one of the giant benaries with many petals (you could use one of these but it takes a longer drying process). The silica gel can be used over and over, and can also be redried in the microwave.

Happy Thanksgiving!

JG

Thanksgiving was a good holiday, and I have many things to be thankful for. I over-ate less excessively than usual. Thanks for your clear instructions on how to dry zinnia blooms for decorative use. I'll keep my eye open for some silica gel. I'm pretty sure I saw some in a garden center somewhere, labeled for the purpose of drying flowers.

"It looks like your breeding practices are leaning toward accentuated scabious characteristics with all the modified central structures"

Yes, although I am not exclusively focused on them, the scabiosa hybrids attract me a lot. This one is a little bit different:

Those big guard petals have a slight ruffling and rounded shape that gives them more visual substance. It's a definite breeder.

ZM

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!

JG

I've remained busy with my indoor zinnia gardening. The cuttings that I took to rescue some of my breeders from the frost have grown and done well. I have been cross pollinating them. This is a recent picture of one of those cutting plants.

I think I will take a little time out to plant a few newly hybridized zinnia seeds this Christmas Day. We are definitely having a white Christmas here, and it is snowing as I type this. More later.

ZM

The Profusions are fertile and they do come true to type. They were created by interspecific crosses between selected specimens of the 24-chromosome Z. violacea (also known as Z. elegans) and selected specimens of the 22-chromosome Z. angustifolia. The results of those crosses have 23 chromosomes and are sterile. However, that sterility problem was solved by using Colchicine to double the chromosome number, thus producing a fertile true-breeding open pollinated new species of zinnia named Z. marylandica, in honor the the University of Maryland, where much of the early research on them was done.

Actually, the first commercial Marylandicas were produced by the W. Atlee Burpee seed company, as the Pinwheels. Soon after that, the Japanese company, Sakata, introduced the Profusions. And now we have the Zaharas. I'm not sure who "invented" them; it could be Ball but I think it was PanAmerican Seed.

The Pinwheels, Profusions, and Zaharas are all Z. marylandica with 46 chromosomes, so you could potentially make all sorts of crosses between them. You might get some really interesting F1 Marylandica hybrids. The F2s are another thing. They would be anybody's guess. That mass of 46 chromosomes is rather problematic when it comes to meiosis time.

But I think you could have some real fun crossing and inter-crossing the Pinwheels, Profusions, and Zaharas. There are a lot of interesting Z. marylandica cultivars available. And, as a group, they are more resistant to diseases like Powdery Mildew. For that reason, they are very "hot" right now.

I have a personal preference for the variety of cultivars that are available in Z. violacea, but that is no reason why you shouldn't explore some new territory. We would certainly be very interested in any results that you might obtain.

ZM

Kevin : )

I gardened in Fort Worth during the late 60's, the 70's, and the early 80's and I grew a lot of zinnias during that time. Fort Worth wasn't quite Low Desert heat, but temperatures over the 100-mark were common, and it wasn't unusual for there to be long strings of days over 100. That was obviously before the time of the Profusions, but my Z. elegans seemed to thrive in the heat, as long as I kept them well watered and adequately nourished. The heat gave them hearty appetites, and I used quite a bit of foliar feeding. Mildew never appeared in the heat and blazing sun. My zinnias grew very fast in the heat. You could almost see them grow, and the only time I ever consistently got one-day germination of zinnias was in my Fort Worth garden. I wasn't aware that zinnias had a problem with Low Desert heat, and I am curious about that. I suspect that lower water requirements are what you are going for. And the Profusions may very well have a real advantage in that area. Since I haven't grown them, I can't speak to that.

"Also, I am most interested in maintaining and increasing the heat tolerance of the group, so I will only be making crosses in the summer, for the most ferocious selection pressure."

You could breed for heat tolerance in Z. violacea using that same approach. I personally think it would be a lot easier to breed the Z. violaceas than the Z. marylandicas, and that is one of the reasons why I haven't branched out to breed Marylandicas. I think the 46-chromosome thing could create some "genetic inertia". Another reason is the small size of the Marylandicas, in their flowers and their plants and even in their seeds. The Violaceas can have flowers 6 inches in diameter or more, while the Marylandica flowers are much smaller (although the Zaharas are a move toward larger flowers). The taller Violacea plants can be 5 feet high or more, while the taller Marylandicas are "knee high". If you want short plants, the Violacea cultivar Thumbelina starts blooming at 3 inches on plants that eventually reach 6 inches. Zinnita and Short Stuff are also quite low growing. The Violaceas have a lot of versatility in plant height.

However, I am not trying to talk you out of crossing Profusions and other Marylandicas. You would be the first, or one of the first people, to produce F1 hybrids in that species, and everything you achieved would be exciting. I don't think there are any commercial F1 hybrids of the Profusion type, and F1 hybrid Profusions could very well be superior to the open-pollinated Profusion seeds that are available. And the subsequent F2s would be wholly new territory.

ZM

"The difference with our climate is that we usually have about 180 straight days over 100, 30-40 days over 110, and about a week of days over 115! 95+ nights can go on for up to two months."

My point is that the low desert has another order of magnitude of heat problems compared to any other area of the country, except possibly the area downstream of Laredo, in the Rio Grande Valley. The low humidity and salty water here don't help matters, either. True heat resistance has been largely ignored by most plant breeders--probably due to ignorance of the magnitude of the difference--to the frustration of we who live in the sixth largest metropolitan area of the country, and one of the fastest growing.

Zinnias used to be a reluctant alternative to the ubiquitous Madagascar periwinkles (we call them "Vincas") in summer flowerbeds here, but were considered very high maintenance. They became even less popular as the urban heat island effect kept raising our night temperatures. When Zinnia angustifolia became more easily available, we thought "That's okay, but kind of wildflowerish." The Pinwheels and Profusions were a real revelation, as in, "Hey! These are almost as good as the 'Vincas'!" I'd rather start work with a group that I won't have to fight to keep alive over the first few generations. I'm not presently thinking of hybrids, but more on the order of color range, fully double form, medium tall growth habit, resiliance and abuse tolerance, etc. Once I get a grip on the endeavor, I might start work on Z. violacea, too. First I need to figure out where I'm going to put my "flower farm"!

Scribblin' 'n scratchin'...
Kevin : )

"The difference with our climate is that we usually have about 180 straight days over 100, 30-40 days over 110, and about a week of days over 115! 95+ nights can go on for up to two months."

That's way too hot for me. OK, you've convinced me that you have a serious heat problem. Sounds like the Marylandicas (Profusions, Pinwheels, and Zaharas) are your best bet. Fortunately, there is quite a bit to pick from, with several new Marylandicas being introduced each year. The Zaharas were used at the 2008 Summer Olympics in China.

You can accomplish a lot simply by saving seeds from your best specimens. Bees will probably give you some free hybridization anyway, and that will introduce some variations and possible surprises in your saved seeds. When you get some pictures of your "flower farm", even in its preliminary stages, share them here. We would be interested in your plans and comments.

ZM

Well, it has been a while and here we are, well into 2010. I realize that most of you are not thinking about zinnias this time of year, but you could look over those new seed catalogs looking for some new zinnia varieties to try. I notice that Burpee has Zinnia Jazzy Mix, which looks like an improved strain of Persian Carpets. I plan to order some of those.

I have been continuing my indoor zinnia project. This is one specimen that caught my interest:

It has a very neutral pastel coloration, but it is yet another variation of the scabiosa flower form. It has scabiosa flowered florets, even though the rest of its petals are rather conventional, without the usual scabiosa flowered guard petals.

Some of my first generation of 2010 zinnias are now coming into bloom indoors. This one has an unusual flower form with a lot of scabiosa influence:

I really like this one because some of its central florets are becoming petaloids and its guard petals are taking on a wild new form as well. It is one of my first breeders of 2010.

More later.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned)

Speaking of shopping for new varieties of zinnias in the seed catalogs, there are now available two fully double Z. marylandicas:

Double Zahara Cherry

Double Zahara Fire

I know the results would be sterile, but I am increasingly tempted to cross Marylandicas with Violaceas (Elegans). The crosses might get some disease resistance from the Marylandicas.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned)

I tested the links in the previous message before I posted them and they were good yesterday, but now I see that the Double Zahara links in the previous message have "timed out" and just bring you to the front door of Stokes. That's an annoying thing that Stokes does.

You can find your way to the double Zaharas by selecting US or Canadian Customer on the Stokes entry screen, then select "Flowers-Annuals" in the upper lefthand part of the screen, and then scroll to the bottom and select "Zinnias" and then scroll to the bottom of the resulting screen and select "Double Zahara".

This zinnia is blooming now under my fluorescent lights:

It has a fairly conventional flower form, but the petals are a bit narrower, slightly corrugated, and the flower is a bit more open, all characteristics that I like.

ZM

It's has been awhile..ZM, your indoor zinnias are so nice as usual...that last pink one is especially nice! I was wondering if you have started your tissue culture efforts yet?

For a good part of January, my husband and I went to Israel and Egypt..fascinating area of the world! I saw no zinnias,
but did see calendulas, petunias, lantana, and lots and lots of bougainvillea, and orange, date palm, and fig trees. In Egypt, I saw the papyrus sedge, and that inspired me to buy some seeds from T&M...don't know how they will do in our relatively short summer season, but I would like to try to make paper..if they come up, they may become house plants!

But, back to zinnias! Thank goodness, the seed catalogs have been somewhat of a salvation in light of all the snow we have had in February! I, too, have seen the new Marylandicas, and have ordered Profusion mix, yellow Profusion hybrid, and Zahara Starlight Rose (double and bigger) from HPS along with some Benaries; some scabiosas from The Cook's Garden, and some Aztec Sunset (like Persian Carpet) and Inca zinnias from Territorial (I especially liked the mixed orange flowers last year in Inca). My ordering is limited this year because I want to grow up as many seeds as possible from my last year's mixed garden as well as the attempted crosses I made!

Looking forward to more indoor zinnias by ZM...

And, I, too and not a vendor or advertiser...

JG

I really got hooked on zinnias last year (you are ALL enablers! LOL)

Ordered seeds for a few not tried last year:

ZINNIA, BENARY'S GIANT--GOLDEN YELLOW
ZINNIA, BENARY'S GIANT WINE

ZINNIA, MAGELLAN YELLOW

I ordered these, having been pleased with the white and the lilac works well in a variety of color schemes.

ZINNIA, BENARY'S GIANT--WHITE
ZINNIA, BENARY'S GIANT--LILAC

I've also received some varieties from a nursery to try for deer resistance since my Benary's came through last summer unscathed - "Cool Crayon Colors" and "Berry Basket."

Cameron

I also like soft pastel colors in zinnias. I have grown a lot of Burpee Hybrids zinnias and I have selected favorite pastel colors from them to pollinate with, and that has given me quite a few of those pastel colors in modified flower forms, like this one:

I kind of like the "toothy" petals on that one. If you haven't tried them yet, I would recommend Burpee's Burpeeana Giants and Burpee Hybrids Mix. Those Burpee zinnias have a wide range of colors in informal flower forms, and it is always suspenseful when a new bloom starts to open, to see what it will be. Incidentally, I think Benary's Giant Wine is a new color this year. I should grow some of them this Spring just to incorporate that new color in my gene pool. And to incorporate those strong stems, too.

ZM
(Not associated with any product or vendor mentioned)

"...can people recommend the best seed selling sources for a large variety of zinnias..."

Beyond Burpee's (which are my favorite), I also shop at Parks Seeds, Stokes Seeds, Johnny's Selected Seeds, Harris Seeds, and Thompson & Morgan.

I haven't purchased from them yet, but Hazzard's Wholesale Seeds has no minimum order, and they have a wide selection. I am also toying with the idea of ordering a few seeds from the British firm, Plants of Distinction, despite the fact that our currency exchange is very unfavorable to us, which makes their already high prices much higher for us. However, they do have a few unique varieties, in zinnias as well as in other flowers, so the temptation is there.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned)

I'm somewhat ruthless in my selection of breeder zinnias, so only about 5% of my zinnias get to produce seed. I left large compost piles of culled zinnias in Maine.

I don't consider any of my present seed inventory as surplus, but I wouldn't rule out trading seeds with fellow zinnia hobbyists at some time in the future. Seed trades of unique specimens could be a win-win and expand the gene pools of both traders. If you grow a large number of zinnias, you are almost certain to find some unique specimens, if you keep an eye out for them.

I don't intend to sell any seed, because that would ruin my amateur status.(grin) My zinnias are a hobby, strictly for fun.

ZM

Welcome back from your trip to Israel and Egypt. I'm a little surprised you didn't see any zinnias.

Back on November 21, 2009, you commented:

"I wouldn't be surprised at all if your dinosaur zinnia is a polyploid of some sort with its large flower and stigmas! You will probably be able to determine that if crossings of that with your other zinnias produce little or no progeny. It will be also very interesting to see if you get progeny from selfings, and then, if so, what they are like! "

I was worried about the dinosaur zinnia, but apparently good old C65 was self fertile after all, as well as crossable with other zinnias. I have gotten several big-stigma progeny from it, including this one currently in bloom.

The dinosaur zinnia also produced some interesting crosses with other zinnias. I will show a few pictures of those in subsequent messages. I am kind of busy cross pollinating this new generation that is still blooming out right now. And I've got some smaller zinnia plants that need repotting from 3-inch pots to 5-inch pots. More later.

ZM

Those giant zinnias of yours are interesting, and I'm glad they reproduce for you! One thing, for sure, it shouldn't be hard to cross them with those giant stigmas. Something that I recall from early botany courses is that there are species of flowers that have evolved in certain ways to avoid self-fertilization. One of those strategies is to have stigmas that are taller than the stamens so that it is less likely that pollen from the same flower will fall on them. Maybe your flowers are a throwback to an earlier form that followed that strategy. I can recall (maybe it was one of the Stimart papers) that the authors thought that zinnias seldom self-pollinate (we both disagreed with that one!).

Most zinnias don't have have the strange physical form you are getting..I will look forward to seeing other progeny from those giant zinnias.

JG

"Most zinnias don't have have the strange physical form you are getting..."

Some of the crosses with the dinosaur zinnia have yielded some strange forms, like this one:

Some of its petals (or petaloids) have strange tusk-like organs. I don't know about the decorative value, but I will treat these as breeders just for the novelty of it. I like different floωer forms, and they are different.

"One thing, for sure, it shouldn't be hard to cross them with those giant stigmas."

They are easy to reach. However, because they are so long, I usually support them with one finger while applying polleп. Otherwise, they move around too much. Their long thin base doesn't offer much mechanical resistance. I hadn't seen this zinnia characteristic before, or the petaloids, so maybe they are a throwback to an earlier form. I wonder what function those "tusks" might have served.

More later. I am busy modifying a fluorescent fixture to "overdrive" the bulbs for more light output, and I am a rather slow electriciaп.

ZM

The color of that last flower with yellow and red tints is so nice (warm and cheery!). I also think it is worth continuing with that line. You have an interesting mix of floral components, but in addition, it is possible that you may end up one day with a flower with all similar structures(but different than the petals of the average zinnia) that could give you an entirly new form (i.e., a flowers with all tusk-like structures).

You are getting some exciting results!

JG

"you may end up one day with a flower with ... an entirly new form"

That is my hope. That is why I look for oddities in flowerform, and treat them as breeders when I find them. This is another progeny of the "dinosaur zinnia".

It continues with the big stigs, and has long petals in a loose arrangement that gives good airflow through the floωer. These things have possibilities. I've got some re-potting to do, so ... more later.

ZM

Both the long, spaced-out petals and the super-long stigmas give that flower a very non-zinnia look. It's interesting to see all the variation you're getting! Your outdoor garden this summer should give some good results, too!

I would love to start indoor planting for setting out in May, but I think it is still a little early. So, I continue to look over all the seed catalogs coming in. It seems that the Profusions and Marylandica-type zinnias are getting a lot of attention! Like you, they are not my favorites, but I think their hardiness and flowering ability make them attractive to landscapers.

JG

I think it is still a little early to start zinnias indoors to set out in May. They would probably be blooming by that time, or at least in bud. This is a recent scabiosa flowered recombinant that I have been putting polleп on.

Aside from being a "threesie", it is a fairly conventional "marigold flowered" recombinant, but with a fairly complex ancestry, and some large leaves.

"It seems that the Profusions and Marylandica-type zinnias are getting a lot of attention!"

They sure are. New this year are a couple of fully double Marylandica varieties, Double Zahara Fire and Double Zahara Cherry. It now appears that there are numerous opportunities for making hybrids between various Marylandica cultivars. It might also be interesting to cross Marylandicas with Violaceas, despite the high likelihood that the hybrids would be sterile. The hybrids should be interesting, and might even inherit some of that famous disease resistance.

ZM

The last flower reminds me a lot of a chrysanthemum, and I always like the three-leaved plants. You have good variety in your strains.

I don't know what will happen for me this year..I am going to try and grow out last year's seeds, both from planned and unplanned crosses. There may or may not be any extraordinary flowers! So, as I said before, I did break down and buy the Benary seeds as well as a few of the new Marylandicas and various others, and will devote a few small beds to those. It's interesting to note that if anyone wants to get the Persian Carpet (haageana)zinnias, it would be wise to shop around. Some companies are asking a lot more for those than others! I bought some to add to my seeds from last year, and will try and plant some near the house where it is hot and dry, as I think they will do fine there.

JG

"I don't know what will happen for me this year...I am going to try and grow out last year's seeds, both from planned and unplanned crosses. There may or may not be any extraordinary flowers!"

There are certainly no guarantees, but I am looking forward to some pictures from you of whatever you get. There is a lot of natural variation in zinnias, and a zinnia patch can be an interesting ecological system in its own right. I enjoy studyiпg the iпsects, even the harmful ones, the butterflies and the hummiпgbirds. And those odd visitors that appear from time to time, like spiders, wasps, and ants. It's hard to photograph the butterflies because they are so "flighty", but I may spend some time attempting that.

When I gardened in Fort Worth, spotted cucumber beetles were a common pest in my zinnias. I killed one on a zinnia here last year, so we are in range of them here in Kansas. Fortunately none of the females layed eggs on my zinnia floωers here yet, and I hope they don't. In Fort Worth I observed some damage from the beetles chewing petals and their larva eatiпg into the seedheads. Have you noticed Spotted Cucumber Beetles on your zinnias? At least (knock on wood) we don't have a problem with Japanese Beetles here. The JBs were a major annoyance in Maine.

I took this photo today of one of my newly blooming scabiosa based echinacea flowered recombinants.

It is very similar to a specimen I had last year in the outside gardeп. More later.

ZM

That scabiosa is a beauty! Did you receive the latest edition of the T&M catalog this past week? On the cover were "Candy Cane Mixed" scabious zinnias--and they made a very colorful front page photo!!

I haven't had the cucumber beetles on my zinnias. The only
things that bother my zinnias are Japanese beetles, the finches (pulling out seeds), and late in the season, mildew. I guess that's one of the many reasons I like zinnias so much...they have so few problems! And the Japanesse beetles usually gang up on certain zinnias and not on others, so they could be a lot worse. They are a disaster for roses as well as a particular apple tree I have that has fruit with red flesh.

JG

Burpee's Candy Cane:
http://www.burpee.com/product/annual+flowers/zinnias/zinnia+candy+cane+mix++-+1+pkt.+50+seeds.do?search=basic&keyword=zinnia&sortby=newArrivals&page=2

Thompson & Morgan's Candy Cane:
http://www.tmseeds.com/product/Zinnia_elegans_seeds_Candy_Cane_Mixed/Half_Hardy_Seeds

They always find ways to confuse us.

You are very observant. I think the T&M catalog may have mislabeled their new cover zinnias. The first time I saw this new cμltivar of scabiosa flowered zinnias was in the Park's 2009 catalog, where it was labeled as Candy Mix. I think that is the intended name of the cμltivar. It replaced the cμltivar that Parks had that was called Pastel Scabious Flowered zinnias.

When T&M picked it up they called it Candy Cane, apparently unaware that there was already a Candy Cane zinnia cμltivar -- the striped one that you are familiar with. Hopefully T&M's mistake will not cause anyone any harm. Regardless of what they are called, the Candy scabious zinnias look pretty good.

I think the Park's picture may do a better job of depicting the variation in floωer form that can be expected.

Park's picture (linked above) shows some variation in guard petals and some singles, which is probably a more realistic depiction of what you will get. The Candy zinnias on T&M's cover look very "hand picked".

ZM

"Did you receive the latest edition of the T&M catalog this past week?"

I received it just today. The cover looks fantastic, although see my response about this to Dave. I definitely should plaηt some of those Candy Mixed scabiosa flowered zinnias. Actually, I bought some from Park's last year, but haven't planted them yet. Candy Mix looks like a good addition to my gene pοοl. Some of my currently blooming recombinants resemble some of the Candy Mix specimens in the picture in Park's catalog. This is a picture of one.

It's actually a recombinant, so its guard petals are a little off-type. But I like it, and am cross pollinating it with other scabiosa types, as well as the "dinosaur clan".

I too have had problems with seed-eating birds eatiηg some of my outdoor zinnia seeds. I now use the "zinnia nets" to help prevent that. Sorry to hear that you have JBs. Hopefully you don't have black flies. The black flies were my least favorite thing about Maine. More later.

ZM

I grew some Parks Candy Mix last summer of 2009, and it's true that all of the flowers didn't look like the cover of T&M, but a good fraction of the flowers had very pretty rich shades of pink, red, and lavender and were what I would call "carnation-flowered." I think they were the best scabiosas of any I've grown and a vast improvement over the first scabiosas Park offered!

Here are some of the examples that I liked:

Just remember, many of the flowers are more simple in form!

Yesterday, I plowed up my gardens, and poppy, radish, and kohlrobi seeds were planted. Probably I'll start some zinnia seeds in indoor flats in mid-April--some of those are offspring of those I've crossed. Can't wait!!

JG

Your Candy Mix specimens are quite good, and I would treat all of them as breeders. I should start my Candy Mix seeds soon. This is a recent picture of one of my scabiosa-derived recombinants:

Its guard petals show quite a bit of modification. Makes me wonder if a zinnia could turn into a tμlip. Not really.

As I work more with scabiosa flowered zinnias and their hybrids, I am noticing that there are several different forms. The differences have direct bearing on how I use them in my breeding prοgram.

Sometimes the florets are just modified petals with accessible fertile stigmas. I have been referring to those as marigold flowered and I think you may be referring to those as carnatiοn flowered. Those are relatively easy to pollinate because of the accessibility of their stigmas and they are interesting because their petal shapes are usually unusual.

There are also the colored floret scabiosa flowered zinnias, in which there is no obvious pοllen and no accessible stigmas. Those florets can contain both anthers with pοllen and a stigma. Sometimes the anthers are not functional and don't bear pοllen, or at least not viable pοllen. And sometimes the internal anthers are vestigial.

Sometimes the floret stigmas are receptive, and sometimes they even extend high enough in the floret to be accessible. In that case, you can αpply pοllen to them and create hybrid seeds from them.

Sometimes the floret stigma does not extend beyond the floret, but in that case you can sometimes tear the florets open to expose those stigmas and pollinate them anyway.

Sometimes the anthers in the floret stigmas are fully functional and bear viable pοllen. When I recognize that a scabi specimen is of that type, I will pick some of the fresh florets to open them for their pοllen to use it on other zinnias.

Apparently some scabi florets have viable internal pοllen and the stigma grows to come in contact with the anthers and self fεrtilize to produce selfed floret seeds.

Apparently the timing of some florets is such that the stigma grows through the anthers before they release their pοllen and those stigmas are receptive to external pοllen. Sometimes those stigmas lengthen enough to extend out of the floret to become accessible. Sometimes they don't extend that far, but the floret can be opened to pollinate the floret stigma with external pοllen.

I'm finding that I am cross pollinating my scabi specimens in several ways, by gathering florets for pοllen and by opening florets to αpply pοllen to the internal stigmas. This continues to be a leαrning process for me. More later.

ZM

Thanks for the more detailed notes on crossing scabious plants. Last year when I first tried it, some of the best flowers seemed to me to have no stamens or stigmas at all, but on close inspection (sometimes when dissecting the central florets), I found that they did. The seeds derived from the parts of the flowers containing stamens are usually thicker than those from the strictly female parts--instead of being flat, they are grain-like, resembling wheat or rice seeds. I don't think I've ever received those thicker seeds in a commercial mix. Maybe because so many of the commercial zinnias seeds are (hopefully) hybrids, eliminating those thicker seeds is one measure of eliminating plants that may have selfed.

I've gotten some flowers with upturned petals like in the picture you've just shown. I guess they could be selected for, to produce a whole new strain!!

JG

"The seeds derived from the parts of the flowers containing stamens are usually thicker than those from the strictly female parts--instead of being flat, they are grain-like, resembling wheat or rice seeds. I don't think I've ever received those thicker seeds in a commercial mix."

Come to think of it, I don't think I have seen any of those odd floret seeds in my commercial seed packets either. It's possible that the automatic seed cleaning machines reject them as foreign matter. I have seen some of the flattish floret seeds in seed packets, but they are shaped more like the usual petal seeds.

I have seen some really unusual floret seeds in my saved seedheads. Some are very dark or even black in color. Some have strange torpedo shapes or bullet shapes, sometimes with a triangular cross section. Perhaps those unusual seeds will produce unusual zinnias. I have noticed that there is some correlation between seed shape and petal shape. Long, narrow zinnia seeds do seem to produce long narrow petals.

When I am saving seed from a scabiosa-derived hybrid, I usually save the petal seeds and floret seeds separately. Presumably there is a higher probability that the petal seeds have been cross pollinated and that the floret seeds are selfed. Of course, there could be exceptions to that.

ZM

JG,

"I've gotten some flowers with upturned petals like in the picture you've just shown. I guess they could be selected for, to produce a whole new strain!!"

I think they could be selected into a whole new strain. I see them fairly frequently, to one degree or another. This recent specimen has some upsloped tendencies:

My personal preferences is for zinnia flower forms that have the older petals angled downward and the newer petals angled upward, for a deeper flower. But I have quit arbitrarily discarding flowers that have up-sloped petals.

I have started germinating a few zinnia seeds for an early set-out into the outdoors. I may be jumping the gun but, worst case, I can just repot them and set them out in full bloom.

ZM

The central florets of that last flower are interesting as they are fairly well-sized and have a contrasting color to the rays. A flower with nothing but those central florets would look somewhat like a gomphrena!

I've got some perennial seeds started indoors, but some selected zinnia seeds have to wait maybe two more weeks for early starting indoors.. We've got very nice weather here, and I've plowed up my gardens and now have to clear some of the perennial beds of weeds. Won't be long now!!

JG

JG,

"A flower with nothing but those central florets would look somewhat like a gomphrena!"

I know for certain that zinnias "can do that", although I haven't had such a specimen myself. One of the participants at Dave's Garden showed a picture of one a few years ago. I prevailed upon her to send me some seedheads from it, but unfortunately there were no viable seeds in them. It wasn't obvious from the posted picture, but the seedheads were quite small, less than an inch in diameter. But, as you have suggested, the absence of guard petals does give the zinnia flower a unique look, like a Globe Amaranth.

I definitely will remain on the lookout for any scabiosa zinnia without guard petals. I think that would make a great strain, particularly if the flower size could be reasonably large. This specimen shows that there can be more than a single row of guard petals.

I am encouraged that the scabiosa-influenced zinnia flower form can have a reasonably wide variety of configurations. More later.

ZM

I've seen fuller scabious zinnias, too. The one below is the offspring of a zinnia that was totally different than itself:

This week, I am going to try and start some zinnia seeds resulting from some crosses I made.

JG

That red one looks like a good potential breeder, because of the multiple rows of guard petals. This current specimen has about three rows of guard petals:

The guard petals in this one are also somewhat modified, with some "toothiness" and some ruffling. Like most of my current indoor zinnias, it is a recombinant that combines genes from many different types, because it is a cross between two hybrids-of-hybrids.

It seems rather like Spring here, so there is temptation to set a few zinnias outside to see what will happen to them. I also have several seedlings coming along and they should bloom in a few weeks. More later.

ZM

The pink flower you're showing is very pretty--a combination of good color and interesting form--hope you get more!

I am going to start a flat this evening of some of my home-grown seeds along woth some tomatoes. I can see how you would be tempted to to set some plants out! We, too, have absolutely beautiful weather here--almost all the trees that can be, are in flower, along with tulips, daffodils, and the greenest grass you could imagine. Beautiful time of year!

JG

We are in the process of moving from this rental home in Wellsville, Kansas to a rental home in a rural area north of Ottawa, Kansas (about 25 miles from here.) Since it isn't far, we will be moving most of our stuff ourselves, so I will be "out of pocket" for a few weeks. I plan to raise zinnias at the new place, continuing my hobby there.

More later (possibly several weeks later, because we don't have an Internet connection at the Ottawa place yet). Happy zinnia growing, you all. Feel free to post in my absence.

ZM

We've been missing your posts lately! Hope all goes well with the move, and that you will have some nice sunny outdoor growing space for your flowers! Soon we will be sharing some summer zinnia photos!

JG

JG, what kind of temperature are we looking at before we can start zinnia outdoor? We have past the last frost date (4/15) here in SE Michigan, but I wonder if I have to wait until the weather warms up more.

With the forecast like shown in the link for the next 10 days, do you think I can sow my zinnias now? TIA!

I would wait until May 20 as it will take warmer soil temperatures to germinate your seeds, and by then you will have had several warmer days. At this point, a few days' difference in time doesn't make a huge difference on how fast you get flowers! Looking forward to your results this year!!

JG

The move is progressing well. Apparently we aren't going to have to rent a truck because the sofa that I was concerned about fit totally inside our minivan once we removed the back four seats. Other surprising successes in the minivan were our beds, my shredder-chipper, and my tiller. I have tilled several flower beds in some nice sunny growing space, and transplanted a few zinnias into one bed. Our freakish cool weather has kept the soil too cool for dependable outdoor zinnia sowing yet, but I probably will plant some next week.

My computer system is still here in Wellsville, but we are supposed to get a Hughes Net connection next week in our Ottawa place, so I expect to move my computer setup then.

ZM

"...will you have more planting space in the rural area?"

I will have considerably more planting space, so I expect my zinnia hobby to accelerate in the new location. I will also do some vegetable gardening, including tomatoes and eggplants. I'm even going to try growing some sweet corn, although that may turn out to be just feeding the wildlife. But hopefully the wildlife won't be a problem for my zinnias.

ZM

This year I have a larger protion of my gardens dedicated to zinnias and from my plantings it would seem that I'm focusing more on the tetraploid State Fair descendents for my grow out. I was very intrigued by the color variation revealed last year, so now will try to possibly expand the flower form....a real challenge! I'm coming to the realization that my desire to hybridize is very much challenged by the requirement for travel with work, so will probably have much less frustration by just selecting plants/flowers for the next growouts. I may try to tip the scale in my favor periodically by dabbing pollen!

Along with my growouts, I have a small row of Big Tetra growing for additional resources.... I'm looking for a fun year. I've got a few plants now that are beginning to show color in the center of their first buds.

ZM, sounds like the move will enhance your projects, so look forward to following your progress! - Arlan

I agree with you that the flower form in the State Fair tetras is a bit of a challenge. Most of mine are also spooned to some extent with a configuration that is not exciting. I have seen a few that stray from this norm and I'm hoping to maybe segregate some of these as a starting point. I had a Big Tetra last year that was a step toward the cactus look....but I failed to save seed. Gives me some hope though!

What really has my curiosity is the vast range of color shades in the palette I've seen in these State Fair descendents. Having four copies of the various genetic modifiers would seem to potentially give many more possible combinations and a resulting greater range of visible color variation, but also present more of a challenge in stabilizing any desireable combinations.

I hadn't thought much about triploids, but it would seem that one would need very inbred, homozygous lines on each side to create something usefully consistent, much like the parents used in diploid hybrids. Especially since the resulting generation would probably be sterile and terminal as you stated. The challenge here would be creating the homozygous tetraploid line....

My zinnia plants are now just starting to flower, so the next few weeks will be the "reveal". Hopefully I'll have something interesting to share! The first ones are pretty - ho hum.

I can't say that I've observed a difference in suseptability to powdery mildew between my State Fairs and the diploids I've raised. It has seemed that for some reason this year I have lost a few more plants than usual to unknown sudden failure/death. By not coddling or spraying my plants, hopefully some resistence to the the local diseases, pests and environmental elements will take place over time. ...this could be wishful thinking! - Arlan

Hi Arlan,

" Having four copies of the various genetic modifiers would seem to potentially give many more possible combinations and a resulting greater range of visible color variation, ..."

That's a good point. I haven't grown enough tetra zinnias to observe the greater possible range of color variations in actual practice, but the tetra genetic structure may have some surprises and advantages. This is a picture of one of my Burpee Tetras from last year (it later developed mildew in a somewhat shady location):

It had a kind of delicate orange color, with typical "spoonish" petals, but there might be dozens of different oranges in the tetra zinnia color spectrum.

" By not coddling or spraying my plants, hopefully some resistance to the the local diseases, pests and environmental elements will take place over time..."

I don't think that is wishful thinking at all. Just your personal selections, coupled with natural selection, could make a big difference in a few generations.

ZM

Good to see you all planning the upcomng season! ZM, I'm glad you have lots of outdoor space! Arlan, look forward to seeing your tetraploid progeny! And Dave, looking forward to your first F1 offspring!

I've got a number of zinnia rows planted, and still have a number more to do. We have silver maple trees, and their seedlings are loving the plowed soil I prepared for the zinnias! I am really surprised to see a number of (what I think) are zinnia volunteers coming up from last year. To me the leaves most resemble those of the haageanas, and I am anxious to see what these little plants turn out to be!

Today is very hot and humid, but I am hoping to get the main plot planted by the end of the day.

More later....

JG

[IMG]http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/atenkley/Flowers/Zinnia/2010/Big Tetra/BigTetra05252010002a850.jpg[/IMG]

JG, I've had a few volunteers this year also...both haageana and violacea. I'm anxious to see the haageanas as I did not plan well and ran out of room to plant them this year.

Arlan

Arlan

That's a beauty you have there with all the colors....it's
true, you have more genes to work with..breeding may be a real challenge! I'm looking forward to more of what you will see!

I guess I was surprised with the zinnia volunteers--first because it's the first time I've ever observed them, but also, we had a fairly cold winter, and I really didn't think the seeds would survive the cold outdoors! You're in a much warmer climate, I think (am jealous of your longer season!).

JG

Arlan,

Thanks for posting that picture. That Burpee Big Tetra flower looks very "un-tetra-like" and is very encouraging relevent to the diversity possible in the tetra "format". I have been seriously considering re-visiting the idea of crossing tetras with diploids to produce triploid zinnias. I'm definitely going to plant some Burpee Big Tetras this year, with the intent of selecting out some good tetra breeding stock.

ZM

I continue to be encouraged by the Big Tetra plants that come into bloom. This has been a vivid reminder that my 3rd generation State Fair grow out is based upon a very narrow subset of tetraploid types available. Although I have selected beautiful colors in these State Fairs, the variation on type is centered narrowly on a very common form.

In subsequent posts I'll share some of the other Big Tetras in my garden. This is a close up of one that shows some of the beautiful colors being revealed.....complete with wildlife!

Arlan

Arlan,

That's a great closeup. Ants seem to like zinnias. That one in your picture may be just drinking some nectar. However, in past years I have suspected ants of being aphid herders. In Maine I suspected that ants were creating dens at the bases of many of my zinnia plants for the purpose of creating subterranean chambers with access to the roots of my zinnias. I suspected that they might have aphids in those chambers. I should have dug down by one of my zinnias to confirm that.

However, I have seen confirmed above ground ants herding aphids on the foliage and blooms of my zinnias. I've never been too worried about aphids on my outside zinnias, but they can be a real problem on indoor zinnias.

I look forward to more pictures of your newly blooming Big Tetras.

ZM

I didn't get a chance to download the pictures until this evening and after viewing them something struck me. These elongated buds look a lot like those on the Z. haageana Persian Carpets and tetrapolid Old Mexicos.....complete with the lack of the black edging found on the sepals of Z. violacea buds. The plant is of larger stature than Persian Carpets and smaller than most of the State Fairs. I did have Persian Carpets and a few Old Mexico plants growing last year, but quite a distance from the parent of this plant. Could it be....... ?!

I know there were days last year where I quite haphazardly dabbed pollen...but I don't specifically remember trying this cross.

Here is a not too clear picture of the side bud flower.

And the terminal bud:

Another side bud near the ground and complete with sand grains:

This is a comparison shot of the plant next to a couple small sized flowering plants and the usual sized State Fairs. All plants in this row are siblings from the same flower head.

I'll be watching this plant closely, particularly to see if the terminal bud has a more normal flower form. I'll study the open flower carefully also to see if it has both male and female flower parts, and ensure it gets selfed if at all possible. Could just be a fluke, but those flower buds really threw me this evening....

As a side note, here is the 2009 parent flower. I saved seed because of the unusual curling of the petals. None of the 2010 plants have this.

Arlan

Arlan,

That side flower bud is most unusual. Not many stigmas to work with, but I would try pollinating it with something to hopefully get a few seeds. That would be most remarkable if you have created an interspecific tetraploid hybrid. If so, the recombinants could be almost anything.

ZM

I've tempered my speculation a bit this morning as I found another plant in another row that looks even more like a Z. haageana. It has not flowered yet, but the buds have the same characteristics and are also without the black edging on the sepals. It shares a common grandparent with the yellow flowered plant so this all could be some sort of recombination of genes. In looking around, I can find other plants, definitely Z. violacea, that do not have the black edged sepals, but they do have the spherical buds.

I pollinated the two stigmas this morning. It also looks like the terminal bud may have a normal flower form.

Here is another unusual flower I found amongst the State Fair descendents. It is almost like it was splashed with acid rain or something! I must say I have not seen this before so will watch and see if subsequesnt flowers share this color distribution pattern. This pattern is different from the Candy Canes. I was thinking that it may be a virus or something, though the plant looks healthy enough.

Arlan

That mottled specimen is marvelous. I definitely would treat that as a breeder, selfing it and using its pollen on other likely females. As you say, that color pattern is different from the stripes and spots that appear on Candy Cane and Peppermint zinnias.

ZM

Love that spotted zinnia! It will be very interesting to see if that trait can be inherited!! Also if other flowers on the same plant are similar! Nonetheless, the seeds from that flower could give you some interesting progeny!

JG

The mottled flower is definitely a breeder for me. I've been selfing it, though these efforts have been hampered by daily thunderstorms....

I'll share a few other discoveries amongst the State Fair growout. This flower I discovered this morning. It seems that the first whirl of petals were abnormal with the exagerated tube. I know this is not that unusual as each of you have found similar examples. This is an interesting combination with normal petals.....

I have also confirmed that the curly tipped petals has a genetic component. I found this last night among the descendents of the earlier posted parent. It opened later than its siblings so I had initially thought that I had no repeat. This example is a semi-double where the parent was a single. This form is more of a novelty than anything else, as the effect is to create a smaller visual impact. It looks to have a bit of color to the emerging petals.

On the other topic, the terminal bud in the plant with the small yellow side flower is slowly developing and sure looks to be a more normally structured flower. We'll see....

ZM, I have not forgotten your request for pictures of the Big Tetra flowers. I may post a link to a photo album or something. I have 30 plants in that row and I'll show each flower so you can get a feel of what I got out of the package. I'm pretty pleased actually! - Arlan

Arlan,

It's great news that your curled petal zinnia successfully transmitted the characteristic. It is even greater news that the progeny looks better than the parent. I think that curled petal effect is worthy of being converted into a strain of curled petal zinnias.

It's good that you also got a specimen with some tubular petals. That effect has possibilities. In the past, I have had several "tubular" mutants, and this is a picture of one.

That specimen reminded me of a calla lily. I used to think that the tubular zinnia flower form was doomed to fail to propagate in an open-pollinated environment, and that you would need to split the petals to pollinate the concealed stigmas. However, in several tubular specimens I found anthers in the tubes with the concealed stigmas, so I think there is hope for the tubular flowerform. I will definitely be on the lookout for tubular petals, and use them as breeders, particularly with themselves or other tubulars, if I have any at that time.

ZM

Your "Calla Lily" zinnia looks like it also was developing more mormal petals after the first whirl. Do you remember that as the case? It also definitely shows the contrast of the under-petal color on the tube. I'll need to check mine to see if the underside of the petals is the typical different color.

Interesting observationon the potential fertility of this form...! - Arlan

Arlan,

Your Burpee's Big Tetra gallery is most interesting, and contains several specimens that could be considered to be cactus flowered. It shows more diversity in flower form than I had previously thought was possible in tetra Z. violaceas.

You are right that the tubular petals seem to occupy just the first row of petals. The tubulars in this specimen were almost not noticeable.

However, it is possible for all of the petals to be tubular. A few years ago, a participant in Dave's Garden showed a picture of a zinnia specimen that had tubular petals exclusively. All of its flowers had that appearance. As I recall, he referred to the mutation as "bugle flowered" because the individual petals looked like little bugles. I requested a few seeds, but I never heard back from him. I don't know if he saved seeds from it or if it had viable seeds, but at least that form is possible. I just haven't had such a specimen yet. Hope I do.

ZM

The second plant also opened its first flower today and it is just a bit darker yellow with petals of unusual shape and at this point looks to not be fertile.

I still am not sure what I have here as the buds and flowers very much favor the Persian Carpet type, but the leaves on these plants are definitely larger and wider (32mm wide) than any Persian Carpet (19mm wide) volunteers I have growing. One reason I think they may be hybrids is the uniformity of flower color.....as I don't know that I have ever had two Persian Carpet/Old Mexico plants with the same uniform color growing at the same time! One other possibility is that they both are volunteer Persian Carpets from the same plant, just happening to be growing in my rows, far removed from where I grew Persian Carpets last year. Hopefully one flower will develop fertility, however, if the original pollen source was Persian Carpet and the seed parent a State Fair, these plants would be triploid and probably not fertile. I did have the tetraploid Old Mexico growing later in the season.... which would have a better chance at producing a fertile plant if it was the pollen source.

Arlan

It's nothing but massive weeding for me now--most, if not all, zinnias have been planted. I have a number of rows with plants that are about three inches tall, and many more where the zinnias are just now germinating. Happily, it looks like I will have a number of offspring both from the selfed "July Bonnet (F1),"

and the selfed "Extreme Roll,"

Wonder how the offspring will look?

I have many volunteers in several patches. This is the first year I have ever had zinnia volunteers. Maybe it is because we had an extended period of time with snow on the ground, and freezing and thawing cycles were reduced for the winter, and possibly, this was easier on the seeds. Anyway, they are starting to bloom, and thus far, they are all haageanas.

JG

Arlan,

Those odd little yellow zinnia flowers are completely unprecedented. It looks like you may have obtained an interspecific cross of two tetraploid zinnias. I am hoping that they will produce viable seeds and we can see what might be produced by their tetraploid recombination.

JG,

Likewise, I can't wait to see if you get progeny from "July Bonnet" and "Extreme Roll". I've been so busy with our recent move and garden making in this new place that only just today did I prepare a seedbed and plant some hybrid zinnia seeds. I should be cross pollinating among them in a couple of months -- maybe less.

Well, we are well past the 100-message mark here in Part 13, so I have started us anew in It can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 14. See you all over there. And keep those pictures coming.

ZM